The U.S. government is currently in its biggest botch job in history.

[sppunk]

I said government, not President Bush, Congress or any person or party individually.

For the United States of America to have its government respond in such an absolutely shameful way to this devastating disaster, I don't feel like we learned anything from Sept. 11, 2001.

We can't get sandwiches to the Super Dome. We can't get water to the NOLA Convention Center. We can't get buses to Houston. We can't get food drops from Army helicopters. We can't get the National Guard to help enforce laws and maintain civil order. We can't get people off of rooftops.

Hospitals are under seige. Buses have been commandeered by policemen helping themselves. Price gauging is at an all-time high (saw a gas station on TV in Georgia that had gas for sale for $4.83). Where the living hell are the services we demand and pay our fair share at, besides idly wasting away time and allowing thousands to die a day. This is America damnit, not some rogue nation.

Let's act like it.

The Department of Homeland Security has proven it is completely ineffective and has no idea how to handle a national tragedy and/or disaster. FEMA has been a joke of an organizing and commanding power and the National Guard was no where to be scene for days.

What's the point of this thread you ask? To show that we, as a nation, haven't learned much of anything. We've allowed our government to handle this situation no better than Bangledash would. We've allowed the government to bungle rescue missions and lose complete control of a city, making it unsafe for volunteers to help rescue missions.

I'm mad. I'm angry. I'm shocked. I'm completely embarrased that the most civilized, richest and powerful country in all of the world has let this situation happen. Shame on you, government. Shame on you.

[2Marlon2Brando]

dude i dont think that the government reads netphoria

[2Marlon2Brando]

or at least the gen board, post it in the politics forum

[bardy]

you make it all sound so easy!! sppunk for president!!

[pink_ribbon_scars]

sppunk uses homonyms by accident so often that i would be weirded out if he used the right words.

[mpp]

Originally posted by sppunk

we, as a nation, haven't learned much of anything.

this is the most pathetic part

i mean, how embarrassing and how sad

[Fonzie]

Greed is good. It's the democratic way.

[Trotskilicious]

Everything that could possibly go wrong happened under the Bush Administration. Unprecidented terroist attacks, a war waged under false pretenses, a recession, skyrocketing oil prices, and a major natural disaster.

[transluscent]

maybe god is telling us something.

[BeautifulLoser]

Seriously. Congress is on fucking LABOR DAY VACATION RIGHT NOW. RIGHT FUCKING NOW. What the fuck.

[Corganist]

I understand the frustration, but I'm wondering just what you all are expecting. An entire fucking major American city is underwater. Not to mention miles and miles of other smaller coastal towns blown off the face of the Earth. I don't see how you can sit off on the sidelines and talk about how easy the whole thing would be if the government had just done things your way. Its been half a week. Do you really think that the delays are a result of a lack of effort or planning? Like it or not, there are some problems that are going to be too big for any preparations. If this isn't one of them, I don't know what is.

It'd be great if we had things so perfectly set up that a major American city could essentially be wiped off the map and nobody would miss a beat, but its just not practical to expect that.

[sppunk]

Originally posted by Corganist
I understand the frustration, but I'm wondering just what you all are expecting. An entire fucking major American city is underwater. Not to mention miles and miles of other smaller coastal towns blown off the face of the Earth. I don't see how you can sit off on the sidelines and talk about how easy the whole thing would be if the government had just done things your way. Its been half a week. Do you really think that the delays are a result of a lack of effort or planning? Like it or not, there are some problems that are going to be too big for any preparations. If this isn't one of them, I don't know what is.

It'd be great if we had things so perfectly set up that a major American city could essentially be wiped off the map and nobody would miss a beat, but its just not practical to expect that.

Preparation wasn't the problem - responding was the problem.

It shows that America can't respond properly to national emergencies - and that's what the Homeland Security fuckers were supposed to be helping.

From all indications, things have onl gotten worse infrastructure-wise int his country.

[Corganist]

Originally posted by sppunk
Preparation wasn't the problem - responding was the problem.

It shows that America can't respond properly to national emergencies - and that's what the Homeland Security fuckers were supposed to be helping.

From all indications, things have onl gotten worse infrastructure-wise int his country.

I'm not sure what your idea of a "proper" response would be though. Like I said, its just not practical to expect the government to sweep in and take care of things within a couple days in any situation, much less as dire a situation as this. There's a good reason they call these things disasters and not inconveniences. You can't just snap your fingers and suddenly everyone is rescued and has proper supplies and all. There are just some things that are a tall order, even for the US government.

[disslunker]

Preparation wasn't the problem

from Yahoo! News :
WASHINGTON - The White House scrambled Thursday to defend itself against criticism that it has consistently proposed cutting the budget for Army Corps of Engineers water and flood control projects — including several that could have mitigated the disaster in New Orleans.


Just in February, President Bush proposed cutting the Corps' budget by 7 percent. The year before, Bush proposed a 13 percent cut.

Both cuts are part of an annual ritual in Washington in which the president shortchanges lawmakers' pet projects, knowing Congress will restore the money later on.

On Thursday, however, the Bush White House made available top Corps officials to assure reporters that cuts to the agency's budget did not cause the disaster. Even though the administration has chronically cut back on the Corps of Engineers' own requests for funding — including two key New Orleans-area projects — White House officials trumpeted the administration's support for the Corps.

"Flood control has been a priority of this administration from Day One," White House spokesman Scott McClellan told reporters.

...


And I think this is what my boss was listening to earlier today on NPR....a conversation with the homeland security secretary that shows he doesn't know his head from his ass.. Click "listen"...

I cant check it to see if its the same one.... but he talked about how there was plenty of supplies but they just couldnt get it to the people....and the interviewer was like '....but theres thousands of people in the convention center who are starving without food or water' and the guy is like 'I haven't heard any confirmed reports of that...its very dangerous for the media to spread rumors'

and the interviewer guy is like 'we have a journalist on the other line right now, hes a seasoned war journalist whos covered natural disasters and wars across the globe and hes looking at the thousands of people who are starving right now'

'i cant argue with you about this'

LOL

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...toryId=4828771

[disslunker]

It's also kind of funny that when a crazy disaster happens in new york (ie 9/11 , ie giant blackout for half a week) they go to the streets and help each other


but when it happens in the south, everyone grabs guns

there was one photo i saw today of two guys in a boat , each with a rifle and they were paddling back to their house to grab all their valubles..

lol


instead of fitting 6 dying people in their boat and getting them to safety...they grab a rifle to get their gold watches or whatever


so much for southern hospitality

[Fonzie]

Fats Domino found OK in New Orleans

[transluscent]

Originally posted by Fonzie
Fats Domino found OK in New Orleans

thank fucking god

[Corganist]

Originally posted by disslunker
It's also kind of funny that when a crazy disaster happens in new york (ie 9/11 , ie giant blackout for half a week) they go to the streets and help each other

but when it happens in the south, everyone grabs guns

That might be funny if it were true. But I assure you its not a southern thing. Lawlessness and looting occurs all over. The blackout of 77 in NYC had rampant looting and crime, for instance. If NYC were underwater, I'd be willing to bet you'd see worse.

[jczerowoman]

You are right sppunk. This whole thing is a big fat joke. My God. Government is terrible as shit at anything other than essential services. This should prove that beyond a doubt.

[homechicago]

what i find disturbing regarding the response to the disaster, is what if the levee was blown open by a terrorist? it would still flood most the city and cause substatial damage.

the sniper fights amongst drug dealers down there....they aren't likely legal u.s. citizens, not most of them anyway.

what has changed? why are we in iraq? if osama had ordered the levee destroyed, well, we see how things are going in 2005. no plan was in place for that possible scenario, obviously. talking heads make a big deal over 25 billion to repair cities on our soil, yet 300 billion spent on a pointless, profiteering, nightmarishly unexplainable war, no questions asked, no hysteria.

is this real?

more people will die in this disaster than 911 according to the politicians of louisiana and mississippi.

[sleeper]

just wait till a new strain of avian flu hits the americas. then we'll see whats what. then we'll see in the bumbling, hysterical response how poorly americans have put their uniquely paranoid mentality to use

the worst part of all of this is that there truly is no excuse. this wasnt unexpected, there was sufficient advance warning so as to allow a solid plan and preemptive action

but i have to point out that your "most civilized" comment is ridiculous. america has a long, long way to go to earn that title. its not even the richest either. per capita, i mean.

[sleeper]

Originally posted by Corganist
I understand the frustration, but I'm wondering just what you all are expecting. An entire fucking major American city is underwater. Not to mention miles and miles of other smaller coastal towns blown off the face of the Earth. I don't see how you can sit off on the sidelines and talk about how easy the whole thing would be if the government had just done things your way. Its been half a week. Do you really think that the delays are a result of a lack of effort or planning? Like it or not, there are some problems that are going to be too big for any preparations. If this isn't one of them, I don't know what is.

It'd be great if we had things so perfectly set up that a major American city could essentially be wiped off the map and nobody would miss a beat, but its just not practical to expect that.

well, were there or were there not problems or weaknesses in the response that went beyond the acceptable? a lot of people think there were and if you accept that there were you have to logically conclude that there is blame to be layed. be careful not to excuse all reaction, however poor, with the argument that it was a 'huge disaster' or whatever. incompetence (or however youd characterize it) exists all the time on all levels and should always be addressed

[gurr8]

The government shouldn't have to be responding to rescue people. It's fuckin darwinian. There was an evacuation plan in place; people were told to get out; Amtrak and Greyhound were running; 10% of the city population stayed, and now I read quotes in the paper like "We're so alone, why will nobody help us?" Well fuck, why didn't you think of that a week ago when you looked on CNN and saw a catagory five storm moving towards your below-sea-level house. Fack.

That said, the government should be getting in their to help the people...it's just pissing me off that it's taking all this time and money just to get to where we should already be: the rebuilding process.

[Future Boy]

Them hurricanes boy...they sneak up on ya!

[sleeper]

Originally posted by gurr8
The government shouldn't have to be responding to rescue people. It's fuckin darwinian. There was an evacuation plan in place; people were told to get out; Amtrak and Greyhound were running; 10% of the city population stayed, and now I read quotes in the paper like "We're so alone, why will nobody help us?" Well fuck, why didn't you think of that a week ago when you looked on CNN and saw a catagory five storm moving towards your below-sea-level house. Fack.

That said, the government should be getting in their to help the people...it's just pissing me off that it's taking all this time and money just to get to where we should already be: the rebuilding process.

theres a lot of this sentiment going around. i dont know enough the specifics to really comment on it, but im curious of this idea that a significant portion of the remaining 10% stayed for reasons like laziness, stupidity, bravado or whatever. the fact is that 10% stayed (ill take your word on that), but why they stayed might not be so simple as you and other people are making it seem

[sppunk]

Most of those that stayed were elderly with no way to leave, or poor with no car. Greyhound and Amtrak cost money - something these people don't have. They had no choice but to stay since mandatory evacuations aren't actually carried out.

[homechicago]

seattle times

Bentley headed to the Superdome yesterday morning, like most of the city's low-income residents who had nowhere else to go. New Orleans is one of the nation's poorest cities.

it's one thing to hop on a bus (free or not) out of a city, but entirely another to exit the bus with no money in a random city. i wonder where the astro dome people will end up?

[Future Boy]

Originally posted by gurr8
There was an evacuation plan in place; people were told to get out; Amtrak and Greyhound were running;

There is a difference between saying "EVACUATE THE CITY!" followed by nothing (that's a hell of a plan), and saying "EVACUATE THE CITY" and commandering school buses and whatnot and making sure that people who had no other option found a way out.

Originally posted by gurr8
Amtrak and Greyhound were running;

I believe Greyhound stopped running on Friday, not sure about AMtrak. And even still they expect something called "money". You give them money, they give you a lift, it's a fascinating system.

[Corganist]

Originally posted by sleeper

well, were there or were there not problems or weaknesses in the response that went beyond the acceptable? a lot of people think there were and if you accept that there were you have to logically conclude that there is blame to be layed.

I still don't know what 'acceptable' means. I understand the desire to lay blame. Its a lot easier to think that things could easily be going better if we just tried a little harder instead of being so utterly struck down by nature and chance. I'm just not sure its not a little naive to think that.

be careful not to excuse all reaction, however poor, with the argument that it was a 'huge disaster' or whatever. incompetence (or however youd characterize it) exists all the time on all levels and should always be addressed

By the same token, I think we should be careful to assume that the reason things look so bad is due to incompetence. Shit happens, and right now its happening on a much grander scale than we've ever seen. That shouldn't be an excuse for incompetence, but all the same, we shouldn't be dismissive of that either.

[sleeper]

Originally posted by Corganist

I still don't know what 'acceptable' means. I understand the desire to lay blame. Its a lot easier to think that things could easily be going better if we just tried a little harder instead of being so utterly struck down by nature and chance. I'm just not sure its not a little naive to think that.

whats acceptable is obviously subjective, but there a few things that i think most can agree are pretty hard to excuse

and it really does seem like you think people are only getting mad simply because bad things happened without even recognizing that a major disaster precipitated it, which i dont think is an accurate characterization of the protests. people arent necessarily mad at what could have been done, like some kind of fantasy, but rather what they feel should have been done. ones government has a responsibility to take preventative and reactive measures in situations like this and there is a line to draw between the bad things that will invariably be that way and the bad things that shouldnt. im saying "bad things" just because its the most inclusive wording i can think of for all the disgusting stuff going on

By the same token, I think we should be careful to assume that the reason things look so bad is due to incompetence. Shit happens, and right now its happening on a much grander scale than we've ever seen. That shouldn't be an excuse for incompetence, but all the same, we shouldn't be dismissive of that either.

frankly, for a lot of this stuff, i think itd take some pretty wild logical acrobatics to deduce much else other than incompetence. nature didnt induce your public servants into forgetting to concoct a sound strategy.

in any case, i think we need some more distance from the event to really be able to see where nature left off and incompetence took over when assessing the the full scope of the disaster. i do think it too early to tell. i wont argue with you when it comes to how a lot of people are maybe just displacing their indignation, frustration, shattered sense of invincibility, or whatever on the nearest politician