Universal Healthcare is Wonderful and Will Ensure Better Health care for everyone

[The Omega Concern]

http://www.examiner.com/conservative...anels-comments


NY Times columnist confirms Palin's death panels comments

A New York Times Columnist, Paul Krugman, touched the third rail of Obamacare Sunday, while on ABC's 'This Week' when he made a statement confirming the need for 'death panels' as a means of containing health care costs (see video). Krugman is not the first person who has advocated the use of 'death panels' and yet liberals excoriated Sarah Palin for pointing out that the Obamacare bill contains what many on the left have said needed to be done.

During the discussion, which was about the Deficit Commission's recent recommendations on cutting expenses, Krugman made his statement in response to when discussion would take place concerning the commission's recommendations. He stated, 'Some years down the pike, we're going to get the real solution, which is going to be a combination of death panels and sale's taxes. Its going to be the; we're actually going to take Medicare under control and we're going to have to get some additional revenue from a VAT.'

I think some of you owe Sarah Palin an apology.


Or a spanking,


whichever...

[Trotskilicious]

first of all, you're quoting a source that can't tell the difference between possessive and plural

second, there's really no way to tell if Krugman said that and third, he's not an elected official and does not dictate policy.

lastly you're a raving idiot

[Trotskilicious]

Originally Posted by Corganist

We'll take this up again when Arkansas wins the SEC here within the next couple years.

great thread

[Trotskilicious]

Originally Posted by Trotskilicious

people are freaking the fuck out pretty quickly, it's kind of amusing (but more annoying). we still got 3 1/2 years of your psychotic shit to suffer through.

lol

[Starla]

Originally Posted by Trotskilicious

If you expected anything other than politics as usual then you are very naive.



i bet that did a lot of good

i mean you can get on your high horse and say you did something, but you didn't. you just went out with a sign and was ignored. it's just like bitching on the internet except that it takes more effort to be every bit as pointless.

lol

[Starla]

Looking back, it didn't really do much good at all. I'm just gonna stay home. I should set up a doomsday bunker and let the world burn around me.

[Trotskilicious]

life's a laugh and death's the joke, it's true

[The Omega Concern]

Originally Posted by Debaser

you're also forgetting the fact that one of the main goals of healthcare reform is to make it cheaper in the long term.

lol

[Future Boy]

oh the memories

[sppunk]

It is a good laugh to read Obama's original talking points on the ACA.

http://web.archive.org/web/200812210...lthcareFAQ.pdf

Ultimately this deal will IMO be called a colossal failure. When 5-10 million-plus lose insurance only to be told to pay 5-10x more monthly it'll be chaos. It sucks because the plan is a hybrid combination of bullshit.

[Trotskilicious]

what else would you expect from this system

[sppunk]

I hoped it would be better than imagined, it is needed badly.

But yeah lots of people are going to discover soon their plans are cancelled and the alternatives is hundreds a month more expensive. The whole "no one's insurance will go away" was pure lies unfortunately. Calling it Obamacare is a bit wrong too since it is based off a GOP initiative. Ugh.

[MyOneAndOnly]

every year millions of people are forced into changing plans. My company changes options on health care every year. In 20 years I've had half a dozen different HMOs. Not because I wanted to, but because my employer or the insurance companies that they negotiate with decided to change the policies. Likewise, my premiums (and my employers) have skyrocketed. I started out paying $18 per week. Now I pay $100.

the ACA requires a base level of coverage. people being "forced" out of their coverage would only be those who's current policies don't meet the basic requirements of the law. That's the exact same situation as someone with no coverage today. Or employer based coverage that doesn't meet the ACA guidelines.

Every year a million or more fewer people are ensured through their employer. 12 million fewer in the past decade.

people have been losing insurance and being forced into one plan or another by the millions year after year.

somehow now it's only a problem because of Obama?

[Order 66]

i don't hold any illusions obamacare will solve all our problems and the rollout is embarassing but crying about it now is sort of like crying about not getting to the moon a week into NASA's inception

also alot of states are rejecting the Medicaid expansion and the exchanges, screwing people over who fall into that gray area. i think that's where alot of the "failure" will come from

[Future Boy]

Originally Posted by sppunk

Calling it Obamacare is a bit wrong too since it is based off a GOP initiative. Ugh.

you embrace it, hail it as great and push for it to pass then it belongs to you

[Future Boy]

Originally Posted by Trotskilicious

what else would you expect from this system

sorry but this was a missed opportunity, dems dont get off this easy

[The Omega Concern]

Originally Posted by scottytheoneand

every year millions of people are forced into changing plans. My company changes options on health care every year. In 20 years I've had half a dozen different HMOs. Not because I wanted to, but because my employer or the insurance companies that they negotiate with decided to change the policies. Likewise, my premiums (and my employers) have skyrocketed. I started out paying $18 per week. Now I pay $100.

the ACA requires a base level of coverage. people being "forced" out of their coverage would only be those who's current policies don't meet the basic requirements of the law. That's the exact same situation as someone with no coverage today. Or employer based coverage that doesn't meet the ACA guidelines.

Every year a million or more fewer people are ensured through their employer. 12 million fewer in the past decade.

people have been losing insurance and being forced into one plan or another by the millions year after year.

somehow now it's only a problem because of Obama?

Workers losing health care through their employers is in inverse relation to disproportionate CEO salaries and employees of such companies and the cause of it is greed allowed by our rep's being paid off by lobbyist.


We didn't need a communistic takeover of 1/6 of the economy to fix the problem of rising health care cost. This plan is only accelerating that problem as it was designed to. What needs to be understood by libs and con's alike is that America is being set up to fail in grand economic and cultural proportions.



Universal Healthcare is going to look like some old black and white Czechoslovakian movie, or some sad Cuban documentary. Everybody will have health care provided by the state. There will be no private doctors or health insurance and when you call 911 for an emergency, the first question the dispatch will ask will not be the condition of the victim and circumstance of the situation, but how old they are.


If you are too old. They will just let you die. That's what happened in the Soviet Union and that's what this plan will do to this country and culture inside of 2 generations. That's the plan...here's hoping they fail.

[jczeroman]

The whole debate about this thing just shocks me and, to me, just reveals the complete lack of consistency in the major parties and their adherents.

So here is a plan that has been designed and implemented by republicans. Then when Obama puts it forward, it is suddenly "socialism". Republicans now hate it, but have no idea why they should. It is not socialism in any sense of the word. It is constantly compared to the NHS, despite being nothing like it whatsoever.

Democrats, on the other hand, who have always claimed to be against mega insurance companies, high healthcare costs, expensive drugs and corporations in general ripping people off, now suddenly support a system overhaul which fixes none of that, arguably makes it even worse, marks one of the most egregious privatizations where the choice of an individual is to either forcibly pay large, colluding insurance companies more money for inferior products, or pay a penalty which almost certainly will be used to further subsidize these same companies. The system is not a single payer system, cannot be extended into one and looks nothing like anything which democrats have generally claimed to have wanted.

Why can't people on the right admit that this isn't socialism and critique it based upon its very real unsustainable aspects? Why can't people on the left admit that this law accomplishes almost nothing that they supposedly value and actually makes a lot of ugly compromises in the other direction?

I mean, who really looks at something like the ACA and says, "yea, this is exactly what is going to fix things"? For that matter, who can honestly, without thinking about which team they play for, admit that this, if anything, just further puts the system in the hands of insurance companies, the other medical corporations and the most unsavory elements of the federal government?

[The Omega Concern]

D.C. went rogue long ago...2 party sham is what you just illustrated.


Those Rep's who want any of this is why the Tea Party exist. A genuine movement sabotaged by the elites supporting the 2 party sham. They did the same thing with the Occupy movement, killed from within and made it something its not and the mouthwhores in the mainstream media went along to get along with the 2 party sham.


And excuse me, but the individual mandate is Exhibit A of a centralized government fascist-statist-socialist-communistic ideal put into play. It is central to this thing ever having traction and therefore this entire thing of a law is a Bolshevik dream come true.


but not even they could ever dream of enough computer bandwidth to monitor every person's consumption of everything once they flip us into non-cash system. I can see the State claiming bad habits resulted in sickness and therefore alterations in health coverage will be necessary.




Government ‘Mining’ Social Media for Information on Health Behavior


http://freebeacon.com/government-min...alth-behavior/

[Future Boy]

Originally Posted by jczeroman

The system is not a single payer system, cannot be extended into one and looks nothing like anything which democrats have generally claimed to have wanted.

I asked them once what the path forward was, answer was basically hope/change.

[Order 66]

Originally Posted by jczeroman

Democrats, on the other hand, who have always claimed to be against mega insurance companies, high healthcare costs, expensive drugs and corporations in general ripping people off, now suddenly support a system overhaul which fixes none of that, arguably makes it even worse, marks one of the most egregious privatizations where the choice of an individual is to either forcibly pay large, colluding insurance companies more money for inferior products, or pay a penalty which almost certainly will be used to further subsidize these same companies. The system is not a single payer system, cannot be extended into one and looks nothing like anything which democrats have generally claimed to have wanted.

big part of the ACA is it forces insurance companies to spend most of their profits on the actual insurance, rather than line their pockets with it. it may not "stick it" to the evil corporations like some would hope, but it's not a blind cash grab for them either

and its been clear for about half a decade single payer is out of the window and the law isn't going to fit alongside any ideological boundaries. the purpose is to lower costs and insure more. maybe it'll work, maybe it wont... alot of people were crying about medicare part D at first but it worked out okay

[MyOneAndOnly]

Originally Posted by jczeroman

The whole debate about this thing just shocks me and, to me, just reveals the complete lack of consistency in the major parties and their adherents.

So here is a plan that has been designed and implemented by republicans. Then when Obama puts it forward, it is suddenly "socialism". Republicans now hate it, but have no idea why they should. It is not socialism in any sense of the word. It is constantly compared to the NHS, despite being nothing like it whatsoever.

Democrats, on the other hand, who have always claimed to be against mega insurance companies, high healthcare costs, expensive drugs and corporations in general ripping people off, now suddenly support a system overhaul which fixes none of that, arguably makes it even worse, marks one of the most egregious privatizations where the choice of an individual is to either forcibly pay large, colluding insurance companies more money for inferior products, or pay a penalty which almost certainly will be used to further subsidize these same companies. The system is not a single payer system, cannot be extended into one and looks nothing like anything which democrats have generally claimed to have wanted.

Why can't people on the right admit that this isn't socialism and critique it based upon its very real unsustainable aspects? Why can't people on the left admit that this law accomplishes almost nothing that they supposedly value and actually makes a lot of ugly compromises in the other direction?

I mean, who really looks at something like the ACA and says, "yea, this is exactly what is going to fix things"? For that matter, who can honestly, without thinking about which team they play for, admit that this, if anything, just further puts the system in the hands of insurance companies, the other medical corporations and the most unsavory elements of the federal government?

for what it's worth, there were/are people in both parties who have opinions that don't fit your stereotypes. Democrats aren't all united on health care reform. Only the progressive wing of the party supports real single payer style reform. If they ALL were for universal coverage we would have had that, since they controlled both houses of congress when this passed. In fact, both parties have significant proponents in congress for health care industry lobbies.

On the right there was support for a Massachusetts style system. That's where it came from. But the conservatives who favor it have been silenced by the right wing of their party. Some of them even thrown out of office.

[MyOneAndOnly]

just went through my open enrollment at work this week. for the first time since the 90s my premiums went down.

Thanks Obama!

[Trotskilicious]

Originally Posted by scottytheoneand

every year millions of people are forced into changing plans. My company changes options on health care every year. In 20 years I've had half a dozen different HMOs. Not because I wanted to, but because my employer or the insurance companies that they negotiate with decided to change the policies. Likewise, my premiums (and my employers) have skyrocketed. I started out paying $18 per week. Now I pay $100.

the ACA requires a base level of coverage. people being "forced" out of their coverage would only be those who's current policies don't meet the basic requirements of the law. That's the exact same situation as someone with no coverage today. Or employer based coverage that doesn't meet the ACA guidelines.

Every year a million or more fewer people are ensured through their employer. 12 million fewer in the past decade.

people have been losing insurance and being forced into one plan or another by the millions year after year.

somehow now it's only a problem because of Obama?

you privileged upper middle class white male son of a goat whore

[Trotskilicious]

Originally Posted by jczeroman

Why can't people on the right admit that this isn't socialism and critique it based upon its very real unsustainable aspects?

because socialism is a boogy man that the american public doesn't quite understand but they know it means TYRANNY and NO FREEDOM

[MyOneAndOnly]

Fox can't even stick to their own script.

Ignorant Woman mad because her $50 insurance policy which didn't cover anything doesn't work under Obama Care.

Everything this woman says is inaccurate, wrong or just plain dumb. she's complaining about the cost, but she didn't even check what her subsidy will be (ie. she doesn't know the cost). She claims she has the policy info for the Obamacare plan, but then says that she can't get on the website (how did she get the policy info?). Claims enrollment deadline is Nov 1. Not true.

[Future Boy]

Originally Posted by scottytheoneand

she's complaining about the cost, but she didn't even check what her subsidy will be (ie. she doesn't know the cost).

uh, she knows the cost, just not the subsidy. what if she doesnt qualify for one?

Originally Posted by scottytheoneand

She claims she has the policy info for the Obamacare plan, but then says that she can't get on the website (how did she get the policy info?).

the info isnt available on the website, but probably is available at the insurance website. one purpose of healthcare.gov was to have everything at one spot, which it doesnt

[Future Boy]

i didt see the vid though so she may be full of shit

[Trotskilicious]

scott's not affected so this is not a problem

[MyOneAndOnly]

Originally Posted by Future Boy

uh, she knows the cost, just not the subsidy. what if she doesnt qualify for one?


the info isnt available on the website, but probably is available at the insurance website. one purpose of healthcare.gov was to have everything at one spot, which it doesnt

did you listen to the vid? she has no clue. she only knows the price for one plan. without subsidies. and based on the fact that she had a $50 per month plan before, it's obvious that she had a catestrophic plan. Which under the new law would be $108 per month in her state (before subsidies).

the basic info for the plans is available on the website. you can view all the plans for your state by tier (gold, silver, etc) online