Zeitgeist. To thin?

jae the pumpkin · 06-20-2007, 03:36 PM

As a long standing lover and devout fan of The Smashing Pumpkins, I have never defined the Pumpkins sounds as thin or non fulfilling (in a production sense). After waiting much time to here the new sound and evolution of the Pumpkins and now hearing it, I am disappointed in the production and dynamics that the old Pumpkins so gracefully fulfilled. I am not here to bitch or complain like most of the ignorant fools that swarm this hilarious yet informative message board, I just want feedback on my analytical ideas on the sound of the new Pumpkins.

Has anyone wandered where the depth is? The wall to wall guitars that Billy so violently produced during the 90's? Jimmy's thundering drums that stand out rather than being tucked underneath Billy's vocals and waling guitars? The production of this album sounds as though it is a rough mix. I would think that Billy Corgan, of all people, would raise hell about this. The songs are missing emotion and feeling that Corgan gave us during his era, but that doesn't mean they are terrible songs. I feel as though most of the failure, in my eyes, goes to the production and mastering of these songs.

Ideas?

Dogfighter28 · 06-20-2007, 03:36 PM

Yeah, the production is crap. Billy is starting to record like his musical heroes, which is a bad bad thing. (See: Cheap Trick, Scorpions, Van Halen)

likeicare · 06-20-2007, 03:39 PM

kevin shields should have produced zeitgeist !

Patuquitos · 06-20-2007, 03:39 PM

I think Billy has overreacted to the overproduction critics.
Now we're left with with an album that will likely sound like "MCIS demos" with vocals.

SpFission · 06-20-2007, 03:41 PM

Perhaps. I just listened to Porcelina of the Vast Oceans and the production on that song is superb.

queundoguero · 06-20-2007, 03:50 PM

I know alot of you hate Butch Vig, but what wuold happen if he worked with the band again? although i always felt like Garbage's later albums were WAY overproduced. Could he give them the feel they had on SD? I'm not saying re-do this album, im talking about their next album... or what if they teamed up with Flood and Alan Moulder again?

Virex Kills · 06-20-2007, 03:51 PM

To thin or not to thin?

andrewface · 06-20-2007, 03:53 PM

doomsday clock sounds wicked...the guitars are so thick and heavy lots of bottom end...but not too much...vocal mix is different you guys gotta learn to live with it tho...

BrokenGourds · 06-20-2007, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by queundoguero

I know alot of you hate Butch Vig, but what wuold happen if he worked with the band again? although i always felt like Garbage's later albums were WAY overproduced. Could he give them the feel they had on SD? I'm not saying re-do this album, im talking about their next album... or what if they teamed up with Flood and Alan Moulder again?

at least they're not working with Rick Rubin.

BuriedSoftly · 06-20-2007, 03:59 PM

I don't have any ideas, but I definitely agree about it being thin.

likeicare · 06-20-2007, 04:01 PM

The way the songs are mixed clearly shows that it was on purpose... it's not like they wouldn't know how to build a wall of sounds if they wanted so... They just wanted to make it sound like this... Why ? Beats me

smashingpumpkin · 06-20-2007, 04:02 PM

Quote:

doomsday clock sounds wicked...the guitars are so thick and heavy lots of bottom end...but not too much...vocal mix is different you guys gotta learn to live with it tho...

yeah learn to live with crap. hopefully the rest of the mixes arent so blatantly hurting. i was listening to ride a black swan just now then DC right after. oh brother. whoever said DC sounds like a demo is spot on. so thin bro, like wafer crisps. zeigeist is a wafer crisp. toss me a wafer crisp.

Spaceboy88 · 06-20-2007, 04:17 PM

I personally think it sounds 100x better than the shit job Flood did.

The only producer to capture the magic of Billy's seemingly endless overdubbed guitars is Butch Vig. MCIS would sound a lot better if he was in charge of the production. It always sounded too muddled to me.

nii-o · 06-20-2007, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by likeicare

kevin shields should have produced zeitgeist !

speaker busting

mv2007 · 06-20-2007, 05:01 PM

I think it sounds pretty thick, but I've only listened to it at high volume thru really nice headphones.

May sound totally different in a car, home stereo, etc...

Rarely · 06-20-2007, 05:09 PM

i like how there are only 3 legit posters in this thread (ie: not trolls), and one of them happens to be me

thurston · 06-20-2007, 05:25 PM

all i gotta say is that the drumming on dc really fucking sucks, jimmy deserves a little more attention than that no?

TuralyonW3 · 06-20-2007, 05:39 PM

it hurts my hears when I crank it up in my car, too trebly or something

Corgan Rules · 06-20-2007, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smashingpumpkin

yeah learn to live with crap. hopefully the rest of the mixes arent so blatantly hurting. i was listening to ride a black swan just now then DC right after. oh brother. whoever said DC sounds like a demo is spot on. so thin bro, like wafer crisps. zeigeist is a wafer crisp. toss me a wafer crisp.

WAAAA!! Stop your crying like a little fuckin girl! Pull up your fuckin skirt... Stop bitching and whining about Billys music. Take it or leave it! YOu guys just way over analyze his music and it gets annoying....

djm5101 · 06-20-2007, 05:54 PM

the new production sounds so wide, similar to SD. its just more muddy and the highs are a little too high (esp the vocals)...sometimes i can't help but to cringe when billy sings a high note.

Corgan Rules · 06-20-2007, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djm5101

the new production sounds so wide, similar to SD. its just more muddy and the highs are a little too high (esp the vocals)...sometimes i can't help but to cringe when billy sings a high note.

Too bad I guess.... I dont have that problem. I think he sounds great on these 2 songs so far and I think peope are way over analyzing it.

How can you people cringe when he sings high and not when he screams?? I just listen to the music and enjoy it for what it is...new Pumpkins music and it's solid too.

omz · 06-20-2007, 06:02 PM

keep in mind this track originates from an ultra-shitty 128kb AAC file. and then the file that most people are listening to was reencoded from that to 192kb mp3. not really the optimum situation to be judging the production.

i have a really nice system and this track rocks when cranked up.

the lossless version of Tarantula sounds so much better than any of the mp3's...

whiteskwirl · 06-20-2007, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by omz

keep in mind this track originates from an ultra-shitty 128kb AAC file. and then the file that most people are listening to was reencoded from that to 192kb mp3. not really the optimum situation to be judging the production.

i have a really nice system and this track rocks when cranked up.

the lossless version of Tarantula sounds so much better than any of the mp3's...

It'll still be the same mix, regardless of the sound quality.

06-20-2007, 03:36 PM	#1
jae the pumpkin Amish Rake Fighter Location: crazy world Posts: 17	Zeitgeist. To thin? As a long standing lover and devout fan of The Smashing Pumpkins, I have never defined the Pumpkins sounds as thin or non fulfilling (in a production sense). After waiting much time to here the new sound and evolution of the Pumpkins and now hearing it, I am disappointed in the production and dynamics that the old Pumpkins so gracefully fulfilled. I am not here to bitch or complain like most of the ignorant fools that swarm this hilarious yet informative message board, I just want feedback on my analytical ideas on the sound of the new Pumpkins. Has anyone wandered where the depth is? The wall to wall guitars that Billy so violently produced during the 90's? Jimmy's thundering drums that stand out rather than being tucked underneath Billy's vocals and waling guitars? The production of this album sounds as though it is a rough mix. I would think that Billy Corgan, of all people, would raise hell about this. The songs are missing emotion and feeling that Corgan gave us during his era, but that doesn't mean they are terrible songs. I feel as though most of the failure, in my eyes, goes to the production and mastering of these songs. Ideas?

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06-20-2007, 03:36 PM	#2
Dogfighter28 BEAST JESUS Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 10,000	Yeah, the production is crap. Billy is starting to record like his musical heroes, which is a bad bad thing. (See: Cheap Trick, Scorpions, Van Halen)

06-20-2007, 03:39 PM	#3
likeicare Ownz Location: the middle of a reptile zoo, and somebody is giving booze to these goddamn things. Won't be long now before they tear us to shreds. Posts: 570	kevin shields should have produced zeitgeist !

06-20-2007, 03:39 PM	#4
Patuquitos Pledge Location: Madrid, the city of tunnels Posts: 169	I think Billy has overreacted to the overproduction critics. Now we're left with with an album that will likely sound like "MCIS demos" with vocals.

06-20-2007, 03:41 PM	#5
SpFission Apocalyptic Poster Location: MA Posts: 2,905	Perhaps. I just listened to Porcelina of the Vast Oceans and the production on that song is superb.

06-20-2007, 03:50 PM	#6
queundoguero Pledge Posts: 231	I know alot of you hate Butch Vig, but what wuold happen if he worked with the band again? although i always felt like Garbage's later albums were WAY overproduced. Could he give them the feel they had on SD? I'm not saying re-do this album, im talking about their next album... or what if they teamed up with Flood and Alan Moulder again?

06-20-2007, 03:51 PM	#7
Virex Kills Apocalyptic Poster Posts: 1,052	To thin or not to thin?

06-20-2007, 03:53 PM	#8
andrewface Ownz Posts: 945	doomsday clock sounds wicked...the guitars are so thick and heavy lots of bottom end...but not too much...vocal mix is different you guys gotta learn to live with it tho...

06-20-2007, 03:59 PM	#10
BuriedSoftly Pledge Location: Right down the middle of the boardwalk. Posts: 151	I don't have any ideas, but I definitely agree about it being thin.

06-20-2007, 04:01 PM	#11
likeicare Ownz Location: the middle of a reptile zoo, and somebody is giving booze to these goddamn things. Won't be long now before they tear us to shreds. Posts: 570	The way the songs are mixed clearly shows that it was on purpose... it's not like they wouldn't know how to build a wall of sounds if they wanted so... They just wanted to make it sound like this... Why ? Beats me

06-20-2007, 04:17 PM	#13
Spaceboy88 Apocalyptic Poster Location: NYC Posts: 1,029	I personally think it sounds 100x better than the shit job Flood did. The only producer to capture the magic of Billy's seemingly endless overdubbed guitars is Butch Vig. MCIS would sound a lot better if he was in charge of the production. It always sounded too muddled to me.

06-20-2007, 05:01 PM	#15
mv2007 Ownz Location: Washington, DC Posts: 557	I think it sounds pretty thick, but I've only listened to it at high volume thru really nice headphones. May sound totally different in a car, home stereo, etc...

06-20-2007, 05:09 PM	#16
Rarely Shh Posts: 3,782	i like how there are only 3 legit posters in this thread (ie: not trolls), and one of them happens to be me

06-20-2007, 05:25 PM	#17
thurston Demi-God Posts: 499	all i gotta say is that the drumming on dc really fucking sucks, jimmy deserves a little more attention than that no?

06-20-2007, 05:39 PM	#18
TuralyonW3 Immortal Location: WPB FL Posts: 22,297	it hurts my hears when I crank it up in my car, too trebly or something

06-20-2007, 05:54 PM	#20
djm5101 Pledge Posts: 81	the new production sounds so wide, similar to SD. its just more muddy and the highs are a little too high (esp the vocals)...sometimes i can't help but to cringe when billy sings a high note.

06-20-2007, 06:02 PM	#22
omz Pledge Posts: 80	keep in mind this track originates from an ultra-shitty 128kb AAC file. and then the file that most people are listening to was reencoded from that to 192kb mp3. not really the optimum situation to be judging the production. i have a really nice system and this track rocks when cranked up. the lossless version of Tarantula sounds so much better than any of the mp3's...