2008 U.S. preisdential election: Obama vs. Huckabee

[Gish08]

She should be able to beat anyone but Rudy.

[Corganist]

Originally Posted by Debaser

.

What a fucking bullshit hit piece. Yeah, Huckabee is religious and has some off-base policy views. Sure, they're related in some cases...but what does it fucking matter? Bad policy is bad policy. Turning the guy's religion into THE reason he's unelectable is ridiculous. Seriously, some of the things the author tried to pin on Hucakbee's religion are just plain silly. Arkansas's schools aren't bad because Huckabee is anti-science. They've been bad since well before the oh-so-enlightened Bill Clinton was governor here (actually they were worse then, but I digress). Money is the problem, not antipathy to science. I went to Arkansas public schools while Huckabee was governor, and believe me, religion interfering with science class was the furthest thing from being a problem. It's shameful that this Taibbi character would imply otherwise.

Same goes for the implication that the trumped up ethical complaints against Huckabee somehow put Whitewater to shame. Considering that the governor of Arkansas before Huckabee (Jim Guy Tucker) got sent to the federal pen because of his involvement in Whitewater, and Huckabee is a free man currently, it seems that claim doesn't pass the smell test. I'm not saying that Huckabee is clean as a whistle, but the claims that were listed in the article are mostly just trumped up charges from the far left of Arkansas politics. The fact that the Arkansas Times (a free weekly liberal rag) appears to be the primary source for the article casts a lot of doubt on the objectivity of the piece. I know quite a few people who have worked on gubernatorial campaigns opposing Huckabee, and the type of rumors they make up and spread about the man would make your head spin. The left wing from Arkansas is not to be trusted.

[redbull]

and there goes the Romney campaign: http://www.boston.com/news/local/bre...p1=MEWell_Pos3

[Kanan Road]

those illegal mexicans should be thankful they got to breathe mitt romney's air. it beats mexico city.

but yeah romney is starting the spin down the shitter for good.

[Debaser]

Originally Posted by Corganist

What a fucking bullshit hit piece. Yeah, Huckabee is religious and has some off-base policy views. Sure, they're related in some cases...but what does it fucking matter? Bad policy is bad policy. Turning the guy's religion into THE reason he's unelectable is ridiculous. Seriously, some of the things the author tried to pin on Hucakbee's religion are just plain silly. Arkansas's schools aren't bad because Huckabee is anti-science. They've been bad since well before the oh-so-enlightened Bill Clinton was governor here (actually they were worse then, but I digress). Money is the problem, not antipathy to science. I went to Arkansas public schools while Huckabee was governor, and believe me, religion interfering with science class was the furthest thing from being a problem. It's shameful that this Taibbi character would imply otherwise.

Same goes for the implication that the trumped up ethical complaints against Huckabee somehow put Whitewater to shame. Considering that the governor of Arkansas before Huckabee (Jim Guy Tucker) got sent to the federal pen because of his involvement in Whitewater, and Huckabee is a free man currently, it seems that claim doesn't pass the smell test. I'm not saying that Huckabee is clean as a whistle, but the claims that were listed in the article are mostly just trumped up charges from the far left of Arkansas politics. The fact that the Arkansas Times (a free weekly liberal rag) appears to be the primary source for the article casts a lot of doubt on the objectivity of the piece. I know quite a few people who have worked on gubernatorial campaigns opposing Huckabee, and the type of rumors they make up and spread about the man would make your head spin. The left wing from Arkansas is not to be trusted.

You're closer to the situation than me so I won't try to argue the corruption and education criticisms. Type a response to Matt or post in the comments of the article challenging those points, maybe you'll get a response.

But the fact that Huckabee is extremely religious, believing in crazy evangelical shit and also how super pro-life he is -- is enough for me to call him a nutjob without any qualms.

[Tchocky]

Originally Posted by Gish08

No. Rudy will appeal to most of the moderates and other "on the fence" voters. He's the GOP's best chance against Hillary.

This isn't true. Rudy is too polarizing. Back in the 2004 presidential election, which constituent carried the Repubs to victory? It wasn't the fence voters or the moderates, it was the Christian right. Most of the Christian right does not support Giuliani due to his stance on gay marriage and abortion, and will either not vote at all or vote for a third-party candidate before they vote for him. In a way, this is similar to what happened to Bush Senior in 1992 when the Repub vote was split between him and Perot, opening the door for Big Willy Style. Plus, this country as a whole is war-weary. At the risk of over-simplifying this issue, Giuliani is essentially a pro-abortion, pro-gay marriage George W. Bush. Plus, he's a corrupt douchebag whose political life was saved by 9/11.

Rudy may sway some moderates and fence voters, but what he gains in them he'll lose and then some in Christian Coalition votes. Don't underestimate the voting power of the Christian conservatives. If the Repubs want to win next year, they have to play to their strengths, and that isn't in swaying fence voters and moderates. They need to get a repeat performance from all the Southern Baptists who voted for Bush in droves back in 2004.

[Corganist]

Originally Posted by Debaser

You're closer to the situation than me so I won't try to argue the corruption and education criticisms. Type a response to Matt or post in the comments of the article challenging those points, maybe you'll get a response.

I'll let someone who's a little more invested in Huckabee as a candidate set the official record straight with Rolling Stone. I'm sure someone else could do a much better job of defending Huckabee than I could do (or more importantly, would do). I just wanted to point out that I think Huckabee was getting a raw deal in the article. If Huckabee was anywhere near as corrupt or inept as his detractors make out, then there's no way he would have remained as popular in Arkansas as he was for so long. This is still a fairly liberal state. We gave the world the Clinton's after all (and the world can keep them!) The people who are perpetuating the negative stuff that the national media is picking up on are a small but vocal minority in Arkansas politics, and really aren't taken all that seriously around here.

But the fact that Huckabee is extremely religious, believing in crazy evangelical shit and also how super pro-life he is -- is enough for me to call him a nutjob without any qualms.

I think it's fine to be concerned about the guy's religion and how it may affect his decisionmaking...but I don't know if there's any justification for questioning the man's sanity based on his religious views. I don't think believing in creationism or being rabidly pro-life puts you in the same category as people who smear their poop on the walls of padded cells. I think the "this guy is a wackjob" rhetoric is a tad overblown.

That said, there are still plenty of other good reasons to not vote for Huckabee despite his mental soundness.

[jczeroman]

Originally Posted by Debaser

But the fact that Huckabee is extremely religious, believing in crazy evangelical shit and also how super pro-life he is -- is enough for me to call him a nutjob without any qualms.

There are much better reasons to call Huckabee a nutjob than that he takes popular religious and abortion positions.

[Debaser]

But those are merely the most entertaining reasons.

[Debaser]

NIE? what NIE?

[Debaser]

Originally Posted by Corganist

That said, there are still plenty of other good reasons to not vote for Huckabee despite his mental soundness.

Yeah, such as the fact that he's a republican.

[Trotskilicious]

lets go mike gravel

[Trotskilicious]

what's wrong with obama anyway. it's not like he can possibly do worse.

[redbull]

he's a black

[Debaser]

Originally Posted by Trotskilicious

lets go mike gravel

His support of fairtax is an immediate dealbreaker for me.

[Trotskilicious]

i think it's awesome

you don't like it because you want your fancy import cars and state of the art doodads

[Debaser]

Originally Posted by Trotskilicious

i think it's awesome

you don't like it because you want your fancy import cars and state of the art doodads

The first red flag about the fairtax is how dishonestly they advertise an implementation of a national sales tax* of only 23%!.
*inclusive.


Notice what they did there? That is not the common way anybody calculates their sales tax. It's intentionally misleading and it gets worse the more you delve into it:
http://www.factcheck.org/taxes/unspi...e_fairtax.html

[Thaniel Buckner]

Originally Posted by redbull

he's a black

bring back rep.

[JokeyLoki]

For those of you who don't like the fair tax: Do you actually think that, if he were elected, he could ACTUALLY pass a fair tax, effectively eliminating the IRS?

That's like saying that Hillary could actually get a bill passed that would give $5000 to every baby born in the US... ain't gonna happen, but it sounds good to some folks, so hell, why not say it?

[TicalFSU]

Stolen from a poster on FARK:

A. When Huckabee was Governer of Arkansas, he petititioned the parole board to parole a rapist with 25 years remaining on his sentence.

B. Multiple women and family members begged Huckabee not to allow for his pardon.

C. Once released, the rapist raped and killed two more women. (rapist has since died in jail).

D. Huckabee's people tried to hide all evidence of his involvement by requesting all state agencies send their copies of documents of the episode to the Governor's office. Because once the documents were in the Governors office, the stringent Arkansas freedom of information policies wouldn't apply, meaning the documents couldn't be easily accessed.

E. Huckabee now says that the parole board members are lying, that he never requested this guy be paroled. Further, Huckabee says that only the Democrats on the parole board are saying he asked them to parole this guy.

F. But now, Huckabee's former senior aide (not one of those evil Democrats) confirms that the Huckabee machine has been trying to hide all evidence of this episode. He also confirms that Huckbee did push to have this guy paroled.

And now Huckabee's former senior aide has given the press a bunch of those documents that the Huckabee campaign had been trying to hide.


It doesn't seem to make sense. You may ask yourself, Why in the farking world would Governor Huckabee have wanted a convicted rapist to be released with 25 years left on his sentence?

This is where it gets both crazy and ugly. The crime for which this guy was up for pardon was the rape of a high-school cheerleader who was a distant cousin of then Governor Bill Clinton.

When Clinton became president, some Arkansas Republicans hatched a wacky theory that the rapist was falsely convicted by Bill Clinton's minions. The rapist became a cause celeb of the Arkansas Republican party. (Something like those two imprisoned border guards.)

It's now clear that the Arkansas Republican responsible for this movement had been barking up the wrong tree. Because Clinton had actually recused himself of all involvement with the case, meaning the rapist was convicted entirely on merit. (Also confirmed by the rapists going out and raping and killing some more after he was released)

My personal opinion; this is MUCH WORSE than Willie Horton. Huckabee PERSONALLY petetitioned for this guy's release. Huckabee ignored personal pleas from the former victims and family members. Made worse by the fact that the release was driven by screwball, paranoid, politics. (and Republican hatred of Bill Clinton)

I think Huckabee is TOAST. I'd be shocked if the Romney camp doesn't start using this immediately. They'd be crazy not to, this is a real scandal.

If for some reason, Huckle's Republican competition somehow let him slide on this, the Dems will use this to utterly and completely destroy him in the General. Biggest sweep in electoral history.

[Trotskilicious]

haha bill clinton is the devil to some people isn't he

[Corganist]

Originally Posted by TicalFSU

.

So wait, now people are saying Huckabee advocated for Wayne Dumond's parole...to stick it to Bill Clinton?

What. the. Fuck.

It's quite convenient that in all that fantasy about Huckabee releasing a convicted rapist as a political move that perhaps the most crucial part of the story gets left out. The reason Wayne Dumond's release was so controversial and debated in the media here was becuase Dumond had been the victim of vigilante justice prior to his being sent to prison. A couple guys broke into Dumond's home and castrated him. Why did this have any bearing on his parole? Because there was a lot of indication that the castration was at least officially allowed by local law enforcement (the men who did it were never arrested for the crime) and more likely, local law enforcement officials were actually behind it. It's well known here that the local sheriff kept Dumond's testicles on display in a jar on his desk (with a sign attached saying something to the effect of "this is what happens to rapists in my county") for some time before flushing them down a toilet.

Obviously it was the wrong decision to release Dumond. And I have my doubts that Huckabee was totally blameless in the matter. (though the wheels of Dumond's release had started in motion long before Huckabee was ever elected). But it's just plain retarded to suggest he went on a one man crusade to release a convicted rapist because it would make Bill Clinton mad. Arkansas politics can get ridiculous, but not that ridiculous. Huckabee might have fucked up, but if anything, it was because he thought Dumond had been punished enough. It had nothing to do with Clinton.

[redbull]

Originally Posted by TicalFSU

Stolen from a poster on FARK:

A. When Huckabee was Governer of Arkansas, he petititioned the parole board to parole a rapist with 25 years remaining on his sentence.

B. Multiple women and family members begged Huckabee not to allow for his pardon.

C. Once released, the rapist raped and killed two more women. (rapist has since died in jail).

D. Huckabee's people tried to hide all evidence of his involvement by requesting all state agencies send their copies of documents of the episode to the Governor's office. Because once the documents were in the Governors office, the stringent Arkansas freedom of information policies wouldn't apply, meaning the documents couldn't be easily accessed.

E. Huckabee now says that the parole board members are lying, that he never requested this guy be paroled. Further, Huckabee says that only the Democrats on the parole board are saying he asked them to parole this guy.

F. But now, Huckabee's former senior aide (not one of those evil Democrats) confirms that the Huckabee machine has been trying to hide all evidence of this episode. He also confirms that Huckbee did push to have this guy paroled.

And now Huckabee's former senior aide has given the press a bunch of those documents that the Huckabee campaign had been trying to hide.


It doesn't seem to make sense. You may ask yourself, Why in the farking world would Governor Huckabee have wanted a convicted rapist to be released with 25 years left on his sentence?

This is where it gets both crazy and ugly. The crime for which this guy was up for pardon was the rape of a high-school cheerleader who was a distant cousin of then Governor Bill Clinton.

When Clinton became president, some Arkansas Republicans hatched a wacky theory that the rapist was falsely convicted by Bill Clinton's minions. The rapist became a cause celeb of the Arkansas Republican party. (Something like those two imprisoned border guards.)

It's now clear that the Arkansas Republican responsible for this movement had been barking up the wrong tree. Because Clinton had actually recused himself of all involvement with the case, meaning the rapist was convicted entirely on merit. (Also confirmed by the rapists going out and raping and killing some more after he was released)

My personal opinion; this is MUCH WORSE than Willie Horton. Huckabee PERSONALLY petetitioned for this guy's release. Huckabee ignored personal pleas from the former victims and family members. Made worse by the fact that the release was driven by screwball, paranoid, politics. (and Republican hatred of Bill Clinton)

I think Huckabee is TOAST. I'd be shocked if the Romney camp doesn't start using this immediately. They'd be crazy not to, this is a real scandal.

If for some reason, Huckle's Republican competition somehow let him slide on this, the Dems will use this to utterly and completely destroy him in the General. Biggest sweep in electoral history.

oof.

[JokeyLoki]

Originally Posted by TicalFSU

Stolen from a poster on FARK:

A. When Huckabee was Governer of Arkansas, he petititioned the parole board to parole a rapist with 25 years remaining on his sentence.

B. Multiple women and family members begged Huckabee not to allow for his pardon.

C. Once released, the rapist raped and killed two more women. (rapist has since died in jail).

D. Huckabee's people tried to hide all evidence of his involvement by requesting all state agencies send their copies of documents of the episode to the Governor's office. Because once the documents were in the Governors office, the stringent Arkansas freedom of information policies wouldn't apply, meaning the documents couldn't be easily accessed.

E. Huckabee now says that the parole board members are lying, that he never requested this guy be paroled. Further, Huckabee says that only the Democrats on the parole board are saying he asked them to parole this guy.

F. But now, Huckabee's former senior aide (not one of those evil Democrats) confirms that the Huckabee machine has been trying to hide all evidence of this episode. He also confirms that Huckbee did push to have this guy paroled.

And now Huckabee's former senior aide has given the press a bunch of those documents that the Huckabee campaign had been trying to hide.


It doesn't seem to make sense. You may ask yourself, Why in the farking world would Governor Huckabee have wanted a convicted rapist to be released with 25 years left on his sentence?

This is where it gets both crazy and ugly. The crime for which this guy was up for pardon was the rape of a high-school cheerleader who was a distant cousin of then Governor Bill Clinton.

When Clinton became president, some Arkansas Republicans hatched a wacky theory that the rapist was falsely convicted by Bill Clinton's minions. The rapist became a cause celeb of the Arkansas Republican party. (Something like those two imprisoned border guards.)

It's now clear that the Arkansas Republican responsible for this movement had been barking up the wrong tree. Because Clinton had actually recused himself of all involvement with the case, meaning the rapist was convicted entirely on merit. (Also confirmed by the rapists going out and raping and killing some more after he was released)

My personal opinion; this is MUCH WORSE than Willie Horton. Huckabee PERSONALLY petetitioned for this guy's release. Huckabee ignored personal pleas from the former victims and family members. Made worse by the fact that the release was driven by screwball, paranoid, politics. (and Republican hatred of Bill Clinton)

I think Huckabee is TOAST. I'd be shocked if the Romney camp doesn't start using this immediately. They'd be crazy not to, this is a real scandal.

If for some reason, Huckle's Republican competition somehow let him slide on this, the Dems will use this to utterly and completely destroy him in the General. Biggest sweep in electoral history.

I think the site is down right now due to heavy traffic, but after while, check this link out:

http://www.mikehuckabee.com/?FuseAct...ew&Blog_id=841

And click at the bottom to read Huckabee's comments on the whole thing. Alot of what you just posted is probably bullshit. It was Clinton that put the guy up for parole, before Huckabee ever got into office.

[Corganist]

Originally Posted by JokeyLoki

I think the site is down right now due to heavy traffic, but after while, check this link out:

http://www.mikehuckabee.com/?FuseAct...ew&Blog_id=841

And click at the bottom to read Huckabee's comments on the whole thing. Alot of what you just posted is probably bullshit. It was Clinton that put the guy up for parole, before Huckabee ever got into office.

It actually wasn't Clinton, but his successor (Jim Guy Tucker, a democrat) who commuted the sentence down to make Dumond parole eligible. I believe Clinton had recused himself from considering the case due to his distant relationship with the victim.

[jczeroman]

that dirt on Huckabee is almost as bad as Paul not knowing who tom cruise is.

[TuralyonW3]

LOL

[Corganist]

Originally Posted by jczeroman

that dirt on Huckabee is almost as bad as Paul not knowing who tom cruise is.

Man, it's still sticking in your craw that I criticized Ron Paul? So much for it being a ridiculous non-issue.

Anyhow, this stuff about Huckabee only wrecks his chances if the worst of it is true, which is far from certain right now. Like I said above, there's a lot more to the story than "Huckabee releases rapist as a political move though people told him not to."

[redbull]

so much for the concept of sarcasm

[dudehitscar]

Originally Posted by jczeroman

that dirt on Huckabee is almost as bad as Paul not knowing who tom cruise is.