friends who kill themselves

Originally posted by 17 years of compassion:
and what about all the people who do it for selfish reasons?

In these situations, maybe the people seeking attention honestly do need some attention in their lives. They definitely need to start being truthful to themselves and therefore find a way to mature. Some people act macho for attention, some people swallow pills, other become rock stars. *shrug*

Originally posted by Osaka:
suicide is stupid.

so profound... so deep...
ur incredible

Originally posted by BlueStar:
There is nothing selfish about suicide. The person trying to end his/her life fully believes that no one around him/her cares and that the people who do care are better without him/her.

Yeah, but that's not necessarily correct, logical thinking on the part of the depressed person. Just because I think the sky is orange, doesn't mean it actually is.

Originally posted by 17 years of compassion:

and what about all the people who do it for selfish reasons?
i know this person who tried to kill themself coz they had pissed every1 off around them and felt it would get people to pay attention to them again!! some of my friends fell for it, and when they got back from the hospital said they were loving the attention!! they could of died just to get back in favour with others!!!
i didnt want them to die but im not going to feel bad for THIER selfish reasons for trying to kill themselves!!

Good one. You find ONE example of someone using suicide for selfish ends and expect that to be an argument for "suicide is selfish". Of course there will be some people who do it out of purely selfish means but you can't tar everyone with that brush.

Any argument that says "what about the people you leave behind" is no less selfish than any suicidal motive. Simple as that.

Originally posted by Affectation:
Fuck that bitch. 20 xanax is a pussy way to off yourself. It's very hard to kill yourself with xanax.

But an easy way to cry for help, perhaps?

This, of course, is the root of the problem.


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http://www.phatjoe.com/lameass/icons/panda.gif Darnce, Panda!

my dad killed himself when i was 14...

one of my friends is worrying the shit out of me. they are just not taking care of themself. i dont know what i would do without her though http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/frown.gif

Originally posted by Irrelevant:
if they really cared about you, they'd let you end your pain. they're the selfish ones, for demanding that you be alive and be around. i already said that, dipshit.

weak. you have obviously never had a suicidal friend, or a friend that committed suicide.

you can argue your little ideologies and theories, but you wouldn't let a friend or loved one die, so shut up.

Yeah, it sucks when friends kill themselves. I mean, jeez, especially if they were cool and you were getting cool points by hanging out with them. And, my god, when you actually have a thing for them and are hoping to get laid, that blows, man. Let's all let out a loud BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO for friends who kill themselves. Definite thumbs-down, that.

Originally posted by Undone:
In these situations, maybe the people seeking attention honestly do need some attention in their lives. They definitely need to start being truthful to themselves and therefore find a way to mature. Some people act macho for attention, some people swallow pills, other become rock stars. *shrug*

so why is my 'friend' still being so nasty to every1? not all of them are 'ill' with depresion, infact i say that the majority werent 'ill' at all! my 'friend' had a loving family, nice friends and not a care in the world then THEY fucked it all up for themselves by being evil and then want people to talk to them again! so insted of healing old wounds they decide that if they try to comit suicide it will make every1 feel sorry for them. and that my friend is bull shit on a stick about all of them being ill!! yes some people do comit suicide because they are depressed but most dont. all my so called friend managed to do was fuck things up even more for themselves.
this is why i say most people that take their own life do it for selfish reasons. if they ask for help im sure in most cases help would be there for them and you know thats the truth.

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Originally posted by THRILLHO:
weak. you have obviously never had a suicidal friend, or a friend that committed suicide.

you can argue your little ideologies and theories, but you wouldn't let a friend or loved one die, so shut up.

Friendship clouds moral judgement. The fact is that you would go to more trouble to save a friend than you would a stranger which in itself shows the selfishness of it.

We understand suicide through our own pain. How can anyone appreciate what another person feels ?

Originally posted by slunky_munky:
Good one. You find ONE example of someone using suicide for selfish ends and expect that to be an argument for "suicide is selfish". Of course there will be some people who do it out of purely selfish means but you can't tar everyone with that brush.

Any argument that says "what about the people you leave behind" is no less selfish than any suicidal motive. Simple as that.

i know a lot of other people who do it, or try to do it coz they think its how to gain support/friends!! 'every1 around me will say how kool i am for trying to kill myself then every1 will love me forever! and all the boies/girls i like will be so much more caring around me!! itll be like a dream come true!!'
tell me you dont know any people who think like that? granted it is the majority of 10 to 25 yr olds but it still is a lot of people?! and what worse out siders then blame it on the music the person lisens to. most of the people i know blame it on the music they listen to! as if all rock fans kill themselves!! but because they have been told thats what happens thats what they do!!

I work with suicidal people at the place where I volunteer, and as far as I can tell it's an incredibly difficult thing to understand that no one can really judge, because everyones situation and reasons are completely different.

Originally posted by Homerpalooza:

I have a friend who let his best friend kill himself. He ignored all warning signs and just didn't care. Now he's become a complete wreck. Believe me, when you experience something like that firsthand, you'll see it differently.

So this guys best friend basically ignored him when he needed him the most? That was probably one of the reasons why the kid killed himself...not his friend's direct influence, but the feeling of "noone cares about me, I don't care about me...so what's the point?"

I can't speak for everyone obviously, but it seems that those who consider suicide *probably* know (and I mean the word "know", not think or believe, in that they have assured themselves) that noone cares about them, that life is meaningless, and that death is a much better alternative to the hell hole they live in every day of their lives. I'm not saying that you should let someone kill themself without doing everything you can to help, but saying "it's selfish" is not the way to think of it. People (in my opinion) who kill themselves "know" that nobody does care, that their death won't affect anyone in a tremendously negative way, and that everyone/thing will be better off if they were dead. So why should they go through Hell for no reason?

Originally posted by Junebug:
So this guys best friend basically ignored him when he needed him the most? That was probably one of the reasons why the kid killed himself...not his friend's direct influence, but the feeling of "noone cares about me, I don't care about me...so what's the point?"

I can't speak for everyone obviously, but it seems that those who consider suicide *probably* know (and I mean the word "know", not think or believe, in that they have assured themselves) that noone cares about them, that life is meaningless, and that death is a much better alternative to the hell hole they live in every day of their lives. I'm not saying that you should let someone kill themself without doing everything you can to help, but saying "it's selfish" is not the way to think of it. People (in my opinion) who kill themselves "know" that nobody does care, that their death won't affect anyone in a tremendously negative way, and that everyone/thing will be better off if they were dead. So why should they go through Hell for no reason?

fucking exactly.

this SHOULD be obvious as hell to anyone thats not a complete fucking imbecile. but as you can tell not only here, but in reality, people are purely selfish and full of shit. oh well though. those are the ones that get brought down by the tiniest petty bullshit in life, and its fucking hilarious when it happenes. stupid motherfuckers. heh.

I guess we've established that there are two types of suicide: successful and unsuccessful.


I'm sure that many of those that failed actually planned to fail so they could enjoy the results.

As for those that succeded in death we can't assume anything about their motives other than that they got what they wanted.

Originally posted by Junebug:
So this guys best friend basically ignored him when he needed him the most? That was probably one of the reasons why the kid killed himself...not his friend's direct influence, but the feeling of "noone cares about me, I don't care about me...so what's the point?"

I can't speak for everyone obviously, but it seems that those who consider suicide *probably* know (and I mean the word "know", not think or believe, in that they have assured themselves) that noone cares about them, that life is meaningless, and that death is a much better alternative to the hell hole they live in every day of their lives. I'm not saying that you should let someone kill themself without doing everything you can to help, but saying "it's selfish" is not the way to think of it. People (in my opinion) who kill themselves "know" that nobody does care, that their death won't affect anyone in a tremendously negative way, and that everyone/thing will be better off if they were dead. So why should they go through Hell for no reason?

Kudos.

all the people that consider all suicide to be selfish seriously need to get down from their moral high horses and go fuck themselves.

Originally posted by Junebug:
So this guys best friend basically ignored him when he needed him the most? That was probably one of the reasons why the kid killed himself...not his friend's direct influence, but the feeling of "noone cares about me, I don't care about me...so what's the point?"

I can't speak for everyone obviously, but it seems that those who consider suicide *probably* know (and I mean the word "know", not think or believe, in that they have assured themselves) that noone cares about them, that life is meaningless, and that death is a much better alternative to the hell hole they live in every day of their lives. I'm not saying that you should let someone kill themself without doing everything you can to help, but saying "it's selfish" is not the way to think of it. People (in my opinion) who kill themselves "know" that nobody does care, that their death won't affect anyone in a tremendously negative way, and that everyone/thing will be better off if they were dead. So why should they go through Hell for no reason?

Just joining the club of people giving this post a thumbs up.

Originally posted by Junebug:
So this guys best friend basically ignored him when he needed him the most? That was probably one of the reasons why the kid killed himself...not his friend's direct influence, but the feeling of "noone cares about me, I don't care about me...so what's the point?"

I'd hold off on speculating why he killed himself. You don't know him, neither do I really, so neither of us know his real cause. So, I wouldn't be so presumptuous.

Originally posted by Junebug:
I can't speak for everyone obviously, but it seems that those who consider suicide *probably* know (and I mean the word "know", not think or believe, in that they have assured themselves) that noone cares about them, that life is meaningless, and that death is a much better alternative to the hell hole they live in every day of their lives. I'm not saying that you should let someone kill themself without doing everything you can to help, but saying "it's selfish" is not the way to think of it. People (in my opinion) who kill themselves "know" that nobody does care, that their death won't affect anyone in a tremendously negative way, and that everyone/thing will be better off if they were dead. So why should they go through Hell for no reason?

I agree with most of what you say, it was well stated. I guess what we disagree with is whether the person is so delusional that he thinks no one will miss him, or whether he knows that others will miss him and goes through with it anyway. We've both made sweeping assumptions regarding those considering suicide. I guess it makes more sense to see it as a case-by-case basis.

But honestly, I think those who consider suicide at least have an inkling that he'll be missed by others, yet considers his living Hell so bad that it doesn't matter. And that's what pisses me off. People who think that because times are tough at the moment, the rest of their life is completely not worth living. Short-sightedness is such bullshit.