Universal Healthcare is Wonderful and Will Ensure Better Health care for everyone

[J.H.]

Originally Posted by 28if

The food, shelter, and clothing industries aren't ridiculously fucked up and inefficient, duh.

Seriously it's not even as if you people look at the facts at all. You're totally self=fufilling and it's not even worth arguing with you.

Yeah man, the housing market is a beaut.

[Trotskilicious]

lolasl

[jczeroman]

Originally Posted by 28if

The food, shelter, and clothing industries aren't ridiculously fucked up and inefficient, duh.

"Seriously" if you "look at the facts" about those essentials and then the "essential" of healthcare - I think it is blatantly obvious what the difference is.

[Eulogy]

....that the costs of health care become outrageous and impossible to pay for many of americans while the same doesn't apply to food, clothing, and rent?

[28if]

Originally Posted by jczeroman

"Seriously" if you "look at the facts" about those essentials and then the "essential" of healthcare - I think it is blatantly obvious what the difference is.

What are you even talking about?

[Shawn Osmond]

Originally Posted by Trotskilicious

seriously who gives a shit what people think who work in health care think

they're part of the fucking problem, spoiled pieces of overpaid shit

i'd much rather you be inconvenienced then continue under what's going on now

seriously, FUCK. YOU. you are not god's gift.

Yeah!! Who cares what the current batch of experienced doctors, nurses, and pharmacists think about what the government plan will do to them. Let's suppress them to the point that they cut back or leave the profession entirely. Then we can hire a whole new batch of doctors and nurses (i.e., current med students or worse) who have no problems at all with taking orders from the government about what they can and cannot charge for what procedures.

Trots won't mind if he has some 2nd year med student doing his heart surgery in 5 years, because at least he'll have comfort knowing that some rich doctor is not making a profit off of his misfortune. Greedy sons of bitches!!

[Mayfuck]

Originally Posted by starlightvideoproductions

Yeah, I make a fortune at $11 an hour.

Then why even bother telling us you work in "health care" as if that makes your opinion anymore insightful than anyone else's here, you fucking minimum wage grunt. Go make some more DVDs

[Nimrod's Son]

Originally Posted by beef curtains

This is one of the most naive videos I have ever seen. "Medicare is great! Profits are bad! The government won't try to make profits!"

Super, let's make a bloated system like Medicare that bleeds money right and left.

Also the fire analogy is retarded.

[beef curtains]

Originally Posted by Nimrod's Son

This is one of the most naive videos I have ever seen. "Medicare is great! Profits are bad! The government won't try to make profits!"

Super, let's make a bloated system like Medicare that bleeds money right and left.

Also the fire analogy is retarded.

Medicare is a terrible example for universal healthcare because LIKE I HAVE ALREADY MENTIONED its for

A) the most expensive segment of the population
B) a segment of the population who is absolutely poor and likes to fucking complain about everything
C) a segment of the population that does not currently pay to support it
D) paid for by a smaller segment of the population (projected at least) than those who are drawing benefits

And you know what? I think its a good starting point, and any system where patients didn't require as much care and actually paid into it themselves (like private insurance), it could actually work without having financial issues. Show me a better system for America's seniors. You can't complain about shit if no better alternative is possible.

Show me where the money is "bleeding out" with a 4% overhead operating cost. Where is the waste?

[Nimrod's Son]

Originally Posted by Eulogy

....that the costs of health care become outrageous and impossible to pay for many of americans while the same doesn't apply to food, clothing, and rent?

What's funny is you'll see a lot of these people who "can't afford healthcare" wearing brand new NBA jerseys and matching hats with $200 sneakers while eating their Mac-Donald's.

It's all about priorities, and they haven't made healthcare one of them - until of course Obama promised to have the rich people pay for it and give it to them. Now they want it cuz it free.

[beef curtains]

Originally Posted by Shawn Osmond

Yeah!! Who cares what the current batch of experienced doctors, nurses, and pharmacists think about what the government plan will do to them. Let's suppress them to the point that they cut back or leave the profession entirely. Then we can hire a whole new batch of doctors and nurses (i.e., current med students or worse) who have no problems at all with taking orders from the government about what they can and cannot charge for what procedures.

Trots won't mind if he has some 2nd year med student doing his heart surgery in 5 years, because at least he'll have comfort knowing that some rich doctor is not making a profit off of his misfortune. Greedy sons of bitches!!

You'd be surprised how many residents are helping out in heart surgery... because you know nothing about how medicine works. If you want an experienced Dr don't go to a university hospital.
The vast majority of cardiac patients are on Medicare anyways, my average patient is 70+. Its rare we get a private insurance patient, the younger ones are usually unemployed and or disabled and on medicaid anyways.

And you're justifying your greed as a non essential employee by saying that essential service providing employees will be just as greedy. Its false logic, and unproven at this point.

[beef curtains]

Originally Posted by Nimrod's Son

What's funny is you'll see a lot of these people who "can't afford healthcare" wearing brand new NBA jerseys and matching hats with $200 sneakers while eating their Mac-Donald's.

It's all about priorities, and they haven't made healthcare one of them - until of course Obama promised to have the rich people pay for it and give it to them. Now they want it cuz it free.

racist

[Eulogy]

Originally Posted by Nimrod's Son

What's funny is you'll see a lot of these people who "can't afford healthcare" wearing brand new NBA jerseys and matching hats with $200 sneakers while eating their Mac-Donald's.

It's all about priorities, and they haven't made healthcare one of them - until of course Obama promised to have the rich people pay for it and give it to them. Now they want it cuz it free.

Again, the costs are not at all equivalent.

[Corganist]

Originally Posted by beef curtains

Show me where the money is "bleeding out" with a 4% overhead operating cost. Where is the waste?

On the provider side. They're the ones who have to jump through hoops and red tape just to get Medicare to (hopefully) pay for the things they're supposed to pay for. Low overhead =/= high efficiency.

[jczeroman]

Originally Posted by Eulogy

....that the costs of health care become outrageous and impossible to pay for many of americans while the same doesn't apply to food, clothing, and rent?

Originally Posted by 28if

What are you even talking about?

Why hasn't the cost of food, clothing and rent "become outrageous and impossible to pay" despite the fact that these industries work in the exact same (fundamental) way that this video proclaims have led to failure in the healthcare industry (a portion taken out for profits and admin, waste, middlemen, "not being socialised / controlled by government").

[Trotskilicious]

Originally Posted by Shawn Osmond

Yeah!! Who cares what the current batch of experienced doctors, nurses, and pharmacists think about what the government plan will do to them. Let's suppress them to the point that they cut back or leave the profession entirely. Then we can hire a whole new batch of doctors and nurses (i.e., current med students or worse) who have no problems at all with taking orders from the government about what they can and cannot charge for what procedures.

Trots won't mind if he has some 2nd year med student doing his heart surgery in 5 years, because at least he'll have comfort knowing that some rich doctor is not making a profit off of his misfortune. Greedy sons of bitches!!

while the fact that what i posted was mostly fueled by guinness i still don't think the fact that bringing the profit margin of the profession down will make everyone completely inexperienced. again, there are plenty of countries around the world where doctors don't live in mansions and have a collection of exotic cars.

[Nimrod's Son]

Originally Posted by Eulogy

Again, the costs are not at all equivalent.

I bet if they drink tap water instead of Coke, eat more frugally and buy generic shoes and shirts at Wal*Mart they'll have enough left over for a health plan.

[Nimrod's Son]

Originally Posted by beef curtains

racist

I'm talking about people mismanaging their money. You're the one that's equating it to race.

[Trotskilicious]

you are a racist nimrod

[Nimrod's Son]

I think when I talk about poor people and you equate them to minorities, you are the racist.

[Eulogy]

Originally Posted by jczeroman

Why hasn't the cost of food, clothing and rent "become outrageous and impossible to pay" despite the fact that these industries work in the exact same (fundamental) way that this video proclaims have led to failure in the healthcare industry (a portion taken out for profits and admin, waste, middlemen, "not being socialised / controlled by government").

....because we're talking about the cost of hamburgers and t-shirts as opposed to the cost of....open heart surgery and chemotherapy?

comparing health care to food and clothing won't get anyone anywhere.

[Eulogy]

Originally Posted by Nimrod's Son

I bet if they drink tap water instead of Coke, eat more frugally and buy generic shoes and shirts at Wal*Mart they'll have enough left over for a health plan.

So everyone that doesn't have health care could have it if they spent less money on coke, mcdonald's, and basketball jerseys.

Why is everyone calling this a crisis? Nimrod solved it right here.

[redbreegull]

Originally Posted by Nimrod's Son

I think when I talk about poor people and you equate them to minorities, you are the racist.

You're such a disingenuous motherfucker. You were obviously stereotyping poor, black people.

[Eulogy]

and you guys all obviously took the bait

not like i'm one to talk about that sort of thing but come on

[Trotskilicious]

tru but he is a racist

[Ever]

Originally Posted by Eulogy

....because we're talking about the cost of hamburgers and t-shirts as opposed to the cost of....open heart surgery and chemotherapy?

comparing health care to food and clothing won't get anyone anywhere.

Well think about it this way if you were to follow the production of one hamburger from scratch what would you see?

Well first you'd see wheat being farmed, you'd see large tractors farm workers etc. then you'd see a mill and you'd see the wheat all being milled up by a bunch of people and machines and tools then you'd see the flour being moved by trucks or trains or planes or some such to some place then it'd be baked and made into buns in a bakery where more people work, then you get a bun which is then transported to your McDonald's. That's the bread part done there, now you need some tomatoes which follow a similar process but without the milling and possibly from a different place and then you need lettuce. The patty, the patty has a whole other story going with it with an abattoir and a cow and a butchery and the hundreds of people employed there. Then you got to think about the service at the restaurant itself where someone puts it all together for you and you pay what like $3.50 for it?

Now think about getting heart surgery performed. You have a surgeon that's one guy and then you have his nurses and an anesthetist and some other doctors there. You have a few machines but a lot less then you'd find in a factory and you have some very very very very simple implements but of course they're all funny shapes.

When you think about the burger and the heart surgery, heart surgery is a lot easier to do from scratch.

They're both goods they're both scarce so comparison is very much so appropriate oh and it very much so gets us places

So why do you have to pay like $40,000 for the latter?

Economics is a wondrous subject I'll tell you that.

Also Debaser, I see you made a reply in video form. May I have it in written please?

[Starla]

Originally Posted by starlightvideoproductions

I'm against the government ran option. I'm a pharmacy tech and I have to deal with insurance companies all the time. The private insurance companies are 100x better than Medicaid. If its the weekend or after 5, you're fucked contacting Medicaid. If they process a claim incorrectly, it takes them 24-48 hours to fix it, private insurance companies will do it while you're on the phone. Calling for an early refill override because of a increase in doseage? Insurance companies override it automatically or will do it on the phone. Medicaid? You have to give them the information, they give that information to someone else at Medicaid and they ask to to wait 2-3 hours and rerun the claim. Still not working? Call back, leave another message, wait another 2-3 hours, rerun again. Oh yeah, they also change their formulary (the drugs they cover) when they feel like it. So one week, someone can get their insulin, they next week, they have to pay $200 out of pocket unless they call their doctor, make an appointment (which is a long wait since the doctors that accept Medicaid are flooded with patients), then get the script and bring it to us. Then, most likely a few months later you'll have to go through the same thing. For an average person, you'd be pissed to have to pay $200 but to people on Medicaid, $200 will bankrupt them.

If this is a sign to what a government ran option will be like, than fuck that.

I don't understand where some people think health insurance is awesome. I was forced to take out a loan against my house so I can afford to keep paying for my treatments out of pocket because my insurance company is refusing to cover it after telling me that they would. This is frustrating after paying high premiums for years on end, but that's how it goes. Then I have to read some piddly assed pharmacy tech bitch about all this?

I don't know what state you work in, but medicaid has been more stable and reliable than my insurance company. My daughter came down sick once and they covered every fucking thing. I'm still paying off medical bills from 2 years ago for myself.

[Debaser]

Originally Posted by jczeroman

I think the "essential-ness" of food, shelter and clothing means that the government should probably have a go at providing that universally before anything else.

It does.

[Debaser]

Originally Posted by jczeroman

Why hasn't the cost of food, clothing and rent "become outrageous and impossible to pay" despite the fact that these industries work in the exact same (fundamental) way

They don't.

[Debaser]

Originally Posted by Ever

When you think about the burger and the heart surgery, heart surgery is a lot easier to do from scratch.

what the fuck.

Originally Posted by Ever

Also Debaser, I see you made a reply in video form. May I have it in written please?

i don't feel like transcribing it. i currently don't have the patience/time. maybe later when i get really really bored (again).