What should the USA income taxes be?

[dudehitscar]

2007 Federal Tax Brackets



The US federal income tax system is progressive. This means that income is taxed in layers, with a higher tax rate applied to each layer. These are the tax rates for each pay scale.

Tax Brackets for 2006: Individuals

Annual Pay Tax %

0-7,825 10%

7,825-31,850 15%

31,850 - 77,100 25%

77,100 -160,850 28%

160,850 - 349,700 33%

over 349,700 35%



QUESTION: What do you think the taxes should be and why?

Note: Keep in mind that these taxes are taken after 401(k) contributions, and people get money back from deductions on mortgage payments and other things.
So in most cases you end up paying less than this from your total annual salary.

[GlasgowKiss]

Since civil society and the arbitrary removal of property from common ownership are the only reasons anyone could earn obscene amounts they should pay far more back than they do now to ensure that there is ample access to basic modern needs like housing, welfare and healthcare for those who are benefitting the least and great public education to allow those born into poverty the best chance, to first and foremost, cultivate an intelligent, compassionate and knowledgeable mind and second, to succeed in the world of work.

This is probably the closest iv come to trolling on here, sadly.

[dudehitscar]

Originally Posted by GlasgowKiss

Since civil society and the arbitrary removal of property from common ownership are the only reasons anyone could earn obscene amounts they should pay far more back than they do now to ensure that there is ample access to basic modern needs like housing, welfare and healthcare for those who are benefitting the least and great public education to allow those born into poverty the best chance, to first and foremost, cultivate an intelligent and knowledgeable mind and second, to succeed in the world of work.

This is probably the closest iv come to trolling on here, sadly.

How about some specifics???? Put a number to your ideas. Don't be shy.

[GlasgowKiss]

Whatever the taxes are in france. And then add 5% for the corruption and greed of those in US government. Hopefully this will be a short term hike, since eventually they'll die out and be replaced by model citizens.

[smurfing]

the only issue i have with those numbers is whether a person has a right to make something like 45 million a year or not. on the one hand i think someone who reinvents the wheel has a right to 65% of his 10 million. on the other hand i dont think pop stars, rappers, athletes or business pirates have "earned" theirs nor do i think there should be a gigantic incentive to herd others towards those occupations and it would be better if 80% of it was taken away from them.

[dudehitscar]

Originally Posted by smurfing

the only issue i have with those numbers is whether a person has a right to make something like 45 million a year or not. on the one hand i think someone who reinvents the wheel has a right to 65% of his 10 million. on the other hand i dont think pop stars, rappers, athletes or business pirates have "earned" theirs nor do i think there should be a gigantic incentive to herd others towards those occupations and it would be better if 80% of it was taken away from them.

Ok so what you are saying is that you want the government to give each occupation it's own tax bracket.

[GlasgowKiss]

Originally Posted by dudehitscar

Ok so what you are saying is that you want the government to give each occupation it's own tax bracket.

Ok so what you are asking is did he actually mean what he was just saying regarding taxing earned money from constructive vs. leechy occupations.

[jczeroman]

Annual Pay Tax %

0-7,825 0%

7,825-31,850 0%

31,850 - 77,100 0%

77,100 -160,850 0%

160,850 - 349,700 0%

over 349,700 0%

[dudehitscar]

Originally Posted by jczeroman

Annual Pay Tax %

0-7,825 0%

7,825-31,850 0%

31,850 - 77,100 0%

77,100 -160,850 0%

160,850 - 349,700 0%

over 349,700 0%

I knew you wouldn't dissappoint jczeroman.

[Mayfuck]

100%

and make everything in the world free

[sppunk]

>0: 25 percent

[dudehitscar]

< poverty level 0%. I would think the taxes obtained do not equal the cost of obtaining them for this income level.

up to 35,000. 15%

35,000 - 55,000 16%

55,000-75000 18%

75,000 - 150,000 20%

150,000 - 300,000 25 %

300,000 - 500,000 30%

500,000 - 1 million 35%

1 million - 20 million 40%

> 20 million 60%

Estate tax: Any citizen is allowed to inherit up to 1 million dollars. Everything else is taken. I believe that people should make money by earning money. Being born into a rich family is not earning anything. 1 million dollars is more than enough to give any person the resources to do what they want to do in life(college, house, etc) anything more is excessive.

[Cup O Mercury]

Our taxes are low. And they should stay that way. People need to be able to keep most of their money so that they can spend money, so that others can earn money, thus stimulated the economy.
When the Democrats win they will raise taxes, and we will no longer have this booming economy. Their taxes will go to social programs that will decrease the peoples insintive to work hard, thus retarding the economy. Besides, It’s not what your county can do for you it’s what you can do for your county.
These are Bushes tax brackets and they work. This system brought in more revenue then ever.
A government with more taxes is a bigger government, a more powerful government, a more tyrannical government, a more oppressive and more evil government. I don't want my government to have more money. I want them to have LESS money. The more broke my government is, the happier I am because they have less power. Government is an evil, a necessary evil which should be no bigger than absolutely necessary.

[Corganist]

Originally Posted by dudehitscar

< poverty level 0%. I would think the taxes obtained do not equal the cost of obtaining them for this income level.

up to 35,000. 15%

35,000 - 55,000 16%

55,000-75000 18%

75,000 - 150,000 20%

150,000 - 300,000 25 %

300,000 - 500,000 30%

500,000 - 1 million 35%

1 million - 20 million 40%

> 20 million 60%

This would be a start. I've kinda come around on the whole idea of progressive income tax in the abstract. Its just that the way things are set up now, the doctor who busts his ass to make 125,000 a year to scrape out a comfortable upper-middle class lifestyle ends up paying just as big a chunk of his salary in taxes as the guy who makes 12.5 million does. That's why I oppose all this "tax the rich" stuff democrats suggest to pay for various things...not because I feel for the billionaires of the world, but because most of "the rich" under the current setup aren't rich at all.

Estate tax: Any citizen is allowed to inherit up to 1 million dollars. Everything else is taken. I believe that people should make money by earning money. Being born into a rich family is not earning anything. 1 million dollars is more than enough to give any person the resources to do what they want to do in life(college, house, etc) anything more is excessive.

This, however, is draconian. I believe that earning money entitles someone to distribute it as they see fit. If they want to give it to their kids, they should have that right. If they want to give it all to charity, they should be able to do that too. The government has no right whatsoever to sweep in and claim that money by default. They certainly did not earn it.

Originally Posted by The US Constitution, Amendment 5

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

[dudehitscar]

I see what you are saying Corganist but that quote from the Constitution could be just as easily used to argue that the constitution forbides all taxes as they all take 'property' from individuals.

I also believe 'that EARNING money entitles someone to distribute it as they see fit'. What I'm trying to stop is the passing down of unearned money from generation to generation without working for it.

Maybe I should change my Estate tax stance to only tax money that has been passed down from previous generations. Not tax money earned from the individual working. What do you think of that? Would that be a fair compromise?

[dudehitscar]

Originally Posted by Cup O Mercury

Our taxes are low. And they should stay that way. People need to be able to keep most of their money so that they can spend money, so that others can earn money, thus stimulated the economy.
When the Democrats win they will raise taxes, and we will no longer have this booming economy. Their taxes will go to social programs that will decrease the peoples insintive to work hard, thus retarding the economy. Besides, It’s not what your county can do for you it’s what you can do for your county.
These are Bushes tax brackets and they work. This system brought in more revenue then ever.
A government with more taxes is a bigger government, a more powerful government, a more tyrannical government, a more oppressive and more evil government. I don't want my government to have more money. I want them to have LESS money. The more broke my government is, the happier I am because they have less power. Government is an evil, a necessary evil which should be no bigger than absolutely necessary.

I got to say I'm actually really surprised you are happy with the current progressive tax system. I would of thought you would be a very low flat tax person.

[Corganist]

Originally Posted by dudehitscar

I see what you are saying Corganist but that quote from the Constitution could be just as easily used to argue that the constitution forbides all taxes as they all take 'property' from individuals.

Not really. The Constitution specifically grants the legislature the general power to tax. But I think there's a world of difference between what's done now (where the government takes x% of whatever your estate is worth over a certain amount), and what you're suggesting (where the government just takes the whole thing and leaves you a little bit out of it.) The guy with a 1.5 million dollar estate is gonna think your way is pretty fair. He's only going to only lose 500,000. The guy with a 150 million dollar estate, on the other hand, loses 149 million dollars. Such a disparity in outcomes seems fundamentally against due process, IMO.

I also believe 'that EARNING money entitles someone to distribute it as they see fit'. What I'm trying to stop is the passing down of unearned money from generation to generation without working for it.

Maybe I should change my Estate tax stance to only tax money that has been passed down from previous generations. Not tax money earned from the individual working. What do you think of that? Would that be a fair compromise?

It'd be hard to tell what money comes from previous generations and what came from individual work, especially once you start throwing in things like capital gains and interest made off the money. Personally, I really don't see the harm in people inheriting money without working for it as some evil in and of itself that we have to stamp out with complicated and harsh tax schemes. Sure, no one likes spoiled rich kids who have everything handed to them...but I don't see how that makes it a government priority to bring them back down to Earth. I don't think its the government's business how a person comes into their wealth.

[Fonzie]

you guys have it fuckin' sweet.


New Zealand tax rates - personal.

Tax rates
Income
($NZ) Tax rate for individuals

$0 - $38,000 19.5%
$38,001 - $60,000 33%
$60,001 and over 39%

edit - also, everything has 12.5 % added to it for GST (Goods and services tax).

[Nimrod's Son]

Originally Posted by dudehitscar

> 20 million 60%

LOL

Originally Posted by dudehitscar

Estate tax: Any citizen is allowed to inherit up to 1 million dollars. Everything else is taken. .

Now i know you're trolling. i make a shitload of money, i die, and the government gets everything above $1M? you're smoking crack

[Nimrod's Son]

The only fair taxes I can see would be a national sales tax for transactions and/or a tariff

[sleeper]

Originally Posted by Corganist

I've kinda come around on the whole idea of progressive income tax in the abstract.

out of curiosity, why?

[DeviousJ]

Originally Posted by dudehitscar

I see what you are saying Corganist but that quote from the Constitution could be just as easily used to argue that the constitution forbides all taxes as they all take 'property' from individuals.

I also believe 'that EARNING money entitles someone to distribute it as they see fit'. What I'm trying to stop is the passing down of unearned money from generation to generation without working for it.

Maybe I should change my Estate tax stance to only tax money that has been passed down from previous generations. Not tax money earned from the individual working. What do you think of that? Would that be a fair compromise?

That's complicated though. There are some examples here of people who aren't wealthy at all, but they have a family home (sometimes built themselves) which has become valuable because of the way the housing market is. When the head of the family dies, you get a situation where the rest of the family inherit this large amount of 'wealth' (the house they live in) and are told hey, now you have to pay £££ as a percentage of the wealth you've inherited. Since they're not actually wealthy, it's just that house prices are ridiculous now, they can't afford to pay the tax - so they're forced to sell the family home so they can cash in the equity and pay off the bill. So it's not just 'free money, let the government have a slice'

[undersco_red]

flat national + state sales tax

[sppunk]

Whoever is for estate taxes need to fucking die. They are the most unfair taxes of all, even moreso than an escalating tax bracket that fucks the people who are fortunate in life.

[talk show host]

Originally Posted by Fonzie

you guys have it fuckin' sweet.


New Zealand tax rates - personal.

Tax rates
Income
($NZ) Tax rate for individuals

$0 - $38,000 19.5%
$38,001 - $60,000 33%
$60,001 and over 39%

edit - also, everything has 12.5 % added to it for GST (Goods and services tax).

Our rates do seem much higher when compared actually

[candycane]

flat national + state sales tax

Basically like the "Fair Tax." I like that plan but it has one very glaring drawback...

In a million years it won't ever happen.
As long as we must have an income tax I think it's fine the way it is now. As far as the rates that is. Unfortunately, the wealthy almost never pay as much as thier actual rate. Since they have the money they ussually take advantage of as many tax loopholes as possible. They hire high priced attorneys and CPA's to make sure they take advantage of everything possible. It's not thier fault though, thats the way the laws are set up, We'd all do the same in thier shoes.

I couldn't resist adding at least one reason (maybe less than 1% of all reasons) why we need to get rid of the IRS. Saving the rest for a rainy day.

[Ol' Couch Ass]

Originally Posted by Nimrod's Son

The only fair taxes I can see would be a national sales tax for transactions and/or a tariff

I'm going to have to agree here. At least then tax cheats and drug dealers would have to pay their fair share. Perhaps we could cut off the tax at 65-70 years of age so that the elderly are no longer paying while not working.

[jczeroman]

Originally Posted by dudehitscar

I knew you wouldn't dissappoint jczeroman.

[vordabois]

System should stay as it is.

Sales tax, property tax, etc... They are all regressive, or slanted to benefit the rich the most. As would a flat income tax as well.

The progressive income tax is what makes taxation fair for those in the middle class.

[Fonzie]

Originally Posted by talk show host

Our rates do seem much higher when compared actually

thanks, understatement guy!

If I earnt the same in the US as I earnt here, I'd end up with almost $5500 more in the hand a year.

Fuck our lazy-ass government and the fucking benefit sucking cunts that feed off the m.