UPDATE

[ratking17]

What is going to be funny with all these Corgan haters is that when the new album and tour come out, they are going to have two choices: 1) Continue to complain how it isn't like Siamese Dream even though most of those that complain were in diapers during that era, or 2) Admit that they were wrong and Corgan is their daddy.

[mistle]

yeah i'm not saying all hope is lost with him producing. billy's the problem, i just had a bit of an uh-oh moment reading about this producer guy and the thought of them going completely nuts and overdoing it. it does make me want to hear that darkness album though

[brendo_91]

Yes, well, if you go and read the quote i pasted in the last page of this thread, RTB doesnt believe in artists producing themselves. So I think Billy has decided, however grudgingly, to pass the producer baton over to RTB this time.

[mistle]

Originally Posted by ratking17

What is going to be funny with all these Corgan haters is that when the new album and tour come out, they are going to have two choices: 1) Continue to complain how it isn't like Siamese Dream even though most of those that complain were in diapers during that era, or 2) Admit that they were wrong and Corgan is their daddy.

you're a retard. go away, the board is shitty enough without you

[davin]

Originally Posted by benjamin619

bullshit. the only two times he tried to make popular, epic rock records he came up with Siamese Dream and Mellon Collie. Zwan was the pursuit of something new, in the form of scratchy-60's records. the solo album certainly was not an example of corgan trying to write popular songs. what's wrong with you? go kill yourself and that stupid cat in your avatar..

I agree with the point you are trying to make.

Jimmy said at the Blue Island Drum Clinic, that Mary Star of the Sea was specifically written with the goal of being a pop album, with pop songs. Dave Pajo said this in an interview in the Illinois Entertainer (or was it the Chicago Reader) as well, when he was complaining that Billy wouldn't let him do any heavier songs.

As Billy and many others have said before, you have to think about the artist's intentions when judging the artist's work.

[ratking17]

Sticks and Stones Mistle..

[mistle]

Originally Posted by davin

As Billy and many others have said before, you have to think about the artist's intentions when judging the artist's work.

actually, no you do not

[Effloresce]

Originally Posted by brendo_91

You guys will also notice on this page, it says 39 songs became 15.

http://www.thedarknessrock.com/studiodiary/

Hence, 40 songs isn't THAT rediculous a number.

Also you'll notice that each musician recorded their parts individually - and the fact that their bassist quit halfway through recording didn't hold them up one bit, as they had elected to do drums first, then guitars, THEN bass.

So they might not even HAVE a bassist yet.

ALSO, note the use of analog tape and vintage mixing consoles. You don't make TheFutureSucksCock on analog tape fed from a vintage Neve.


For those of you with no idea who Roy Thomas Baker is... a friend put it best when he said "If anyone can capture the pretense and attempted bombast of Corgan, Baker's the guy to do it".

In other words - this is possibly the best news we've had yet.

Awesome, thanks for the info.

39 songs became 15... SP did a lot of that kind of thing for Siamese Dream and Mellon Collie, did they not?

[davin]

Originally Posted by Dead

Well they did at least some of Machina 2 in 2000, they went back into the studio and worked on some songs. Unless I'm mistaken. So I'm saying that they're saying Machina 2 isn't a real album if they're supposedly now in the studio recording an album for the first time since 99.

Originally Posted by Dead

Well according to davin and also what I already knew I guess it would be fair to say what they're saying about 99 afterall.

I appreciate your agreement, but the reason I said it "makes no sense" is because you're earlier post (quoted first) is technically correct as well.

There were a handful of songs recorded after the 1999 sessions, that took place in 2000 prior to machina 2 coming out. http://www.spfc.org/band/studio.html?session_id=47 However, as the notes indicate, they weren't recording brand new material...just tweaking and completing some unfinished tracks.

So maybe they are referring to 1999 as the last time they were in 100% full-on album-recording studio-mode, versus 99 where they were just adding finishing touches on stuff started in 1999.

[Kahlo]

Originally Posted by ratking17

Continue to complain how it isn't like Siamese Dream even though most of those that complain were in diapers during that era, or 2) Admit that they were wrong and Corgan is their daddy.

Ok, that was retarded. People can't help when they where born etc.. it does not make people better fans for being older etc... In the past i have been critical of younger fans.. even though myself came to the band in the late stages of their life.

[davin]

Originally Posted by mistle

actually, no you do not

well its your prerogative of course....but personally i think it makes more sense that way.

i.e. to judge msots and tfe based on the artistic intentions, rather than equally across the same scale as smashing pumpkins material...which makes them, obviously, look worse.

[davin]

Originally Posted by brendo_91

Yes, well, if you go and read the quote i pasted in the last page of this thread, RTB doesnt believe in artists producing themselves. So I think Billy has decided, however grudgingly, to pass the producer baton over to RTB this time.

THANK GOD.

[Kahlo]

I'm glad someone has stepped into say "look Billy, I'm sorry but 'I'm Ready' is lame and will make most of your fans think you are ready ready ready to retire"

[mistle]

Originally Posted by davin

well its your prerogative of course....but personally i think it makes more sense that way.

i.e. to judge msots and tfe based on the artistic intentions, rather than equally across the same scale as smashing pumpkins material...which makes them, obviously, look worse.

oh. i imagine myself listening to the new record and getting bummed out cause i think it sounds shitty. then i read on the internet that it's billy's INTENTION that it should sound that way (because i just figured someone had stolen the tapes and run them through a shitty-filter without his knowledge) and now that i know better i clap my hands and jump around in joy to the music

[davin]

you're missing the point -- i'm not talking about shitty vs. not shitty...i'm talking about the musical style. as in zwan being pop songs and tfe being new wave songs, and therefore judging them that way as opposed to just lumping them in with all of billy's work.

is this too complicated for you to understand?

do you compare a sports cars' performance against a trucks? no. you compare trucks to other trucks.

appels + oranjes.

[Sigma]

Originally Posted by davin

Who brought up Billy buying psychadelic records in Memphis as a possible musical direction for the band. Hmmmm....they may have been on to something.

Shall I take a bow?

I wouldn't say their choice of producer necessarily points to that direction, but we might hope.

[ratking17]

Davin, you have to understand Mistletoe's point of view. If Billy doesn't make an album that Mistle likes, then it is shit. Heaven forbid an artist try something different and experimental instead of doing the same shit over and over again.

Some people like to eat peanut butter on bread every day of their life, and others like to once in a while mix it up...

[mistle]

it's not about comparing it's about liking. maybe i like a sports car better than a truck. maybe i like an apple better than an orange. so one day billy gives me a sports car and an apple and i'm like 'cool!'. the next day he gives me an orange and a truck and i'm like 'this sucks' and he says 'but it's supposed to be an orange and a truck!'. that's where you go 'ohhh i see! joy to the world!' and i go 'duh, i still don't like it. gimme something cool again'

[mistle]

Originally Posted by ratking17

Davin, you have to understand Mistletoe's point of view. If Billy doesn't make an album that Mistle likes, then it is shit.

uh.. yes

[Obscured & Blue]

Originally Posted by ratking17

99 Was probably when they were last in the studio. May of 2000 if memory serves me correct was when machina came out...but i might be wrong...

No, it was february.

[byoung88]

upgrade

[byoung88]

Originally Posted by harrow

James was approached several times to come back to the mix but he declined - for now. The songwriting process is done and they are just recording now - and JAMES IS NOT in the studio. Whether he comes back to the band during the touring stages is a possibility but completely BOGUS because he had nothing to do with the making of the album.

it wouldnt be bogus if theyre still playing their old shit too

[seign]

I don't have time to go through this thread right now but, this Roy Thomas Baker guy seems like he'll be a great fit with the Pumpkins according to this article:

http://mixonline.com/mag/audio_roy_t...ker/index.html

[Floppy Nono]

billys got a mixed history of acceptance of his music from alot of his fans and no matter what he puts out someone will be displeased however i don't see how anyone can argue if it will suck or not at this point in time considering we have little to no idea just what "it" really is or will be

[aztec litany service]

good news

[RenewRevive]

Originally Posted by mistle

it's not about comparing it's about liking. maybe i like a sports car better than a truck. maybe i like an apple better than an orange. so one day billy gives me a sports car and an apple and i'm like 'cool!'. the next day he gives me an orange and a truck and i'm like 'this sucks' and he says 'but it's supposed to be an orange and a truck!'. that's where you go 'ohhh i see! joy to the world!' and i go 'duh, i still don't like it. gimme something cool again'

This sounds like when Corgan described how he comes to name songs - like Rhinoceros, if I recall.

[redbreegull]

So there's a lamp, and the color light it gives off is red, and red reminds you of what you're not supposed to wear around bulls, so you call the song cow.

[RenewRevive]

This is the kinda stupidity we need back in the band!

[brendo_91]

Originally Posted by Floppy Nono

billys got a mixed history of acceptance of his music from alot of his fans and no matter what he puts out someone will be displeased however i don't see how anyone can argue if it will suck or not at this point in time considering we have little to no idea just what "it" really is or will be

There's a producer with a proven track record and it certainly isn't billy.

That's one point for not sucking already.

Add to that, the fact that this producer is known for producing BIG BIG shit... two points.

Etc...

[Reyngel]

Originally Posted by mistle

unless you were hoping for a record with a little bit of space and quiet in the music for once. this guy does appear to be awesome, but it sounds like this is just the next step up on billy's quest to make the densest wall of sound ever. that can surely sound great, but there's also something to be said for the dynamics of allowing quiet into the music among the noises and room between the instruments. billy's last three albums have almost completely lacked that and a bit of change would be nice

You hit the nail on the head. If anything has been the reason for their lack of success during the Machina era, and certainly the MSOTS shit, it's that the dynamics were very, very minimal. And Siamese Dream, Mellon Collie, Adore... those albums were full of loud meets quiet. Think about the outo for hummer, the spacey middle section of Geek USA, Galapagos, Behold! The Night Mare, For Martha... it was the perfect blend. But then it became all about huge walls of fuzz and distortion, enough to make it so that you couldn't even tell it was a guitar. It was so gimmicky, so shallow.