We went to the zoo yesterday! (pictures)

[syntheticdna]

Originally Posted by KrazeeStacee

The only polar bears we're gonna have left are going to be in captivity and they've got it way better in there than out in the arctic.

you can't be serious about that.
Do you honestly believe that zoos (and yes, I ******* "good ones") are the same or even better places to be for wild creatures, where they can neither hunt nor go where they want to, where they are stared and screamed at by people ?

[Nimrod's Son]

Originally Posted by KrazeeStacee

Um this has nothing to do with Gore or politics or debate. Polar bears are an endangered species. If you'd like me to break that down for you even more I can, but I figured you're old enough to understand what that means.

And if you are actually smart enough to correct me by saying NO DUR THEY AREN'T ON TEH ENDANGERED SPECIES LIST AHAAA!!! Well, you're right, technically they aren't yet but they are being considered to be added. Which still means they are in trouble.


Even still...let's not use polar bears as an example then, take a look at this list - http://ecos.fws.gov/tess_public/Spec...source=animals

Zoos (like Brookfield) are trying their best to help as many of these animals procreate as possible to help get them off of that list.

don't misconstrue my slam against the fragility of the polar bear into any distaste for zoos. i love zoos and understand their role in conservation

[jenga66]

Originally Posted by Nimrod's Son

nice puppies exhibit

Hehe, you said it.

Ever been to the zoo....oooonn wweeeeed?

[duovamp]

Originally Posted by Aeroplane

Poor, stupid Aslan.

[KrazeeStacee]

Originally Posted by syntheticdna

you can't be serious about that.
Do you honestly believe that zoos (and yes, I ******* "good ones") are the same or even better places to be for wild creatures, where they can neither hunt nor go where they want to, where they are stared and screamed at by people ?

Did I say wild creatures? No, I said polar bears. Because right now they're starving and drowning left and right even so much so that they're becoming more and more vicious towards humans. Although I can't say for sure, I'm pretty sure that if a polar bear had a choice to rough it out there and possibly drown or starve to death, or come to a nice comfy area he can call his own where people come out and give him food and shelter - he'd probably choose the latter.

And as for screaming at them...any good zoo won't let kids, or even ignorant adults for that matter, get out of hand like that. There are specific rules about what you can and can't do around the exhibits, no flash photography here, no tapping the glass there, no taunting, this animal is being introduced to the exhibit so back off, etc. They allow you to try to get the animals' attention by whistling or clicking but they have people to walk around and tell kids to get the fuck down and shut up and stop bothering the animals.

I know people think that all zoos are good for is for people to gawk and taunt animals, but there are a LOT of people who love to be able to just go somewhere where they can see a real live lion just yards away from them...to sit and relax and just watch the lion go about his business, observe him and learn about him...giving a similar opportunity to those of us that are less fortunate than the people who get to go out and film documentaries in the wild to put on Discovery and National Georgraphic. You can watch all the documentaries you want but you'll never know what it feels like to hear a real lion roar.

But I digress.

[KrazeeStacee]

Originally Posted by Nimrod's Son

don't misconstrue my slam against the fragility of the polar bear into any distaste for zoos. i love zoos and understand their role in conservation

Well regardless, your "slam" is just ignorance, because if you'll notice...they are on the pending list, which I linked to.

[syntheticdna]

alright, let's not focus on the polar bear but wild creatures in general. Taking them out of their natural environments into more or less restricted areas (compared to e.g. national parks) where they are fed and watched ... it's just not right.

[Eulogy]

i haven't been to brookfield in years.

awesome pictures. makes me want to go.

[Mayfuck]

Originally Posted by KrazeeStacee

Yeah you're a fucking idiot then. Because you know what? The only polar bears we're gonna have left are going to be in captivity and they've got it way better in there than out in the arctic. There probably wouldn't be anywhere near as many people fighting for the preservation of our planet and people wouldn't know jack shit about any animal besides dogs, cats, and squirrels...and would be scared of everything and go on living their lives like ignorant humans.

Sorry, but like I said earlier, people who can't see the benifit of zoos and just think they're cruel and the animals are so depressed and sad...you haven't been to a good zoo. And if you have, then you just don't get it.

Do you even know what I said? You posted your pictures on a messageboard and I merely said they made me depressed. I said nothing about the zoo's role in conservation or animal rights. What is depressing about animals in captivity are shown in your pics: baboons and black bears napping on styrofoam rocks, a polar bear playing with a traffic cone, a bear by a pool that appears to be smaller than the one at my old house. This was an aesthetic criticism, and as someone who enjoys hiking in relatively remote (as remote as one can get in California anyway) natural areas, I hate seeing the grandeur of nature--plant, rock and animal alike--shrunk, packaged and displaced to a horrible suburban setting for our fickle amusement. I could talk more about zoos but I don't want to shit on Stacee's Fun Day At the Zoo. I don't know why you get so uppity.

[Ol' Couch Ass]

We should change your name to AmazingStacee!!!

[KrazeeStacee]

I get uppity because that's just part of my personality. I come off sharp, I guess. But that's besides the point.

Okay, yeah I understand you get to walk through the wilderness and see nature at it's finest whenever you feel like putting on some shoes and leaving the house. But a lot of people don't have that luxury and this is the closest we get. Also, to me, it's humbling to be staring face to face with a polar bear or a lion.

You also have to understand that my pictures are mostly all closeups, I tried to take a few pictures of the primate exhibits to show how much work they put into their habitats. Waterfalls and humid fog, real plants native to their natural environments, things for them to play with and things for them to climb on and explore...and even places to hide away in peace if they want to. They also have it set up with an indoor side as well so when they don't feel like being outside they can go inside, it's much bigger than it comes off in the pictures I guess - and they do a damn good job of making their habitats as close to how they would be in nature as possible.

You see it as depressing, I see it as inspirational [that people take the time to care and educate]. It's all about perspective and I do apologize for calling you a fucking idiot, you didn't give me enough information for me to deduct that you were calling it depressing simply because you hate seeing the grandeur of nature shrunk and packed in a horrible suburban setting. My bad, man.

I'll continue this thought with my next response to who's it's up there, so maybe it's a little more understandable to why I don't see it as depressing - at least, in a zoo like this.

[KrazeeStacee]

Originally Posted by Ol' Couch Ass

We should change your name to AmazingStacee!!!

Nah one name change is enough.

[Mayfuck]

Originally Posted by KrazeeStacee

I get uppity because that's just part of my personality. I come off sharp, I guess. But that's besides the point.

Okay, yeah I understand you get to walk through the wilderness and see nature at it's finest whenever you feel like putting on some shoes and leaving the house. But a lot of people don't have that luxury and this is the closest we get.

The closest you get to what? This just one thing I kinda wanted to address in this thread but I didn't want to touch off a debate about zoos (You can't even mention going to the zoo without starting off one of these endless debates.) If it's the closest you can get to nature then really zoos with its suburban park setting isn't really the best thing for this isn't it? You can drive out of the city and experience nature. Obviously you wont see polar bears or spotted snow leopards, but that's because you live in Illinois. You're not supposed to see those things. If you're talking about the closest you can get to animals you wouldn't see that's a bit different but kind of tangent the point I'm trying to get at which is that human's act like it's some kind of right that they need to see these animals up close. I loved the zoo as a kid (honestly I think thats why a lot of people like zoos because its a link to their childhood and there's that factor of innocence we treasure, despite being cognizant of a lot of the negative things zoos present) and I like a lot of people have that wonderment with animals. However I don't find it inspirational or humbling to see this animals up close, as you put it, considering these animals are in a fixed, secure setting behind cages and fences. I would gladly trade in my supervised encounter with an animal if it meant that places on earth which are completely beautiful, foreign, diverse in their own unique ways, were preserved for generations.

OCA was mocking me with the AmazingStacee comment though. I guess I realized I enjoy your uppityness as long as it isn't directed toward me

[KrazeeStacee]

Originally Posted by syntheticdna

alright, let's not focus on the polar bear but wild creatures in general. Taking them out of their natural environments into more or less restricted areas (compared to e.g. national parks) where they are fed and watched ... it's just not right.

I am all for animal rights, trust me. I understand and sympathize with the opinion that putting wild animals into cages can be cruel.

But the way that I see it is, these places are helping and educating. They are at least doing the best job they can to make the exhibits and habitats as close to the natural habitat as possible. They have specialist, scientists, and conservationists constantly trying to find better ways to accomidate for their animals. They want them to be healthy and happy. They aren't circus animals there to entertain, they are representatives of their species where people can go to learn about them. They are cared for, their medical needs are attended to. And while that may not be the "natural" thing or the "right" thing for the animal, but I feel that it's more of a decision you have to weigh...

Is it worth putting these animals in zoos (if we can do our best to make them healthy and happy) if it will educate hundreds upon hundreds of people every year about preserving and respecting our planet and the animals in it? Is it worth it if it even turns one kid from a dog-kicking, cat-burning asshole into a kid who is actually curious about animals and learns to love them and respect them? If you go to that zoo and you see the kids there, and I hate kids, I don't see how it can't warm your heart to see how in love they are with the animals. Those kids could grow up to be marine biologists and veterinarians and all sorts of other very important people in regards to conservation.

I think it's worth it. I've gone to this zoo for years and have seen nothing but improvements and nothing but healthy, cared for animals.

Yeah it would be nice if every place we wanted to accomplish this was in a national park but guess what? Chicago ain't got no national parks, my friend. We have Forest Preserves. And in fact, I believe this zoo was bought over 70 years ago because it used to be where sheep fed but it became too desolate and the Chicago Zoological Society bought it and turned it into one of the best zoos in the country. So now the millions of people that live in and around the Chicago area can have an opportunity to go and learn and enjoy.

Sometimes things aren't always how you would want them to be, but this isn't a perfect world and if a few animals have to be taken from their natural habitats in order to give an opportunity to millions of people that they would otherwise never even dream about...well then, I think it's worth it.

I figured I'd post the link to the zoo anyhow and show you their mission statement:

http://www.brookfieldzoo.org/

A Conservation Center for the Community

The mission of the Chicago Zoological Society is to inspire conservation leadership by connecting people with wildlife and nature. Conservation leadership has been at the heart of the Society since it was founded in 1921. Many of the Society’s efforts can be seen in the exhibits and animals at Brookfield Zoo---but much more goes on behind-the-scenes and in the field. The society’s long-term focus on animal well-being, education, science and field work has helped to cement the organization as a world leader in conservation, ensuring that resources--plants, animals, water, even whole ecosystems—can be available to future generations will be able to enjoy the beauty and the benefits of nature.

The Society envisions Brookfield Zoo as a conservation center for the community and works in four areas to achieve this vision:

* As a model for others, the zoo works to conserve resources and operate in an environmentally responsible, efficient, safe, and sustainable manner.
* As a wildlife, habitat, and ecosystem conservationist, the zoo conducts conservation research, breeds endangered animals, and undertakes and supports field conservation.
* As a community resource and motivator, the zoo helps people care for and about the environment, and promotes conservation actions that you can take.
* As a mentor and trainer, the zoo develops its staff and trains others working for conservation.

Brookfield Zoo continually works to make the best use of its conservation resources: a dedicated and talented group of staff and volunteers; world-class animal and plant collections; extensive zoo grounds; a unique knowledge and research base gathered by staff and others; connections to conservation organizations and governments around the world; and the zoo's finances.

Brookfield Zoo explores, develops, and evaluates new ways and roles to achieve its vision to be a conservation center for the community. The zoo can also help you learn about animals, conservation, and the natural world, and about what we all can do to make a difference.

[sammy khalifa]

Originally Posted by jenga66

I can't wait to visit the Pittsburgh zoo. I haven't been there yet, but it's on my list of things to do. I remember how plain the Los Angeles zoo is. Plus they have some really bad sanitation issues (like roaches scurrying around).

I was just at the Pittsburgh Zoo and it sucked. Mainly had to do with it being a free day at the zoo and all manner of kids and screaming parents were there. I hadn't been there for a few years before that - will have to go back on a normal day.

San Diego zoo, which was the last zoo I went to before that, was amazing.

[Mayfuck]

The San Diego zoo is really good, and an example of what Stacey was talking about when zoo's benefit animals, but honestly most zoos aren't like this. The LA Zoo is horrible. They keep animals pretty confined. Several animals even died due to poor supervision. But back to the SD zoo. The San Diego Zoo is about 2,000 acres, most zoos however are 50-300 acres and you can see how that is not enough for wild animals. The best feature abotu the SD zoo is the free range enclousure where they let antelope, zebras, giraffes, and cheetahs roam around. This is possible because SoCal's climate is not too unlike a lot of sub saharan africa. Also props to the Zoo for saving the california condor, which I recall back when I was kid there were only 22 left, but because of the efforts of the zoo there are now a couple hundred and they are strating to be re introduced into the wild.

[KrazeeStacee]

Originally Posted by Mayfuck

The closest you get to what? This just one thing I kinda wanted to address in this thread but I didn't want to touch off a debate about zoos (You can't even mention going to the zoo without starting off one of these endless debates.) If it's the closest you can get to nature then really zoos with its suburban park setting isn't really the best thing for this isn't it? You can drive out of the city and experience nature. Obviously you wont see polar bears or spotted snow leopards, but that's because you live in Illinois. You're not supposed to see those things. If you're talking about the closest you can get to animals you wouldn't see that's a bit different but kind of tangent the point I'm trying to get at which is that human's act like it's some kind of right that they need to see these animals up close. I loved the zoo as a kid (honestly I think thats why a lot of people like zoos because its a link to their childhood and there's that factor of innocence we treasure, despite being cognizant of a lot of the negative things zoos present) and I like a lot of people have that wonderment with animals. However I don't find it inspirational or humbling to see this animals up close, as you put it, considering these animals are in a fixed, secure setting behind cages and fences. I would gladly trade in my supervised encounter with an animal if it meant that places on earth which are completely beautiful, foreign, diverse in their own unique ways, were preserved for generations.

OCA was mocking me with the AmazingStacee comment though. I guess I realized I enjoy your uppityness as long as it isn't directed toward me

Well I think I basically answered or explained most of why our opinions differ so much in my last post.

But as for driving. You do realize that Chicago is surrounded by hours and hours of suburbs. That's why we have "forest preserves" - little sections of nature that are preserved from construction so that us city dwellers can have someplace nice to go to picnic and watch deer run around. Outside of that, all we have is corn, buddy.

But my point is, I'd probably go drive out because I already have that love for nature and animals and it's something I already would like to do. But think of all the ignorant idiots who don't care to see what's beyond their noses, who don't care to travel and see nature...but they do want to give their kids something to do so they take them on a trip to the zoo. Why? Because it's convenient, and it's accessible. Making knowledge convenient and accessible is top priority in almost any case - animals or not.

I've said it a few times in this thread...how do you think I got to be the crazy animal lover I am? What do you think got me watching Discovery and National Geographic instead of Blind Date or American Idol? Because when I was a kid my parents signed up every year for our Brookfield Zoo membership, we went so many times I probably couldn't even count. I went so much that when we went yesterday - with the exception of a few things that had changed, I knew where everything was and I haven't been there in 5 years. I have hours of video of when we went to the zoo. I don't love the zoo because of some stupid sentimental reasons, I love the zoo because I love animals and I love learning about them and just watching them. So many idiots are scared of bats OMG BATS ARE GONNA GET IN MUH HURR OMGMGGGGG!! I point out the bats flying around at the park and my friends will freak out and go EW! but I don't. I understand they're harmless to you and they won't get tied up in your hair and they're not gonna suck your blood. Why? Because I spent countless hours sitting in the bat cave at Brookfield Zoo with my Dad just watching them in amazement. Giggling as they zoomed past my head across to the other side, wishing I could get close enough to feel their furry little faces.

I know I'm going off here again, but I just hope that you can understand where I'm coming from with all of this. You're entitled to your opinion for sure, but just understand that whether or not you realize it, there are a LOT of people that benifit from zoos that wouldn't be able to do so otherwise. A trip to anywhere else would cost me at least $50 in gas. Yesterday we got to have this great experience for whatever a 20 minute drive costs in gas plus $8 for parking. We went on a free day - so even people who don't have a lot of money to pay the $10 for their kids and their friends...they can take them all there for free and have that experience with them forever.

[KrazeeStacee]

God it's 3:00 already?? Nice.

[KrazeeStacee]

Originally Posted by Eulogy

i haven't been to brookfield in years.

awesome pictures. makes me want to go.

Thanks man. You should go - Thursdays are free for the next 3 months I think. Check the website.

[KrazeeStacee]

Originally Posted by Mayfuck

The San Diego zoo is really good, and an example of what Stacey was talking about when zoo's benefit animals, but honestly most zoos aren't like this. The LA Zoo is horrible. They keep animals pretty confined. Several animals even died due to poor supervision. But back to the SD zoo. The San Diego Zoo is about 2,000 acres, most zoos however are 50-300 acres and you can see how that is not enough for wild animals. The best feature abotu the SD zoo is the free range enclousure where they let antelope, zebras, giraffes, and cheetahs roam around. This is possible because SoCal's climate is not too unlike a lot of sub saharan africa. Also props to the Zoo for saving the california condor, which I recall back when I was kid there were only 22 left, but because of the efforts of the zoo there are now a couple hundred and they are strating to be re introduced into the wild.

See? That's what I mean.

And I know there are bad zoos out there. I don't agree with those zoos but Brookfield and apparently the San Diego zoo are both necessary to set examples of how zoos should be. You know?

[yo soy el mejor]

i wish stacee and julio would stop. i like them both :[

[KrazeeStacee]

We're not being mean, we're just having some healthy discussion that's all. *group hug*

[Mayfuck]

Yeah I can see that. Bringing kids in--especially from rough neighborhoods or lower income families--to see animals hopefully instills in them an early fondness for animals so that they become environmentally conscious adults. Unfortunately it doesn't always work like that. But again, with living in the midwest and being surroudned by cornfields as a disadvantage...well that is just your habitat. LA is even worse. We don't have forest preserves. Everything is paved over for miles and miles and miles. Fortunately we are rimmed in by mountains and oceans, so while we may get to see a mountain lion or sea lion (if we look really really hard), its not like seeing a giraffe or tiger. But guess, thats my habitat and its where I live and I respect that, just like you have your own habitat because when it comes down to it we're animals too with our own unique environments. I don't believe there's anything special about us that we need animals from Asia or the arctic shipped in because I want to see one. It's hard to have respect for our own habitats that we dont respect others in turn. But such is life. Not many people are gonna subscribe to the naturalist approach to nature. Personally my love of animals came from all the camping trips my dad took us on as a kid. The places were gorgeous adn completely different from what I am accustomed to. They were places I only read abuot or saw on TV so it was sublime to experience them on my own. That left a big impression on me as a child. I didn't see any animals but I knew that thats where they lived and places like this aroudn the world need to be protected for these animals to even exist at all. Zoos alerady made me sad even as a kid. Probably because I was a real cynical kid and the reason why I'm such a horrible adult now.

[Mayfuck]

Originally Posted by yo soy el mejor

i wish stacee and julio would stop. i like them both :[

*eskimo kiss*

[Nimrod's Son]

stacy what i was trying to say is that was a nice tits pic

[KrazeeStacee]

And I was trying to ignore that really awkward, creepy comment but hey, thanks for pointing out how much of a dirty old man you are...yet again. I was just gonna let that one go.

[jenga66]

I saw March of the Penguins for the first time tonight. Now I REALLY wanna go to the zoo and see the Penguins....ooonnn wwweeeedd

[avian chaos]

The only zoo I've ever been to was in Costa Rica. That was depressing.

Stacey, I'm surprised you like them so much. I can't help but make an analogy with prison whenever I think of one.

[avian chaos]

Man. I should really try not to be the last person to arrive at these parties. Sheesh.

[waltermcphilp]

DID SOMEBODY SAY "PARTY"?!