ROGER CLEMENS IN THE MITCHELL REPORT!!! - Page 4

hnibos · 12-13-2007, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trotskilicious

actually i can since every fucking baseball thread on this board has nimrod trolling sox fans but fuck can't you stinking yanks see how tiresome you are

sometimes, i thought it was us red sox fan that are too agressive, im glad someone sees that its the yankee fans that are so upfront with their ridiculous opinions.

Trotskilicious · 12-13-2007, 06:59 PM

no nimrod is that way in general

jenniferkate is like a phantom yankee fan apparently

Trotskilicious · 12-13-2007, 07:01 PM

i think it's interesting that the chicagos, boston and a lot of small market clubs aren't on this list. are they seriously trying to tell me that derek lee and big papi aren't juiced?

hnibos · 12-13-2007, 07:06 PM

apparently big papi is just a fatfuck. we have to consider that mitchell got all his information from mostly one trainer, there is obviously more than one trainer involved in this,

Eulogy · 12-13-2007, 07:20 PM

yeah, i'm under the impression that the scope of this thing is very, very limited. there have to be more players that just escaped the reach of this thing.

Kanan Road · 12-13-2007, 08:18 PM

Ismael Valdez and Jose Offerman bring the lols even after they are gone.

jenniferkate · 12-13-2007, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trotskilicious

jenniferkate is like a phantom yankee fan apparently

what does that mean

Nimrod's Son · 12-13-2007, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jenniferkate

what does that mean

thats how he hits on women which explains the success rate

Nimrod's Son · 12-13-2007, 10:20 PM

for the record i wasn't saying anything pro-yankee or anti-red sox, it was anti-selig for choosing a Director of the Red Sox to lead the investigation, which even if done fairly and above board taints the results

Nimrod's Son · 12-13-2007, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esty

I wasn't a giant fan of Clemens, but I did respect him at times. That shit with Piazza being the only thing I hated him for. I don't think he deserves hall of fame induction based on when he started, and how it has helped him since, but he'll be in. Eventually, they will let him in.

If Clemens had retired rather than starting steroids the day after he left Boston (according to the Mitchell report) he'd still be a HOFer.

Same with Bonds if he retired in 2000.

Nimrod's Son · 12-13-2007, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sepiae

I've always hated Clemens (even when he was with Boston) but it's hard for me to enjoy something like this. I'd rather hate him because he's a prick, not because he used steroids.

Roger's lawyer does make a good case for him:

“The use of steroids in sports is a serious problem, it is wrong and it should be stopped,” Hardin said. “However, I am extremely upset that Roger’s name was in this report based on the allegations of a troubled and unreliable witness who only came up with names after being threatened with possible prison time.”

Brian McNamee, a former trainer who worked with Clemens on the Toronto Blue Jays and the New York Yankees, has repeatedly denied these current claims, including in June of this year when he was first contacted by federal investigators. According to McNamee, after a day of repeated denials to federal investigators, he changed his story under the threat of federal criminal prosecution. He says he was then forced by those federal prosecutorial authorities to tell the same story for inclusion in the Mitchell report.

“I am at a total loss to understand how it is proper for federal prosecutorial authorities to use the threat of criminal prosecution to help in a private business investigation,” Hardin said.

Esty · 12-14-2007, 04:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nimrod's Son

If Clemens had retired rather than starting steroids the day after he left Boston (according to the Mitchell report) he'd still be a HOFer.

Seriously? I mean, he wouldn't have the strikeout total he has now, and he wouldn't have over 300 wins. Closer to 200. There are some pitchers with the stats he had at that time (i'm just going with it off the top of my head), that are not in the hall now.
Bert Blyleven comes to mind. Guy is about 10 wins from 300, a great era and over 3500+ strikeouts, yet is not in the hall.

How much did clemens pad his stats after he left the Red Sox? A quick search at MLB will tell you he added an additional 2000+ K's and 162 wins, and many more cy young awards to go along with them. He is nowhere near a HOF at that point, if he retired then.

TuralyonW3 · 12-14-2007, 04:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esty

Seriously? I mean, he wouldn't have the strikeout total he has now, and he wouldn't have over 300 wins. Closer to 200. There are some pitchers with the stats he had at that time (i'm just going with it off the top of my head), that are not in the hall now.
Bert Blyleven comes to mind. Guy is about 10 wins from 300, a great era and over 3500+ strikeouts, yet is not in the hall.

How much did clemens pad his stats after he left the Red Sox? A quick search at MLB will tell you he added an additional 2000+ K's and 162 wins, and many more cy young awards to go along with them. He is nowhere near a HOF at that point, if he retired then.

umm, wouldn't 5 cy youngs at that point have been enough?

Esty · 12-14-2007, 04:42 AM

Cy youngs aren' t championships. Also, he only won 3 with Boston.

Finally, go back to your fucking hole, or your make believe girlfriend. Stay away from any baseball talk.

Nimrod's Son · 12-14-2007, 05:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TuralyonW3

umm, wouldn't 5 cy youngs at that point have been enough?

He didn't have 5 cy youngs at that point you stupid fuck.

he won 2 with toronto, one with new york, and one with houston.

stay the fuck out of any thread that i've posted in from now on

TuralyonW3 · 12-14-2007, 05:29 AM

baseball sucks anyway, and it's a bullshit game full of doping cheaters

TuralyonW3 · 12-14-2007, 06:03 AM

on another note, I love how espn keeps pointing out that clemens was "injected in the buttocks..."

Trotskilicious · 12-14-2007, 06:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jenniferkate

what does that mean

you don't troll people and act like a fuckhead in baseball threads

nimrod does it and suddenly all yankees fans troll people and act like fuckheads

you know what i mean?

Trotskilicious · 12-14-2007, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nimrod's Son

He didn't have 5 cy youngs at that point you stupid fuck.

he won 2 with toronto, one with new york, and one with houston.

stay the fuck out of any thread that i've posted in from now on

like this?

this is fucking retarded.

Nate the Grate · 12-14-2007, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hnibos

how so?

Whoops sorry, just saw this post.

This explains it: http://www.sonsofsamhorn.net/wiki/in..._of_his_career

Trotskilicious · 12-14-2007, 07:49 AM

the george mitchell report is the BEST thing to EVER happen to Bobby Petrino

aurel · 12-14-2007, 10:05 AM

Saw a report on this on BBC news america last night. Fucking mad to see one of the guys who worked on the northern Ireland peace process cleaning up baseball.

hnibos · 12-14-2007, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esty

Seriously? I mean, he wouldn't have the strikeout total he has now, and he wouldn't have over 300 wins. Closer to 200. There are some pitchers with the stats he had at that time (i'm just going with it off the top of my head), that are not in the hall now.
Bert Blyleven comes to mind. Guy is about 10 wins from 300, a great era and over 3500+ strikeouts, yet is not in the hall.

How much did clemens pad his stats after he left the Red Sox? A quick search at MLB will tell you he added an additional 2000+ K's and 162 wins, and many more cy young awards to go along with them. He is nowhere near a HOF at that point, if he retired then.

i cant say i was around much then, but i was under the impression that up until that point, roger clemens had been the best baseball pitcher of that era (1986-1996), sort of like the modern day pedro martinez. Pedro may not have all the stats, 300 wins, 4000 strikeouts, etc. but i certainly think he is a hof'er. Those two are probably very comparable, especially when considering dominance, albeit short-term.

aw fuck it, roger is a deceitful cheater and i hope he never makes it to the hall.

jenniferkate · 12-14-2007, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trotskilicious

you don't troll people and act like a fuckhead in baseball threads

nimrod does it and suddenly all yankees fans troll people and act like fuckheads

you know what i mean?

OH okay. yeah, i was wondering how all the yankees fans being so upfront with their ridiculous opinions worked when there are all of two nyy fans here, and i'm not all that outspoken.

Trotskilicious · 12-14-2007, 05:44 PM

now i used to think that all roids abusers could be identified on sight, Barry Bonds and Roger are unnaturally huge considering their size when they first started playing, also the longevity starts to enter in the question since it seems HGH and steriods can make you effective into your early forties. Now, Tom Glavine doesn't look like he uses that shit, and I doubt he does since he's a finesse/endurance pitcher but if Chuck Knoblauch was allegedly on roids, who knows anymore. Of course, maybe that was why his arm got all wonky in his last couple years out of nowhere.

As far as Big Papi is concerned, he could be just huge since he has been from the start, like Frank Thomas. But I know I remember Manny being a more fleetfooted RF when he played in Cleveland.

Nimrod's Son · 12-14-2007, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trotskilicious

now i used to think that all roids abusers could be identified on sight, Barry Bonds and Roger are unnaturally huge considering their size when they first started playing, also the longevity starts to enter in the question since it seems HGH and steriods can make you effective into your early forties. Now, Tom Glavine doesn't look like he uses that shit, and I doubt he does since he's a finesse/endurance pitcher but if Chuck Knoblauch was allegedly on roids, who knows anymore. Of course, maybe that was why his arm got all wonky in his last couple years out of nowhere.

As far as Big Papi is concerned, he could be just huge since he has been from the start, like Frank Thomas. But I know I remember Manny being a more fleetfooted RF when he played in Cleveland.

Frank Thomas was a beast in college playing tight end.

Manny could rake when he was 17 years old in the Indians system. I've never suspected him.

Ortiz went from a guy who couldn't hang on as a non-tendered player with a crappy offense to a perennial HR leader. There is some suspicion there

sppunk · 12-14-2007, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trotskilicious

But I know I remember Manny being a more fleetfooted RF when he played in Cleveland.

Not really ...

Trotskilicious · 12-14-2007, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nimrod's Son

Ortiz went from a guy who couldn't hang on as a non-tendered player with a crappy offense to a perennial HR leader. There is some suspicion there

I remember when he was a 500 pound "power hitter" that jacked 20 in the Metrodome.

Nimrod's Son · 12-14-2007, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trotskilicious

like this?

this is fucking retarded.

how is pointing out a blatantly wrong statistic "trolling"

Nimrod's Son · 12-14-2007, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trotskilicious

I remember when he was a 500 pound "power hitter" that jacked 20 in the Metrodome.

I mean he was so bad in Minnesota that they didn't even offer arbitration.. and it wasn't a salary issue

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12-13-2007, 06:59 PM	#92
Trotskilicious Banned Location: I believe in the transcendental qualities of friendship. Posts: 39,602	no nimrod is that way in general jenniferkate is like a phantom yankee fan apparently

12-13-2007, 07:01 PM	#93
Trotskilicious Banned Location: I believe in the transcendental qualities of friendship. Posts: 39,602	i think it's interesting that the chicagos, boston and a lot of small market clubs aren't on this list. are they seriously trying to tell me that derek lee and big papi aren't juiced?

12-13-2007, 07:06 PM	#94
hnibos Braindead Location: I was just reading, right? Posts: 15,020	apparently big papi is just a fatfuck. we have to consider that mitchell got all his information from mostly one trainer, there is obviously more than one trainer involved in this,

12-13-2007, 07:20 PM	#95
Eulogy huh Posts: 62,362	yeah, i'm under the impression that the scope of this thing is very, very limited. there have to be more players that just escaped the reach of this thing.

12-13-2007, 08:18 PM	#96
Kanan Road Apocalyptic Poster Location: Cloud Number Nine Posts: 1,569	Ismael Valdez and Jose Offerman bring the lols even after they are gone.

12-13-2007, 10:20 PM	#99
Nimrod's Son Master of Karate and Friendship Location: in your butt Posts: 72,943	for the record i wasn't saying anything pro-yankee or anti-red sox, it was anti-selig for choosing a Director of the Red Sox to lead the investigation, which even if done fairly and above board taints the results

12-14-2007, 04:42 AM	#104
Esty Netphorian of the Decade Location: Waiting in line for his geranium kiss Posts: 15,478	Cy youngs aren' t championships. Also, he only won 3 with Boston. Finally, go back to your fucking hole, or your make believe girlfriend. Stay away from any baseball talk.

12-14-2007, 05:29 AM	#106
TuralyonW3 Immortal Posts: 25,567	baseball sucks anyway, and it's a bullshit game full of doping cheaters

12-14-2007, 06:03 AM	#107
TuralyonW3 Immortal Posts: 25,567	on another note, I love how espn keeps pointing out that clemens was "injected in the buttocks..."

12-14-2007, 07:49 AM	#111
Trotskilicious Banned Location: I believe in the transcendental qualities of friendship. Posts: 39,602	the george mitchell report is the BEST thing to EVER happen to Bobby Petrino

12-14-2007, 10:05 AM	#112
aurel Apocalyptic Poster Location: Maximum Homosapien crammed down your HaHa hole. Posts: 2,339	Saw a report on this on BBC news america last night. Fucking mad to see one of the guys who worked on the northern Ireland peace process cleaning up baseball.

12-14-2007, 05:44 PM	#115
Trotskilicious Banned Location: I believe in the transcendental qualities of friendship. Posts: 39,602	now i used to think that all roids abusers could be identified on sight, Barry Bonds and Roger are unnaturally huge considering their size when they first started playing, also the longevity starts to enter in the question since it seems HGH and steriods can make you effective into your early forties. Now, Tom Glavine doesn't look like he uses that shit, and I doubt he does since he's a finesse/endurance pitcher but if Chuck Knoblauch was allegedly on roids, who knows anymore. Of course, maybe that was why his arm got all wonky in his last couple years out of nowhere. As far as Big Papi is concerned, he could be just huge since he has been from the start, like Frank Thomas. But I know I remember Manny being a more fleetfooted RF when he played in Cleveland.