Universal Healthcare is Wonderful and Will Ensure Better Health care for everyone

[hnibos]

No.

[redbreegull]

did anyone else think I was saying that starla's sources were lying, because please, come forth and tell me. Also, tell every college professor and high school english teacher and journalist and court of law far and wide, it is NOT OK to say anecdotal evidence is a bad way to support an argument because that literally means you are CALLING THE SOURCES LIARS

[hnibos]

But if there is a negative one it doesn't invalidate everything.

[Starla]

Originally Posted by hnibos

If there are more people benefiting from it than not, than fuck it, it's better than the status quo.

It doesn't seem that more people are benefiting from it so far, with so many people losing wages and the health insurance that they already had. The only way to know if this is going to benefit anyone in the long run is to see where millions of people stand in a year or so.

[hnibos]

Originally Posted by Starla

The only way to know if this is going to benefit anyone in the long run is to see where millions of people stand in a year or so.

Fair enough, but what makes you say that it doesn't "seem that way"?

[redbreegull]

try in ten years.

policies take many years for their full effects to be felt

of course obamacare will have generated 200 billion dollars in revenue then so at least they'll be off that talking point

[hnibos]

Hopefully in ten years Obamacare is no longer in effect because better healthcare policy.

[redbreegull]

well I'm not holding my breath but yeah

the only way that happens is that the democrats move to the left and elect a more aggressive mover and shaker after clinton in conjunction with the republicans continuing to spiral into oblivion

[Order 66]

problem is there's such a large misinformation campaign against "obamacare" that even if it was a runaway success it'll probably be an albatross against democrats' neck for years. probably won't be fatal but it's always going to be a punching bag. and the irony is when/if republicans get back in power they'll probably leave it alone for the most part

[Trotskilicious]

Originally Posted by Starla

I thought he went to Africa. Didn't he tell you that going to Africa would cure your depression?

yes because travelling opens your mind

everyone who i've heard say this is a closed minded know it all

[redbreegull]

comparable democratic programs were demonized the same way in the past. new deal components, medicare, medicaid, you name it. socialism fascism blah blah yawn. none of it hurt the liberals in the long run because bottom line is the biggest opponents are those with money bags to lose, and regular people will forget about it once it doesn't destroy the country.

the dems definitely have done a beyond piss poor job of defending the law, no argument there.

also, the country is much more split ideologically now than at any point in the past, at least as far back as our parents can remember I think. they aren't convincing anyone new that obamacare is evil. they are just reinforcing that belief in the 40 something % of americans who thought so from day one. the number of sway-able minds is very small. most "independents" are republicans who don't want to register as such. so.

[Trotskilicious]

Originally Posted by hnibos

My friend sent me a text bitching about how she doesnt have insurance anymore. It was because the company she worked for was not willing to provide her the insurance she had before. NOW she has to pay 50 dollars more a month and she actually has better coverage now and can totally afford it. Here's some anecdotal evidence I'm sure you'll ignore because Obama and shape shifting lizards.

this is funny though i mean most americans assume that "taxes" take off the biggest chunk of their income on the pay stub when the correct answer was "heath insurance"

[redbreegull]

Originally Posted by Trotskilicious

yes because travelling opens your mind

everyone who i've heard say this is a closed minded know it all

yeah but you are miserable (or at least you say so), so you can't really know why things make others happy can you

[Trotskilicious]

Originally Posted by hnibos

My point is that personal accounts about the misery of Obamacare is fucking pointless because there are other people really benefiting from it and vice versa. Maybe there are more, I don't fucking know. We still don't have single payer, we're still bombing the shit out of other countries, we still have a war on drugs, but at least a mormon isn't leading the country. What kind I say, I'm an optimist.

and the capitalist slave masters cull the wheat from the chaff and let the proletarian feast on the scraps

[Trotskilicious]

rbg i think you're dumb and i have you on ignore

[redbreegull]

that's ok, I understand it is very difficult for you to not be so fucking intent on telling everyone why they have no right to be happy. it is extremely immature and obnoxious but the only reason it pisses me off so much is because I see those traits in myself and loathe them.

[Trotskilicious]

I KNOW YOU ARE BUT WHAT AM I NEYERRR

[Future Boy]

Originally Posted by redbreegull

I'm so glad we have you and futureboy here to be inane dickbags to people you don't like

But I love you all.

Originally Posted by hnibos

If there are more people benefiting from it than not, than fuck it, it's better than the status quo.

no it isnt, quiet you

Originally Posted by hnibos

Hopefully in ten years Obamacare is no longer in effect because better healthcare policy.

ahahahaha

Originally Posted by redbreegull

also, the country is much more split ideologically now than at any point in the past, at least as far back as our parents can remember I think. they aren't convincing anyone new that obamacare is evil. they are just reinforcing that belief in the 40 something % of americans who thought so from day one. the number of sway-able minds is very small. most "independents" are republicans who don't want to register as such. so.

Oh jesus, this is such bullshit. The public option, for example, had majority public support even after the rise of the teaparty. The middle still decides everything, but in order to convince them dems have to fucking try, instead of pushing the pathetic politics is the art of the possible bullshit loser mentality stupidity.

[Trotskilicious]

yeah i was pretty sure that a wildly unpopular president just got re-elected because the republican party represents older white men and that's about it

[Trotskilicious]

UNITYPONY

[Future Boy]

Here guys, here's a bunch of liars in the press, it took a few minutes

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_2607112.html

http://news.investors.com/politics-o...hours-jobs.htm

http://www.azfamily.com/news/health/...225107302.html

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...void-obamacare

and this just because I found it interesting
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/1...ef=mostpopular

I didnt read any of those or politifact them, they're all probably full of shit anyway

[Starla]

Originally Posted by Future Boy

and this just because I found it interesting
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/1...ef=mostpopular

I didnt read any of those or politifact them, they're all probably full of shit anyway

That's pretty cool.

[Future Boy]

its probably just an isolated incident starla, we shouldnt put our faith in those cadavers

[Future Boy]

but i know right, i thought so

[Trotskilicious]

i liked teh genetic modification slide show teh best some dumb butts couldn't see the damn ligament and didn' tknow they ndamed it so whatr obama fory ou

[Future Boy]

please Trots, we're trying to have a discussion here

[Starla]

lol what's sad is that it didn't happen in America.

[MyOneAndOnly]

I'm guessing this is one of those cases Starla would have seen on Fox and then gone off to rant about... Of course, like all the others is not based in fact.

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013...macare-policy/

Sundby’s story first gained national attention after she penned an op-ed in the Wall Street Journal on Monday, arguing that Obamacare would cost her more and force her to abandon her cancer doctors. Her high deductible individual health care policy from United Healthcare (called PacifiCare in California) had paid $1.2 million to keep her alive and “never once questioned any treatment or procedure” until earlier this year. In May, the company announced that it would be canceling insurance policies for its 8,000 enrollees and leaving the California market altogether. “Over the years, it has become more difficult to administer these plans in a cost-effective way for our members,” UnitedHealth spokeswoman Cheryl Randolph explained, suggesting that the company had long struggled to compete with insurers like Anthem Blue Cross, Blue Shield of California and Kaiser Permanente, who control more than 80 percent of the individual market.

Its exit left Sundby in a lurch. During an appearance on Fox News on Wednesday, she described her old catastrophic policy as “fabulous” and “fantastic,” in part because it paid for treatment by both Stanford and UC San Diego doctors. But the policy also came at a high cost. The AARP reported last year in a profile of Sundby’s fight against cancer that the family spent “tens of thousands of dollars” on treatment beyond the cost of coverage. “The results, financially, were ‘traumatic,’” AARP quotes her husband Dale as saying. “But we are, as a family, willing to go to the end, to spend whatever it takes. That’s what vows and commitments are all about.”

And so when ThinkProgress estimated the cost of a high-deductible policy offered by PacifiCare and then compared that plan to a policy in the California exchange, we found that the family would pay slightly less and benefit from a whole host of new consumer protections.

[Starla]

If you get to believe that, then I get to believe this

Poll: Obama’s approval rating dips below 40 percent

President Obama’s approval rating has dipped below 40 percent for the first time in two years, according to a new poll from Gallup.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...ow-40-percent/

[Order 66]

i think when you couple that with the fact no black president has ever served a third term, things aren't looking so hot for him