oneshare.com: the stupidest thing I've seen today.

Originally posted by Mr. Restroom TP Refiller:
No, any philosophy can achieve great success if implemented properly. Communism just means strong central control, where capitalism means lack of central control. One is not better than the other.

That's why it has never worked, right? Key word, and I'll use it again, idealistic.

No one wants to work for the better of the whole, when their neighbor us doing half, or even less than half.


[This message has been edited by Affectation (edited 07-19-2002).]

Originally posted by Affectation:

That's why it has never worked, right?

No, it hasn't worked because it's tough to put things under strong central control after they've been decentralized for so long. But having strong government ownership in the nation's economy is preferable to what we have now, where business goes mostly unchecked. Why? Because if the government screws you over, you can replace it, but if business screws you over, you're fucked. It's not that complicated.

Originally posted by Affectation:
That's why it has never worked, right?

Name me one communist movement that has ruled for any considerable time WITHOUT some major distraction such as WWII or US/British/IMF/WBO meddling ?

That's not to say Communism can work, but whenever it has been successful in its early stages it has suffered "intervention" and "realignment" by US/British foreign policy and IMF/World Bank interferance, ie Indonesia.

The best examples of cummunism, looking like it might work, has been followed by "civil war", proscriptions, genocide etc. Of course the Western mind thinks that this is all right because communists neverget democratically elected, they just assume power because they're bad.



[This message has been edited by slunky_munky (edited 07-19-2002).]

Originally posted by slunky_munky:
That's not to say Communism can work, but whenever it has been successful in its early stages it has suffered "intervention" and "realignment" by US/British foreign policy and IMF/World Bank interferance, ie Indonesia.

Bingo.

Originally posted by slunky_munky:
Name me one communist movement that has ruled for any considerable time WITHOUT some major distraction such as WWII or US/British/IMF/WBO meddling ?

That's not to say Communism can work, but whenever it has been successful in its early stages it has suffered "intervention" and "realignment" by US/British foreign policy and IMF/World Bank interferance, ie Indonesia.

The best examples of cummunism, looking like it might work, has been followed by "civil war", proscriptions, genocide etc. Of course the Western mind thinks that this is all right because communists neverget democratically elected, they just assume power because they're bad.

[This message has been edited by slunky_munky (edited 07-19-2002).]

There is a difference between the ideal communist society, and the working communist society. Ideal communism will never work.

You are out of your mind, and highly unrealistic if you think that it can.

TP, you're just running at the mouth. Trying to rationalize the fact that it can't work. What the fuck are we talking about?


[This message has been edited by Affectation (edited 07-19-2002).]

move to cuba, tell us how much better it is there

communism has no chance for improvement, at least with capiltalism/democracy people are constantly striving for better things and changes are feasible

plus there is the whole government run media which pretty much blows

Originally posted by Affectation:

Ideal communism will never work.

agreed. humans are not good. we must be good and there must be no corruption for the ideal communist society. and that's just not gunna happen. it's nice ot think it will, but fuck, there's no way.

Originally posted by Affectation:
There is a difference between the ideal communist society, and the working communist society. Ideal communism will never work.

You are out of your mind, and highly unrealistic if you think that it can.

TP, you're just running at the mouth. Trying to rationalize the fact that it can't work. What the fuck are we talking about?

I still can't understand why you think that strong government control and protection is bad, but that big businesses ruining the future financial lives of millions of people is at least tolerable.



[This message has been edited by Mr. Restroom TP Refiller (edited 07-19-2002).]

there's 1, one government and thousands of businesses...with the chance to start your own

tough choice

Originally posted by Affectation:
[b]There is a difference between the ideal communist society, and the working communist society. Ideal communism will never work.
You are out of your mind, and highly unrealistic if you think that it can.

[b]

I never implied that it can work.

We just have examples where parts of it have worked only to be interupted by western-capitalist meddling.

Originally posted by slunky_munky:
I never implied that it can work.

We just have examples where parts of it have worked only to be interupted by western-capitalist meddling.

Of course anything can work temporarily.

What is your point. You were pressing me to tell you where it hasn't been interrupted. There is a reason that there has always been an "interruption" in communism. Be it internal, or external.

TP, I don't think that either are perfect. I'm more than content in the society in which I live. Bitching and moaning because we aren't at perfection is pointless.

Is this another instance where, "you debated me into the ground?" Dumbass.

Originally posted by bittertrance:
move to cuba, tell us how much better it is there

communism has no chance for improvement, at least with capiltalism/democracy people are constantly striving for better things and changes are feasible

plus there is the whole government run media which pretty much blows

You do realise the STUPIDITY in using that as your text book example when that nation has had decades of economic sactions ?

Cuba does however offer its citizens better access to health and a higher literacy rate than most developed nations. Unfortunately it means jack shit if the country is financially crippled.

You know if you have a cripple on the floor and someone tells you that the cripple can walk, you might be inclined to kick the cripple while their down. Nevermind that they can't walk anyway, but put the boot in, and proclaim "see, they can't walk. (Cue Clint to tell me that it's a bad analogy).

Originally posted by slunky_munky:
You do realise the STUPIDITY in using that as your text book example when that nation has had decades of economic sactions ?

Cuba does however offer its citizens better access to health and a higher literacy rate than most developed nations. Unfortunately it means jack shit if the country is financially crippled.

You know if you have a cripple on the floor and someone tells you that the cripple can walk, you might be inclined to kick the cripple while their down. Nevermind that they can't walk anyway, but put the boot in, and proclaim "see, they can't walk. (Cue Clint to tell me that it's a bad analogy).

i was seriously telling you to live there and report to us if it is better....you seem to think it is...soooo?

Originally posted by Affectation:

Of course anything can work temporarily.

So the imposition of capitalist ideology by western governments stalls the progression of Left-leaning systems and you beleive that it doesn't matter that they had some level of success to that point because it was just a "honeymoon period", that eventually they would have to find something new anyway ?

We've never had a communist party in power long enough to establish that they funde****lly can't work. When they fail it is often by force, and that force is often backed, supplied or simply IS from the big capitalist nations (US, UK, Europe, Australia).

Originally posted by Affectation:

What is your point. You were pressing me to tell you where it hasn't been interrupted. There is a reason that there has always been an "interruption" in communism. Be it internal, or external.

The reason is often that communist systems aren't friendly towards the US dollar. Pure and simple.

Originally posted by slunky_munky:
The reason is often that communist systems aren't friendly towards the US dollar. Pure and simple.

No shit. Simple logic also plays a large part.

...and the Western (Capitalist) backed deaths of tens of millions of people in South East Asia in the last 25 years.

You could say genocide plays a part too. But that's the Capitalist way and we have to be thankful for that otherwise no Levis or Nikes. Besides, who's going to make them for us ?

After the US moral crusade into Vietnam the nation could proudly boast "the cheapest workers in Asia". They are better off for it.

You thinking that everything can be better is nice.

No what is nice is the idea that western governments decide what is best for other nations.

Funding, supplying and trainging Pol Pot did Cambodia a world of good. Sarcasm aside, how could things be any worse ?

These things that our governments do make things better for us, not the vast majority of people in the world living in poverty.

How can a capitalist system imposed on a nation like Indonesia benefit that nation when it owes the US and chums 250% of its GDP ?

When 98% of the population of Timor can vote in an election and then have the US and Britain stir up decades of genocide so that a pro-western (right wing) system can be imposed you can only be offended by it. Of course so few people actually vote in American elections I guess they don't actually value the right to democratic process, ie deciding what is right for yourself.

Get the fuck off your pedestal. I doubt that anyone is listening. You are accomplishing nothing.

sally struthers, ladies and gentlemen...she'll be here all week

does it make you uncomfortable ?

Originally posted by slunky_munky:
does it make you uncomfortable ?

Hardly.

Originally posted by Affectation:
Hardly.

You do sound like you're struggling under the weight of a better argument. If you're not going to concede to a few points then you're better just leaving the thread than posting 'shut up' and 'nobody is listening.' He has some good points and you know it

Originally posted by DeviousJ:
You do sound like you're struggling under the weight of a better argument. If you're not going to concede to a few points then you're better just leaving the thread than posting 'shut up' and 'nobody is listening.' He has some good points and you know it

His/Her "points" are irrelevant. They are preaching about the greatness that communism "could" become. However, it's 100% impossible. It's human nature to strive to become ones best. And without recognition with money/power/respect, no one will feel like anything is worth it. I hate this word because I've used it so many times in this post. But their ideas of Communism are a fanciful idealistic utopia. Something that is never going to happen.

Originally posted by Ammy:

agreed. humans are not good. we must be good and there must be no corruption for the ideal communist society. and that's just not gunna happen. it's nice ot think it will, but fuck, there's no way.

Well, thanks for adding something new and insightful into the conversation, Idiot.

Originally posted by This Naked Chef:
Well, thanks for adding something new and insightful into the conversation, Idiot.

Nice username, faggot.

Originally posted by Affectation:
His/Her "points" are irrelevant. They are preaching about the greatness that communism "could" become. However, it's 100% impossible. It's human nature to strive to become ones best. And without recognition with money/power/respect, no one will feel like anything is worth it. I hate this word because I've used it so many times in this post. But their ideas of Communism are a fanciful idealistic utopia. Something that is never going to happen.

Communism isn't supposed to be a utopia any more than capitalism. I mean, Capitalism is about doing it for yourself, making it on your own - kind of an autonomy if you like. What we have instead is a few people at the top of the pile, making it as hard as possible for anyone else to get their share of the potential. So much so, that corporations are able to influence governments around the world with their sheer economic weight - it's not a good situation as it is. Communism has its potential flaws in the same way, but you can't dismiss it on that merit. Hell, Cuba's not doing too badly considering

Originally posted by DeviousJ:
Communism isn't supposed to be a utopia any more than capitalism. I mean, Capitalism is about doing it for yourself, making it on your own - kind of an autonomy if you like. What we have instead is a few people at the top of the pile, making it as hard as possible for anyone else to get their share of the potential. So much so, that corporations are able to influence governments around the world with their sheer economic weight - it's not a good situation as it is. Communism has its potential flaws in the same way, but you can't dismiss it on that merit. Hell, Cuba's not doing too badly considering

Cuba is probably the worst example that you could have thrown out. They now have their upper and lower class people, with little in the mid range.

Communism is a joke. It's a self fulfilling answer. It can't work because the structure is flawed. And this is the example that pro communists (like slunky_whateverthefuck) use. It doesn't work because it can't. Not because it's been interrupted.

Originally posted by Affectation:
Cuba is probably the worst example that you could have thrown out. They now have their upper and lower class people, with little in the mid range.

Communism is a joke. It's a self fulfilling answer. It can't work because the structure is flawed. And this is the example that pro communists (like slunky_whateverthefuck) use. It doesn't work because it can't. Not because it's been interrupted.

If it "doesn't work", then why is it that everytime capitalism begins to falter (early 30's, late 60's), we turn to pro-socialistic/communistic solutions to bail it out (New Deal, Great Society).

[This message has been edited by Mr. Restroom TP Refiller (edited 07-20-2002).]

Originally posted by Mr. Restroom TP Refiller:
If it "doesn't work", then why is it that everytime capitalism begins to falter (early 30's, late 60's), we turn to pro-socialistic/communistic solutions to bail it out (New Deal, Great Society).

[This message has been edited by Mr. Restroom TP Refiller (edited 07-20-2002).]

Full time, Mr. I need to edit every post that I make?