Ditch Holocaust day, advisers urge Blair

Nimrod's Son · 09-12-2005, 01:47 PM

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...775068,00.html

September 11, 2005

Ditch Holocaust day, advisers urge Blair
Abul Taher

ADVISERS appointed by Tony Blair after the London bombings are proposing to scrap the Jewish Holocaust Memorial Day because it is regarded as offensive to Muslims.
They want to replace it with a Genocide Day that would recognise the mass murder of Muslims in Palestine, Chechnya and Bosnia as well as people of other faiths.

The draft proposals have been prepared by committees appointed by Blair to tackle extremism. He has promised to respond to the plans, but the threat to the Holocaust Day has provoked a fierce backlash from the Jewish community.

Holocaust Day was established by Blair in 2001 after a sustained campaign by Jewish leaders to create a lasting memorial to the 6m victims of Hitler. It is marked each year on January 27.

The Queen is patron of the charity that organises the event and the Home Office pays £500,000 a year to fund it. The committees argue that the special status of Holocaust Memorial Day fuels extremists’ sense of alienation because it “excludes” Muslims.

A member of one of the committees, made up of Muslims, said it gave the impression that “western lives have more value than non-western lives”. That perception needed to be changed. “One way of doing that is if the government were to sponsor a national Genocide Memorial Day.

“The very name Holocaust Memorial Day sounds too exclusive to many young Muslims. It sends out the wrong signals: that the lives of one people are to be remembered more than others. It’s a grievance that extremists are able to exploit.”

The recommendation, drawn up by four committees including those dealing with imams and mosques, and Islamaphobia and policing, has the backing of Sir Iqbal Sacranie, secretary-general of the Muslim Council of Britain.

He said: “The message of the Holocaust was ‘never again’, and for that message to have practical effect on the world community it has to be inclusive. We can never have double standards in terms of human life. Muslims feel hurt and excluded that their lives are not equally valuable to those lives lost in the Holocaust time.”

Ibrahim Hewitt, chairman of the charity Interpal, said: “There are 500 Palestinian towns and villages that have been wiped out over the years. That’s pretty genocidal to me.”

The committees are also set to clash with Blair on his proposal to ban Hizb ut-Tahrir, the radical Islamic group. Government sources say they will argue that a ban is unjustified because the group, which is proscribed in much of the Middle East, neither advocates nor perpetrates violence in the UK.

A Home Office spokesman said it would consider the proposals for a separate Genocide Day for all faiths but emphasised that it regarded the Holocaust as a “defining tragedy in European history”.

Mike Whine, a director of the British Board of Deputies, said: “Of course we will oppose this move. The whole point is to remember the darkest day of modern history.”

Louise Ellman, Labour MP for Liverpool Riverside and a Holocaust Memorial trustee, said: “These Muslim groups should stop trying to evade the enormity of the Holocaust.”

The seven committees finalise their recommendations today at St George’s House, Windsor, and will submit them to Blair and Charles Clarke, the home secretary, on September 22.

Mayfuck · 09-12-2005, 02:15 PM

So I don't get it. Are you opposed to this or something, Nimrod? Do you think we should recognize one people's downfall and not others? Why are you posting this

Mayfuck · 09-12-2005, 02:18 PM

There's no doubt an anti-semetic element in there and a PC element, but I don't see the problem with a genocide remberance day. If you're gonna recognize the plight of the Jews may as well recognize the plight of the palestinians, Armenians, Tamils, darfur, etc

Nimrod's Son · 09-12-2005, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mayfuck
There's no doubt an anti-semetic element in there and a PC element, but I don't see the problem with a genocide remberance day. If you're gonna recognize the plight of the Jews may as well recognize the plight of the palestinians, Armenians, Tamils, darfur, etc

Why should England commemerate those events?

Besides, what really bothers me is this is a reaction to the train bombings.

pastry sharp · 09-12-2005, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mayfuck
There's no doubt an anti-semetic element in there and a PC element, but I don't see the problem with a genocide remberance day. If you're gonna recognize the plight of the Jews may as well recognize the plight of the palestinians, Armenians, Tamils, darfur, etc

It seems reasonable to have days that memorialize both groups. At the end of the day though, it's sort of like pissing in the wind. The Holocaust only gets a day, but the red squirrel gets an entire week. How seriously can a genocide rememberance day be taken when put the side by side with national sleep in day?

beef curtains · 09-12-2005, 05:02 PM

why don't we lump sept 11th in with memorial day and veterans day?

Nimrod's Son · 09-12-2005, 05:36 PM

we should just have Holiday Day, where we wake up early and hunt for eggs under the Holiday Tree and then invite the family over for a BBQ of Turkey meat while we watch fireworks, desert of unlevened bread followed by a sundown fasting and a kiss at midnight.

pastry sharp · 09-12-2005, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by beef curtains
why don't we lump sept 11th in with memorial day and veterans day?

it seems like sept 11th might be a good day to memorialize sept 11th, but i'm just spit balling here... oh, i forgot, sept 11th is national take your pet rock to work day.

dreamsofdali · 09-12-2005, 09:15 PM

I kind of agree with Nimrod here. Why would England get rid of holocaust day and replace it with genocide day? There are enough days in the year to have 2 separate remembrances. This also pisses me off:

"He said: “The message of the Holocaust was ‘never again’, and for that message to have practical effect on the world community it has to be inclusive. We can never have double standards in terms of human life. Muslims feel hurt and excluded that their lives are not equally valuable to those lives lost in the Holocaust time.”"

Their not excluding Muslims by having a holocaust day, their remembering a war that they were actively apart of. England took in Jewish refugees, they found concentration camps..... Not really the same with Muslims really, considering England hasn't really been apart of finding/helping/causing Muslim genocide like they did during the holocaust. I'm not saying they shouldn't have a genocide day just don't replace holocaust day with it.

GlasgowKiss · 09-12-2005, 09:25 PM

Ill only support genocide day if its a yearly genocide. You know, nothing major, just enough to vent

Fonzie · 09-12-2005, 10:51 PM

Imagine the "Genocide day" cards!

Y'know, pictures of burnt corpses, mountains of skulls, "Sorry about the mass murder of your race" written in scrolly letters on the inside...

Lie · 09-12-2005, 11:15 PM

Yeah, well, they sort of fucked themselves up the butt by making a Holocaust Day in the first place, now, didn't they?

Nimrod's Son · 09-13-2005, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lie
Yeah, well, they sort of fucked themselves up the butt by making a Holocaust Day in the first place, now, didn't they?

How so?

rubber · 09-13-2005, 11:39 AM

The thing that I find most annoying about this whole article/discussion is the headline that the writer chose. It is sensationalistic and implies something against the Jews when infact the headling, "Expand Holocaust day, advisers urge Blair" would have been more accurate and cause less shit.

I am sick of newspapers doing this all the damn time. Everyday I see these type of headlines and it annoys me to know that a lot of people don't go far past the headlines. Sometimes the whole article is slanted but that's another topic...

beef curtains · 09-13-2005, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nimrod's Son
invite the family over ... kiss at midnight.

i would vote for this

ZackZ · 09-13-2005, 01:33 PM

This is incredible. Let me know the last time a Muslim was made into a lamp shade or burned alive in a oven.

Nimrod's Son · 09-13-2005, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by beef curtains

i would vote for this

Nicole pics plz

Trotskilicious · 09-13-2005, 08:26 PM

I'm against holidays.

mistle · 05:13 AM

how is holocaust offensive? remembering it would help prevent anything of the like happening to the muslims (which it really well might, looking at the growing xenophobia). a genocide day would be useless cause it's vague and abstract and more politically loaded, so it wouldn't at all have the same impact on people.i can't believe even the muslims can't see they're heading towards the same situation the jews were in in the thirties. for them to get offended over this seems really dumb. it is called holocaust rememberance, not feel sorry for the jews day. isn't it incredible that it still matters to people what race it happened to? way to not learn your lesson, earth.

edit: i guess i'm speaking against both sides here. what i mean.. is that it's really lame that it has to be genocide day because people are so full of themselves

09-12-2005, 01:47 PM	#1
Nimrod's Son Master of Karate and Friendship Location: in your butt Posts: 72,971	Ditch Holocaust day, advisers urge Blair http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...775068,00.html September 11, 2005 Ditch Holocaust day, advisers urge Blair Abul Taher ADVISERS appointed by Tony Blair after the London bombings are proposing to scrap the Jewish Holocaust Memorial Day because it is regarded as offensive to Muslims. They want to replace it with a Genocide Day that would recognise the mass murder of Muslims in Palestine, Chechnya and Bosnia as well as people of other faiths. The draft proposals have been prepared by committees appointed by Blair to tackle extremism. He has promised to respond to the plans, but the threat to the Holocaust Day has provoked a fierce backlash from the Jewish community. Holocaust Day was established by Blair in 2001 after a sustained campaign by Jewish leaders to create a lasting memorial to the 6m victims of Hitler. It is marked each year on January 27. The Queen is patron of the charity that organises the event and the Home Office pays £500,000 a year to fund it. The committees argue that the special status of Holocaust Memorial Day fuels extremists’ sense of alienation because it “excludes” Muslims. A member of one of the committees, made up of Muslims, said it gave the impression that “western lives have more value than non-western lives”. That perception needed to be changed. “One way of doing that is if the government were to sponsor a national Genocide Memorial Day. “The very name Holocaust Memorial Day sounds too exclusive to many young Muslims. It sends out the wrong signals: that the lives of one people are to be remembered more than others. It’s a grievance that extremists are able to exploit.” The recommendation, drawn up by four committees including those dealing with imams and mosques, and Islamaphobia and policing, has the backing of Sir Iqbal Sacranie, secretary-general of the Muslim Council of Britain. He said: “The message of the Holocaust was ‘never again’, and for that message to have practical effect on the world community it has to be inclusive. We can never have double standards in terms of human life. Muslims feel hurt and excluded that their lives are not equally valuable to those lives lost in the Holocaust time.” Ibrahim Hewitt, chairman of the charity Interpal, said: “There are 500 Palestinian towns and villages that have been wiped out over the years. That’s pretty genocidal to me.” The committees are also set to clash with Blair on his proposal to ban Hizb ut-Tahrir, the radical Islamic group. Government sources say they will argue that a ban is unjustified because the group, which is proscribed in much of the Middle East, neither advocates nor perpetrates violence in the UK. A Home Office spokesman said it would consider the proposals for a separate Genocide Day for all faiths but emphasised that it regarded the Holocaust as a “defining tragedy in European history”. Mike Whine, a director of the British Board of Deputies, said: “Of course we will oppose this move. The whole point is to remember the darkest day of modern history.” Louise Ellman, Labour MP for Liverpool Riverside and a Holocaust Memorial trustee, said: “These Muslim groups should stop trying to evade the enormity of the Holocaust.” The seven committees finalise their recommendations today at St George’s House, Windsor, and will submit them to Blair and Charles Clarke, the home secretary, on September 22.

09-12-2005, 10:51 PM	#11
Fonzie Dute of Seven Y's Location: Mr. C's garage Posts: 6,771	Imagine the "Genocide day" cards! Y'know, pictures of burnt corpses, mountains of skulls, "Sorry about the mass murder of your race" written in scrolly letters on the inside... __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. "I'm a fucking puppet." - Warren "Potsie" Weber

09-14-2005, 03:08 AM	#19
mistle bonnie stars Location: saxophone Posts: 12,094	how is holocaust offensive? remembering it would help prevent anything of the like happening to the muslims (which it really well might, looking at the growing xenophobia). a genocide day would be useless cause it's vague and abstract and more politically loaded, so it wouldn't at all have the same impact on people.i can't believe even the muslims can't see they're heading towards the same situation the jews were in in the thirties. for them to get offended over this seems really dumb. it is called holocaust rememberance, not feel sorry for the jews day. isn't it incredible that it still matters to people what race it happened to? way to not learn your lesson, earth. edit: i guess i'm speaking against both sides here. what i mean.. is that it's really lame that it has to be genocide day because people are so full of themselves Last edited by mistle : 09-14-2005 at 05:13 AM.

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09-12-2005, 02:15 PM	#2
Mayfuck genderqueer millionaire Location: i'm from japan also hollywood Posts: 57,364	So I don't get it. Are you opposed to this or something, Nimrod? Do you think we should recognize one people's downfall and not others? Why are you posting this

09-12-2005, 02:18 PM	#3
Mayfuck genderqueer millionaire Location: i'm from japan also hollywood Posts: 57,364	There's no doubt an anti-semetic element in there and a PC element, but I don't see the problem with a genocide remberance day. If you're gonna recognize the plight of the Jews may as well recognize the plight of the palestinians, Armenians, Tamils, darfur, etc

09-12-2005, 05:02 PM	#6
beef curtains Immortal Location: I like me so much better when you're naked Posts: 21,762	why don't we lump sept 11th in with memorial day and veterans day?

09-12-2005, 05:36 PM	#7
Nimrod's Son Master of Karate and Friendship Location: in your butt Posts: 72,971	we should just have Holiday Day, where we wake up early and hunt for eggs under the Holiday Tree and then invite the family over for a BBQ of Turkey meat while we watch fireworks, desert of unlevened bread followed by a sundown fasting and a kiss at midnight.

09-12-2005, 09:15 PM	#9
dreamsofdali Ownz Location: chicago Posts: 642	I kind of agree with Nimrod here. Why would England get rid of holocaust day and replace it with genocide day? There are enough days in the year to have 2 separate remembrances. This also pisses me off: "He said: “The message of the Holocaust was ‘never again’, and for that message to have practical effect on the world community it has to be inclusive. We can never have double standards in terms of human life. Muslims feel hurt and excluded that their lives are not equally valuable to those lives lost in the Holocaust time.”" Their not excluding Muslims by having a holocaust day, their remembering a war that they were actively apart of. England took in Jewish refugees, they found concentration camps..... Not really the same with Muslims really, considering England hasn't really been apart of finding/helping/causing Muslim genocide like they did during the holocaust. I'm not saying they shouldn't have a genocide day just don't replace holocaust day with it.

09-12-2005, 09:25 PM	#10
GlasgowKiss Quaid Hates You Location: Hollywood Posts: 14,179	Ill only support genocide day if its a yearly genocide. You know, nothing major, just enough to vent

09-12-2005, 11:15 PM	#12
Lie Socialphobic Location: Goin' out West where they'll appreciate me Posts: 10,016	Yeah, well, they sort of fucked themselves up the butt by making a Holocaust Day in the first place, now, didn't they?

09-13-2005, 11:39 AM	#14
rubber Ownz Location: Canada Posts: 800	The thing that I find most annoying about this whole article/discussion is the headline that the writer chose. It is sensationalistic and implies something against the Jews when infact the headling, "Expand Holocaust day, advisers urge Blair" would have been more accurate and cause less shit. I am sick of newspapers doing this all the damn time. Everyday I see these type of headlines and it annoys me to know that a lot of people don't go far past the headlines. Sometimes the whole article is slanted but that's another topic...

09-13-2005, 01:33 PM	#16
ZackZ The Arbiter of Elegance Location: Dreams of Teen Machines Posts: 3,153	This is incredible. Let me know the last time a Muslim was made into a lamp shade or burned alive in a oven.

09-13-2005, 08:26 PM	#18
Trotskilicious My Fiesta Name is Pendejo Location: I'm never going outside again unless I need someplace to throw up. Posts: 11,024	I'm against holidays.