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Old 05-26-2007, 05:57 PM   #451
Corganist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smashing0
that's just a poorly worded knee jerk reaction
that statement has been retracted and replaced with this one
Is the new one supposed to be better?

I'm sorry, but basically saying "We're going to share whatever recordings we want, and if a taper doesn't like it we're gonna do it anyway just to spite t**** is hardly the way to take the moral high ground.

 
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Old 05-26-2007, 06:01 PM   #452
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Quote:
Please DO NOT seed this recording on Zomb website
that's taken from the dime show source file. i did not edit anything out, that's all there is.

do we all have to love the zomb now, or what? no reason for such a backlash and personal attacks. someone plz count how many times he used the word "respect" in his post...

 
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Old 05-26-2007, 06:03 PM   #453
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The best part is what bodhisattva, the owner of the Zomb posted on TTD:

Quote:
if you don't want this recording there it won't be there. personally, if this recording was done by you I don't want it on my site. I don't need your negative energy effecting my tunes.
I guess that makes him a liar now...

 
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Old 05-26-2007, 06:08 PM   #454
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Quote:
Originally Posted by million_watts
that's taken from the dime show source file. i did not edit anything out, that's all there is.

do we all have to love the zomb now, or what? no reason for such a backlash and personal attacks. someone plz count how many times he used the word "respect" in his post...
except that Sebastian's recording isnt the source from dime

 
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Old 05-26-2007, 06:17 PM   #455
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i know that, but with "two source files" they refred to the two tapers, not the different bit versions. sebastian cleared his up, i checked the other one. since they didn't quote anything on the supposed crusade of "hatred and lies" (!!!) towards their site, i did it for them. for better understanding, ya know

 
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Old 05-26-2007, 06:34 PM   #456
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Quote:
Originally Posted by million_watts
sebastian cleared his up
No I didn't. There really never was anything in the actual file. The only place where I had my requests were in the descriptions for the torrent at TTD.

 
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Old 05-26-2007, 06:53 PM   #457
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smashing0
if the splits are the same they should be exactly the same files
AUD 1 is sourced from seb's 16 bit torrent from TTD
and AUD 2 is from Arn0's torrent from dime
That's the problem. AUD 1 doesn't sound as half as good as seb's 16-bit torrent from TTD. It's very strange.

I also downloaded mp3's from somewhere (I don't want to provide the link, even though it's been mentioned in this topic), and it's the same problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by million_watts
fingerprints and md5 file are *******d. use them to verify if the files have been altered. that's what they are there for....
Good idea. I'll see if I can do that and report back.

 
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Old 05-26-2007, 07:04 PM   #458
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sebastian
No I didn't. There really never was anything in the actual file. The only place where I had my requests were in the descriptions for the torrent at TTD.
Did you record Luxembourg?

 
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Old 05-26-2007, 07:07 PM   #459
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markpregen
Did you record Luxembourg?
No. That show was only 3 hours from here, but I couldn't get a ticket ;(

 
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Old 05-26-2007, 07:36 PM   #460
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props sebastian. excellent recording.

 
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Old 05-26-2007, 09:38 PM   #461
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Yeah, I never thanked you. I'm blown away.

 
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Old 05-26-2007, 09:51 PM   #462
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so, sebastian, are you planning on recording any of the other shows on this tour? and if yes, are you going to release them on the internet? if not, are you willing to do a b+p?

 
Old 05-26-2007, 11:06 PM   #463
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndySlash

We'd like this to be a good forum for sharing, under reasonable conditions. Sebastian's request is certainly understandable and reasonable.
LOL

 
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Old 05-26-2007, 11:18 PM   #464
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sebastian
The request to not share this on other trackers was to make sure that all traffic would be concentrated on one tracker to make it faster for everybody. One site with 100 seeders is faster than 4 sites with 25 seeders each.
Obviously...

I assume somebody else wrote this:

"NEVER UPLOAD THIS TO THE ZOMB TRACKER (ZOMB SUCKS)."

 
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Old 05-26-2007, 11:27 PM   #465
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corganist
I'm sorry, but basically saying "We're going to share whatever recordings we want, and if a taper doesn't like it we're gonna do it anyway just to spite t**** is hardly the way to take the moral high ground.
Nothing to do with spiting the taper. It's about making sure fans have access to the shows that their favourite bands play.

Zwan never came to my country, and because of Zomb I have a couple of DVDs and about 20 live concerts from a great band that only release 1 album.

I also have a whole bunch of Pumpkins DVDs that have been tiding me over while waiting for the reunion.

And on top of that everybody at Zomb has been helpful and friendly. One time I asked if anyone had any FM Zwan shows and within a few hours they were seeding 3 or 4 shows I didn't have. Great bunch of people.

 
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Old 05-26-2007, 11:47 PM   #466
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greedo, i know where you're coming from, but there are a few things you're overlooking:

1. sebastian seeded this on the traders den, which is a super-easy site to get registered, so anyone who wanted the recording could get it. also, since it was supposed to be on only one tracker, the download rates should have been even faster than they currently are.

2. i've had good luck with zomb as well and get along great with all the folks there, but i strongly disagree with their attitude towards tapers. i'm all about 'sharing the music' and all, but it's not as if sebi's hoarding this thing - it's out there for anyone who wants it. if he doesn't want it on zomb, for whatever reason, it shouldn't be there. he's the one who paid the ticket price, paid to get to the show, bought the equipment, spent the time to sweeten it, etc. he has every right to tell people "please abide by these simple requests, whatever my reasons might be." it's not like he was asking for anything outrageous.

3. it's entirely possible that sebi might not share any future recordings because some people just can't show a little common respect for someone else's requests. you may or may not know this, but sebastian has probably contributed more to the pumpkins community than any other european taper (at least i can't think of anyone else who has contributed more), so when people deliberately piss him off and shut off that source of music, it's a lot harder for you or me to go to a place like dad, ttd or zomb to get all those great-sounding boots of far-away shows.

i'm not trying to shit on you or anything - it's just something to think about. i know boots seem "free" to the consumer, but a lot of time and money goes into them. i don't think it's too much on our part to abide by a couple of very simple requests.

 
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Old 05-27-2007, 12:19 AM   #467
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RumoredToTheS&N

I agree with pretty much everything you said. Don't get me wrong.

One way or another, once a recording is on the Internet it is public domain, and the taper's wishes become irrelevant (I'm not saying that's necessarily a good thing, but 'shit happens').

I don't know specifically the history between Sebastian and the Zomb, but I can guess that his gripe(s) is not with the average fan who goes to the Zomb to download a concert. They are the people who suffer when someone takes their ball and goes home. The Zomb admins will not suffer the slightest at Sebastian's attempt to bully them. In fact, it seems to have brought a lot of support to them and I personally now realise how lucky I was to stumbe on that site when looking for some Zwan and Pumpkins stuff.

I have similar issues with the elitist anti-MP3 bullshit as well. For a lot of people MP3 quality is adequate and downloading 1GB is unfeasible.

There is way too much ego and stupidity in the trading community.

 
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Old 05-27-2007, 12:34 AM   #468
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greedo
Nothing to do with spiting the taper. It's about making sure fans have access to the shows that their favourite bands play.
The best way to do that is to keep the tapers happy. I'm not saying you have to cater to a taper's every whim and fancy or anything like that, but saying "This taper thinks ZOMB sucks and doesn't want his tape seeded there? Well, we'll show him! We'll just put it on there anyway and teach him a lesson!" is not a mature response and helps matters not at all.

Why not just post a link and point all the nice ZOMB folks to the TTD or Dime trackers? Then the tapers are happy, the fans get their music, and we don't have to put up with suffering through any more squabbling over this bunch of petty crap. Is that so difficult?

 
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Old 05-27-2007, 12:36 AM   #469
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greedo
I have similar issues with the elitist anti-MP3 bullshit as well. For a lot of people MP3 quality is adequate and downloading 1GB is unfeasible.

There is way too much ego and stupidity in the trading community.
Riiight...
If downloading 1GB is unfeasible, then try B&P.
They're in the formats they're in to maintain the quality the taper intended.

It's not stupidity. It's the way it's always been and it's worked for most of us for many years.

 
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Old 05-27-2007, 12:55 AM   #470
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greedo
RumoredToTheS&N

I agree with pretty much everything you said. Don't get me wrong.

One way or another, once a recording is on the Internet it is public domain, and the taper's wishes become irrelevant (I'm not saying that's necessarily a good thing, but 'shit happens').
yeah, but this is about respect and courtesy, not legality. just because someone can do something doesn't always mean they should. a little empathy is a good thing. put yourself in the taper's shoes - wouldn't you get a little miffed if someone deliberately contradicted your very simple request just because 'shit happens?' i know the internet is a cruel, wild frontier, but there's nothing wrong with trying to make it a little less so, even if it's just in our own little community.

Quote:
I don't know specifically the history between Sebastian and the Zomb, but I can guess that his gripe(s) is not with the average fan who goes to the Zomb to download a concert. They are the people who suffer when someone takes their ball and goes home. The Zomb admins will not suffer the slightest at Sebastian's attempt to bully them. In fact, it seems to have brought a lot of support to them and I personally now realise how lucky I was to stumbe on that site when looking for some Zwan and Pumpkins stuff.
i tend to think the support for zomb is mostly from people who are fairly new to the trading community (just a guess). tapers don't normally 'take their ball and go home' just out of the blue - someone usually has to go out of their way to really piss them off. it's not as if downloaders suffer because of some unprovoked temper tantrum. someone, somewhere read sebi's request and intentionally disregarded it for no good reason. zomb has a tiny fraction of users compared to dad or ttd, so 'getting it to the masses' isn't an excuse - someone just went out of their way to be contrary. besides, most sp fans know that they don't have to sit around staring at the zomb to find the latest boots - they just come here and watch for seeding announcements.

Quote:
I have similar issues with the elitist anti-MP3 bullshit as well. For a lot of people MP3 quality is adequate and downloading 1GB is unfeasible.
as an occasional taper and longtime trader, i could go on and on about the anti-mp3 stance, but i'll spare you the rant (besides, you've probably already heard it before). long story short, mp3s have poisoned the well in many trading communities and the sp community has been very vigilant to make sure it doesn't happen here. yeah, the quality difference of a fresh wav>mp3 transcode isn't all that big, but after a few generations, it starts to sound pretty awful even to 'untrained' ears. the anti-mp3 stance in this community is one of the main reasons we all get to hear pristine boots from any year at the drop of a hat. believe me, it may seem elitist, but it's a very, very good thing.

Quote:
There is way too much ego and stupidity in the trading community.
i really can't argue with this.


like i said, i can see where you're coming from, but most of the inconvenient and sometimes apparently-incoherent rules/requests/etc in the trading community are rooted in fairly steady ground. there aren't many i've run across that are just out-of-the-blue bullshit and sebastian's requests certainly weren't either.

 
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Old 05-27-2007, 01:01 AM   #471
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corganist
Why not just post a link and point all the nice ZOMB folks to the TTD or Dime trackers? Then the tapers are happy, the fans get their music, and we don't have to put up with suffering through any more squabbling over this bunch of petty crap. Is that so difficult?
exactly.
easy-peasy. nobody gets pissed. everyone gets the goodies.

 
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Old 05-27-2007, 01:12 AM   #472
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corganist
The best way to do that is to keep the tapers happy. I'm not saying you have to cater to a taper's every whim and fancy or anything like that, but saying "This taper thinks ZOMB sucks and doesn't want his tape seeded there? Well, we'll show him! We'll just put it on there anyway and teach him a lesson!" is not a mature response and helps matters not at all.

Why not just post a link and point all the nice ZOMB folks to the TTD or Dime trackers? Then the tapers are happy, the fans get their music, and we don't have to put up with suffering through any more squabbling over this bunch of petty crap. Is that so difficult?
The show wasn't posted on Zomb to spite the taper. It was posted on Zomb so Zomb users could listen to a great show, regardless of the initial knee-jerk reaction posts on the Zomb site.

I'd personally take a lower quality bootleg or no bootleg at all than to feed the ego of a taper who thinks they are bigger than the fans and the band that created the music in the first place.

While I respect your opinion, it seems like you're saying two wrongs make a right.

 
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Old 05-27-2007, 01:20 AM   #473
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RumoredToTheS&N

as an occasional taper and longtime trader, i could go on and on about the anti-mp3 stance, but i'll spare you the rant (besides, you've probably already heard it before). long story short, mp3s have poisoned the well in many trading communities and the sp community has been very vigilant to make sure it doesn't happen here. yeah, the quality difference of a fresh wav>mp3 transcode isn't all that big, but after a few generations, it starts to sound pretty awful even to 'untrained' ears. the anti-mp3 stance in this community is one of the main reasons we all get to hear pristine boots from any year at the drop of a hat. believe me, it may seem elitist, but it's a very, very good thing.
I know that MP3s cause problems (e.g. some idiot burns them to a CD and then rips the CD to a lossless format). But instead of being MP3 Nazis, tapers could simply ask that people be careful with MP3s. It's not hard to find the lossless versions with all the lineage details for those that care enough about it.

For those people on dial-up or with limited Internet access, why should anybody have a problem with them hearing 95% of the sound quality for 10% of the bandwidth? What's wrong with someone downloading a format that will work on their iPod?

Reading some of the tapers' requests, they give the impression that they feel that there is something immoral about listening to a lossy format. MP3 happens to be one of the greatest things to happen to music ever (though it's time is obviously already coming to an end).

 
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Old 05-27-2007, 01:25 AM   #474
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RumoredToTheS&N
exactly.
easy-peasy. nobody gets pissed. everyone gets the goodies.
Perhaps there would have been less hassle if Sebastian had simply said "I would prefer if this was not seeded on Zomb because I have personal issues with somebody at that site" instead of "Don't post to Zomb. Zoomb sucks".

Like the Zomb admins said, no taper can do anything about their show being spread on whatever site.

If the taper made a polite, rational request, it might have been respected. Most people would honour a friendly request. Most people will ignore a baseless rant against a site that most people think is great.

 
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Old 05-27-2007, 01:31 AM   #475
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How/what program do you play FLAC files in and how do you convert them to MP3s?

 
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Old 05-27-2007, 01:38 AM   #476
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeilandFan
How/what program do you play FLAC files in and how do you convert them to MP3s?
some people can't see forest for all the trees around them.

check sticky threads.

 
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Old 05-27-2007, 01:39 AM   #477
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K, I'm a torrent n00b.

 
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Old 05-27-2007, 01:40 AM   #478
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeilandFan
How/what program do you play FLAC files in and how do you convert them to MP3s?
You can play them in Winamp with a plugin from the Winamp site.

You can play them in Windows Media Player, but it's a bit tricky to get working. I can't remember how I got it working.

DBpoweramp can convert between formats. Don't use it to convert MP3 -> FLAC or WAV (or any other format) because you'll increase the file size but keep the same quality.

I think if you convert the FLAC to MP3 you should at least tag the files with the relevant source info...and keep the FLAC files somewhere.

 
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Old 05-27-2007, 01:44 AM   #479
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greedo
The show wasn't posted on Zomb to spite the taper. It was posted on Zomb so Zomb users could listen to a great show, regardless of the initial knee-jerk reaction posts on the Zomb site.
it was probably (i'm not speaking for zomb here) a bit from column a and a little from column b

 
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Old 05-27-2007, 02:51 AM   #480
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greedo
The show wasn't posted on Zomb to spite the taper. It was posted on Zomb so Zomb users could listen to a great show, regardless of the initial knee-jerk reaction posts on the Zomb site.

I'd personally take a lower quality bootleg or no bootleg at all than to feed the ego of a taper who thinks they are bigger than the fans and the band that created the music in the first place.

While I respect your opinion, it seems like you're saying two wrongs make a right.
It just seems to me like some people are way too focused on trying to put some kind of check on tapers' supposedly inflated "egos" instead of just trying to get along nicely and just letting things be about the music. If the only drawback to getting a high quality show is that people have to use one particular bittorrent tracker instead of another, then I don't see why that's such a big deal. Use the other tracker and be thankful for the show, simple as that.

I don't see the need to treat things like its some weird test of wills between tapers and fans where you can't honor a taper's wish and let him "win" lest his ego be stroked a bit. If tapers want to have an ego they're surely entitled to it. They do all the work, afterall. Thankfully, most of them share the fruits of their hard work with the rest of us for free with only the most minimal of requests for anything in return. The least we can do is treat them like the incredibly important part of the trading community that they are. If that means honoring a couple of the taper's wishes, then that's what should be done.

 
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