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Old 01-28-2008, 09:31 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by To Starla View Post
Well, if I'm completely wrong, and my sources have provided me with false information, feel free to link me to sources that prove it all wrong. I'm interested.


some of the things you posted are really only pertinent to these strange fundamentalist sects. anyone who watches the news should know that. i don't give a hoot about this stuff and even i knew that

 
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Old 01-28-2008, 09:36 PM   #92
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o.k. I'm tired of debating it. I do know that the jack mormons I spoke with were not fundamentalists.

::going off to find you tube videos::

 
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Old 01-28-2008, 09:39 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by To Starla View Post
Well, if I'm completely wrong, and my sources have provided me with false information, feel free to link me to sources that prove it all wrong. I'm interested.
snake will simply tell you you're wrong and not attempt to provide any information. remember he KNOWS it as fact.

 
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Old 01-28-2008, 09:41 PM   #94
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point is, mormonism as it is practiced, isnt quite mormonism as it is written to be practiced. watch an episode of big love on hbo. they're mormon offshoots. but the base beliefs, the original ones, the ones that are still practiced on a celestial level are what drives them now. you're right, and you're wrong. see, the church has a new friendly face. they have a press secretary. they've edited the book of mormon more times than anyone can count. it's hard to know what is or was doctrine at any given time. but you probably did speak to reformed or fundamentalist mormons. who still practice what was originally doctrine and later made more consumer friendly.

 
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Old 01-28-2008, 09:47 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by noyen View Post
point is, mormonism as it is practiced, isnt quite mormonism as it is written to be practiced. watch an episode of big love on hbo. they're mormon offshoots. but the base beliefs, the original ones, the ones that are still practiced on a celestial level are what drives them now. you're right, and you're wrong. see, the church has a new friendly face. they have a press secretary. they've edited the book of mormon more times than anyone can count. it's hard to know what is or was doctrine at any given time. but you probably did speak to reformed or fundamentalist mormons. who still practice what was originally doctrine and later made more consumer friendly.
Were you mormon or ....studied theology? j/c

 
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Old 01-28-2008, 09:52 PM   #96
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Were you mormon or ....studied theology? j/c
i was raised mormon until about 12 or 13 years old. my uncle who recently died was second counselor to the presidency of the church. i have studied theology. but most of what i "know" is from simply researching out of personal interest. its hard to find the truth when all you can readily find are distorted facts. just like any other cult.

 
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Old 01-28-2008, 10:12 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by To Starla View Post
o.k. I'm tired of debating it. I do know that the jack mormons I spoke with were not fundamentalists.

::going off to find you tube videos::
as far as the people who you talked to they would be enemies of the church. if they were members of the church they have fallen into apostasy and are making up far from the truth stories in an attempt to paint the church a bad sect.

such slander is not new of noyen or To Starla. This is why I don't attempt to correct them anymore. Because i don't feel that either truly are interested in knowing the church.

If they sighted talks & lessons on the official church website ( www.lds.org ) and had question about the teachings I would be happy to reply.

in regards to
Quote:
Originally Posted by To Starla
Well, if I'm completely wrong, and my sources have provided me with false information, feel free to link me to sources that prove it all wrong. I'm interested.
please state your questions and I will do my best to answer. If you ask in a slanders style, I will not even bother to ask them. If they are respectful then I will do all that I can to address them. Otherwise you may do your own research on the official church website www.lds.org

 
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Old 01-28-2008, 10:17 PM   #98
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i want to have SBT, elvis and noyen as my wives.

We can throw around the idea of going to church with monte.
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Old 01-28-2008, 10:17 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noyen View Post
i was raised mormon until about 12 or 13 years old. my uncle who recently died was second counselor to the presidency of the church. i have studied theology. but most of what i "know" is from simply researching out of personal interest. its hard to find the truth when all you can readily find are distorted facts. just like any other cult.
President Faust was a great man. I admired him and his leadership in the church and warmly appreciate all that he has done on behalf of the church.

I am not sure where you study from. But one doesn't learn how a building was built by learning on how to bring it down

 
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Old 01-28-2008, 10:20 PM   #100
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The last prophet of the Book of Mormon?, a man named Moroni?, gave this remarkable promise to anyone who wants to know whether the Book of Mormon is true: “And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost?” ( Moroni 10:4).

You can discover for yourself that what you’ve been learning is true by:

* Sincerely praying? to your Heavenly Father and asking Him if what you are learning is true.
* Continuing to study and give thoughtful consideration to what you are learning.
* Listening with your heart for the Holy Ghost to whisper the truth to you.
* Following God’s commandments? so you can feel the influence of the Holy Ghost.


so that's how snake KNOWS it for a fact.

 
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Old 01-28-2008, 10:22 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by MonteLDS View Post
one doesn't learn how a building was built by learning on how to bring it down
deep.

 
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Old 01-28-2008, 10:22 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by Eulogy View Post
The last prophet of the Book of Mormon?, a man named Moroni?, gave this remarkable promise to anyone who wants to know whether the Book of Mormon is true: ďAnd when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost?Ē ( Moroni 10:4).

You can discover for yourself that what youíve been learning is true by:

* Sincerely praying? to your Heavenly Father and asking Him if what you are learning is true.
* Continuing to study and give thoughtful consideration to what you are learning.
* Listening with your heart for the Holy Ghost to whisper the truth to you.
* Following Godís commandments? so you can feel the influence of the Holy Ghost.


so that's how snake KNOWS it for a fact.



someone looked it up!

 
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Old 01-28-2008, 10:23 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by MonteLDS View Post
as far as the people who you talked to they would be enemies of the church. if they were members of the church they have fallen into apostasy and are making up far from the truth stories in an attempt to paint the church a bad sect.
how are "they" making up things, when they're reading the same scriptures you are.

Quote:
such slander is not new of noyen or To Starla. This is why I don't attempt to correct them anymore. Because i don't feel that either truly are interested in knowing the church.
get a high school education you fucking retard. why are you so afraid of questions? i know why, because you have NO FUCKING CLUE how to answer them. there are many historians, theologists, scientists, mormons and ex-mormons alike that can get their brain cells rubbing up against each other enough to not duck out in such a typical fashion. which is exactly why you should shut the fuck up, because you, you of all people are not representative of your church, or an authority on any information derived from the chruch. and neither is the webmast of lds.org

Quote:
If they sighted talks & lessons on the official church website ( www.lds.org ) and had question about the teachings I would be happy to reply.
so if its on the internet it's true? have you done google searches on any of the questions brought up. it is unequivocally 50/50 on people saying one thing is true, and the other saying it isn't. it's fun being able to interpret things, isnt it monte? but thats not what we're talking about. we're talking about what the book of mormon says, and what prophets have said currently and in the past. have you read the book of mormon? how many times? which revision? what the fuck do you know of church history at all?

in regards to

Quote:
please state your questions and I will do my best to answer. If you ask in a slanders style, I will not even bother to ask them. If they are respectful then I will do all that I can to address them. Otherwise you may do your own research on the official church website www.lds.org
do you know what slander means jello head? you should be excommunicated for being a retard. you pompous psycho tool.

thats right, I CALLED YOU OUT.

 
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Old 01-28-2008, 10:25 PM   #104
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moron, i

 
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Old 01-28-2008, 10:25 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by MonteLDS View Post


someone looked it up!
that website wasn't helpful at all. being told that god is truth and loves me doesn't actually tell anyone shit.

 
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Old 01-28-2008, 10:26 PM   #106
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noyen, you don't make friends by being mean.

 
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Old 01-28-2008, 10:26 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by MonteLDS View Post
noyen, you don't make friends by being mean.
i feel like being noyen's friend now

 
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Old 01-28-2008, 10:28 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by MonteLDS View Post
President Faust was a great man. I admired him and his leadership in the church and warmly appreciate all that he has done on behalf of the church.

I am not sure where you study from. But one doesn't learn how a building was built by learning on how to bring it down
you dont know him, so who the fuck are you to say he was a great man? where did you interact with him? what discussions have you had with him? he's MY uncle. he's not your martyr, and he's not for you to fall back on or divert with.

your stupidity, your complete utter absence of logic is pretty mind blowing. if you did any "study" on the church, you'd have a whole slew of questions. but you're going on blind faith, and dont know anything factual in a spiritual sense (because you cant, and no one else can) and you know even less of what we even have to go off of. if you could explain what your irrelevant cliche has to do with anything in this thread, please enlighten me. or direct me to a page on lds.org that does enlighten me on how to learn how to build a pinewood derby car without blowing it up first. gah.

 
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Old 01-28-2008, 10:30 PM   #109
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wow

 
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Old 01-28-2008, 10:31 PM   #110
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I don't have to meet someone to know that they are a great leader. I didn't have to shake his hand to know that he knows the church is true.

I know he is supposedly your uncle, but if you can't except that i respected your uncle, that's not my problem.

Good Day to you

 
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Old 01-28-2008, 10:32 PM   #111
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this is rich:

Quote:
n 1829, Joseph Smith received the restored priesthood authority to organize Christ’s Church. John the Baptist appeared and conferred upon Joseph Smith and his associate Oliver Cowdery the Aaronic Priesthood?, which includes the authority to perform the ordinance? of baptism?. Later, Peter, James, and John (three of Christ’s original Apostles) appeared and conferred the Melchizedek Priesthood? upon Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery, restoring the same authority given to Christ’s Apostles anciently. In 1830, with this priesthood authority, the same Church of Jesus Christ that existed centuries ago was organized and restored to the earth by Joseph Smith.

 
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Old 01-28-2008, 10:37 PM   #112
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Dr. Matheny described the Book of Mormon as filled with anachronisms — things that are out of place historically and culturally. It introduces Old World cultural achievements into the pre-Columbian Americas, though the archaeological evidence shows no such levels of culture were attained during this period. Defenders of the historicity of the Book of Mormon are left with only scattered bits of evidence which they interpret apart from accepted scientific standards. The following are among the more significant Book of Mormon anachronisms described by Prof. Matheny:

An Iron Industry. Nephite civilization is depicted as having iron and other metal industries; we read of metal swords and breastplates, gold and silver coinage, and even machinery. However, according to Matheny, there is no evidence that any Mesoamerican civilization attained such an industry during Book of Mormon times (terminus ad quo: A.D. 421). He pointed out that an iron industry is not a simple feat involving a few people, but a complex process that requires a specialized socio-economic context and leaves virtually indestructible archaeological evidence. However, Matheny reports that:

No evidence has been found in the new world for a ferrous metallurgical industry dating to pre-Columbian times. And so this is a king-size kind of problem, it seems to me, for so-called Book of Mormon archeology. The evidence is absent.15

Prof. Matheny noted that while scattered iron artifacts have been found in pre-Columbian settings, in the absence of evidence of a metallurgical industry, they must be accounted for by random means, such as meteorites. A few random, scattered artifacts are not a basis for scientific conclusions.16

Old World Agricultural Products. The Book of Mormon depicts the Nephites as producing wheat, barley, flax (linen), grapes, and olives, but none of these products existed in pre-Columbian Mesoamerica. As with iron, Matheny pointed out that a complex economic and so- cial level is required to produce these products as they are portrayed in the Book of Mormon:

There's a whole system of production of wheat and barley . . . It's a specialized production of food. You have to know something to make flax [the source of linen], and especially in tropical climates. Grapes and olives . . . all these are cultures that are highly developed and amount to systems, and so the Book of Mormon is saying that these systems existed here.17

Matheny noted that a 1983 Science magazine article describing barley found in a pre-Columbian setting is wrongly claimed as support for the Book of Mormon because the grain described was not a domesticated old world barley.18

Old World Domestic Animals. Another whole group of anachronisms involve various old world domesticated animals which the Book of Mormon describes as integral to Nephite culture. These ******* asses, cows, goats, sheep, horses, oxen, swine, and elephants. Here again, Matheny pointed out that these domesticated animals are each specializations that require a specific cultural level not attained in the pre-Columbian Americas:

You don't just have a cow or a goat or a horse as an esoteric pet or something. There is a system of raising these things, and the picture that is painted for me as I read this, and others too, is that we have [in Book of Mormon portrayals]. . . domestic animals and so forth in the New World.19

Is it valid to claim, as some defenders of the historicity of the Book of Mormon do, that these names — cow, horse, etc. — are simply being used as substitutes for native New World animals such as peccaries or tape deer? Matheny argues that this is not legitimate because the Book of Mormon descriptions occur in specific literary contexts that assume complex old world systems for the raising and use of the various domestic animals:

I mean in Alma there [18:10; 20:6,8] , you know he's using the stable there preparing the horses for King Lamoni, and also he's preparing the King's chariots because they're going to take a trip from one city to another over the royal highway. And also the horses are pastured, no less. So there are contexts within the Book of Mormon itself. These are not just substitutions, it seems to me, but the authors of the Book of Mormon there are providing the context, they're not trying to describe a tape deer or something else, it seems to me. This is a weak way to try to explain the presence of these names in the Book of Mormon.20

No Place In The New World
Matheny's overall assessment is that archaeology offers no support for the Book of Mormon as history: "I would say in evaluating the Book of Mormon that it has no place in the New World whatsoever."

Prof. Matheny is not alone in this assessment. The highly respected Mesoamerican archaeologist Michael Coe has written:

The bare facts of the matter are that nothing, absolutely nothing, has ever shown up in any New World excavation which would suggest to a dispassionate observer that the Book of Mormon, as claimed by Joseph Smith, is a historical document relating to the history of early immigrants to our hemisphere.21

This article began by acknowledging that archaeology cannot directly prove or disprove the spiritual claims of the Book of Mormon or the Bible. However, it can evaluate the historical claims which both books make, and that evaluation shows that while the Bible's claim to be authentic history is supported by objective evidence click for article on the Bible and archaeology, the same cannot be said for the Book of Mormon.

 
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Old 01-28-2008, 10:37 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by MonteLDS View Post
I don't have to meet someone to know that they are a great leader. I didn't have to shake his hand to know that he knows the church is true.

I know he is supposedly your uncle, but if you can't except that i respected your uncle, that's not my problem.

Good Day to you
you can say he's a great man if you have some sort of example to back up your claims of him being a great man. i know he was a great man, in my opinion, because i interacted with him constantly, all the way up until he died. and he's my "supposed" uncle now. hah. you're a fucking pansy.

how do you know what his feelings of the church are? do you know how he spoke, what language he used, what questions he had, what concerns he had and what doubts he had? i dont think you do, because you never engaged in those conversations like i did. so shut the fuck up about respecting my uncle, as it is irrelevant. and why would i "except" that i respect my uncle? what problem do i have? i have a problem with you respecting someone you know nothing about, other than his image to members of the church, especially to sheep like you.

GOOD DAY MONTE. MAY GOD BE WITH YOU.

i hope he's driving the bus that hits you.

 
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Old 01-28-2008, 10:37 PM   #114
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accept

 
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Old 01-28-2008, 10:40 PM   #115
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i am a very excepting person

 
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Old 01-28-2008, 10:47 PM   #116
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i take acception to that!

 
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Old 01-28-2008, 10:48 PM   #117
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Old 01-28-2008, 11:02 PM   #118
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that makes me want to play soccer!

 
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Old 01-28-2008, 11:04 PM   #119
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Old 01-28-2008, 11:35 PM   #120
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i also KNOW it. as fact.
of course you do.

 
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