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Old 12-08-2018, 07:35 PM   #3481
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Penis of Father?

 
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Old 12-08-2018, 07:35 PM   #3482
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Old 12-08-2018, 07:36 PM   #3483
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Well, that would work.

 
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Old 12-09-2018, 04:22 AM   #3484
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You know how they tell you to use friends and family as a support network and be open with them and let them help you?

DON'T FALL FOR THAT MEME. NOBODY CAN HELP.

 
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Old 12-09-2018, 04:22 AM   #3485
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NOTHING MAKES IT BETTER

 
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Old 12-09-2018, 04:23 AM   #3486
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NOTHING IS YOUR ONLY OPTION

 
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Old 12-09-2018, 04:23 AM   #3487
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EMBRACE THE NOTHING

 
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Old 12-09-2018, 04:25 AM   #3488
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If you fail despite your best efforts, it means that your best efforts are not enough. It means that nothing is enough.

 
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Old 12-09-2018, 05:51 AM   #3489
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What happened?

 
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Old 12-09-2018, 08:26 AM   #3490
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lyfe

 
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Old 12-12-2018, 03:22 PM   #3491
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Went on yet another first date a couple of nights ago (will I ever be on an ordinal date number that Jerry Garcia couldn't count on one hand?), and I feel it went pretty well.

I met the woman right before my shift at work, when I was still in people clothes instead of my grocery-store uniform. Figured that since I wasn't yet on the clock, hitting on customers would be fair game.

I caught her smile at me when she was the next till over, so after cashing out, I chatted with her and asked her how her day was. She immediately let me know that her day at work wasn't the best. I've found it to be a good sign when somebody is immediately comfortable enough with you to open up about problems they are having, so at the end of the conversation, I asked for her number.

The cashier was telling me later on that after I walked away, she had remarked "it's been a while since I've been picked up at a grocery store."

She had mentioned doing research at a bio-tech company, and I definitely wanted to hear more about that, so we talked about that on the date. She talked about how she wasn't very happy with private-sector profit-driven research, so that got us talking about philosophy of science, a mutual interest of ours. She also did an English master's after her biology bachelor's, so we talked about art and literature and poetry and comic books. We had a lot in common. She likes Allison Bechdel.

She addressed the elephant in the room and asked me about my age, because I am clearly a bit younger than she is. I'm 24, and she's 34. It seemed to be a source of insecurity for her, but I let her know that it wasn't a problem for me at all, and she also said that it wasn't a problem for her if it wasn't one for me. She made a few comments about being with somebody so young making her feel "old," so I made reference to that Groucho Marx joke "you're only as young as the [person] you feel," and then kissed her. I still don't know how to kiss well, I feel like I've never done it properly and have never really had a kiss that has felt really good. I always get insecure about kisses, because they seem really important to women, and I've heard stories from female friends about them really liking a guy, only for all the chemistry to disappear when the first kiss wasn't very good (puts lots of pressure on me, but I like how women are honest talking about their experience when they are just talking naturally and you aren't asking for advice, because if I let my friends know about my insecurities kissing, I know they would suddenly change their tune to "DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT, NO GIRL WHO LIKES YOU WILL LOSE INTEREST JUST BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT A GOOD KISSER YET!" shitty normie advice meant to validate and placate people rather than actually help them fix their problems).

When the bill came, we both took out our wallets. She made a joke about how it seemed like there was going to be a fight about who got to pay. She said that, being out of school, she makes more money, so she offered to pay. I countered that I had asked her out, and that if we go with the "she makes more money" logic, she will have to pay all the time, which would essentially be me taking advantage of her (didn't mention this part, but paying for me all the time would probably make it seem like I'm her kid or something, which would only reinforce her consciousness about our age gap). We decided on splitting the bill down the middle.

At the end of the date, I thanked her for coming out, and she thanked me for not freaking out about her age (I mean, it's not like I couldn't tell that I'm younger than her when I was hitting on her, so it was no surprise, anyway; she is an incredibly attractive thirty-four).

Overall, pretty good, but I'm still a bit worried that she's going to decide that the age gap makes her feel weird after all. Especially because, though I don't text to chat often and only text to set up dates, I felt I should send a text last night just to let her know I'm still interested (just asked her how work was), and she hasn't responded yet. I guess if we do go on another date, I will have to work at minimizing the salience of age by giving her the same feeling she would get from being with a man her age or older. One thing I'm learning through dating is that, despite the social progress we made, and despite the fact that I date women who are also progressives and feminists, most women still seem to expect the man to be "the man," and don't feel the spark when he's not, which is hard for me, because I don't feel comfortable with masculinity and I am not assertive. But I think I'm going to have to practice at giving her those feelings of being with a secure, confident guy who can make her feel like a giddy little girl again if I want to neutralize her insecurities about her age. Kinda sucks saying that, because I hate the traditional gender shit, but reality has been hitting me in the face for the past couple of years that our actual behaviours and expectations while dating haven't yet caught up to our changing values, and I can either wait for them to, or I can just play the game.

 
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Old 12-12-2018, 03:38 PM   #3492
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I guess if we do go on another date, I will have to work at minimizing the salience of age by giving her the same feeling she would get from being with a man her age or older. One thing I'm learning through dating is that, despite the social progress we made, and despite the fact that I date women who are also progressives and feminists, most women still seem to expect the man to be "the man," and don't feel the spark when he's not, which is hard for me, because I don't feel comfortable with masculinity and I am not assertive. But I think I'm going to have to practice at giving her those feelings of being with a secure, confident guy who can make her feel like a giddy little girl again if I want to neutralize her insecurities about her age. Kinda sucks saying that, because I hate the traditional gender shit, but reality has been hitting me in the face for the past couple of years that our actual behaviours and expectations while dating haven't yet caught up to our changing values, and I can either wait for them to, or I can just play the game.
dunno about all this, not to give the "be yourself" advice (because what is "yourself" really)

but I would say people in general are attracted to someone who is confident in their actions and this doesn't necessarily need to be a gender specific energy

ie if you act like the age difference is no big deal then Wallah it's no big deal

(unless it is a deal for her, in which case why force it)

 
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Old 12-12-2018, 03:39 PM   #3493
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I don't know what I'm talking about to clarify though

 
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Old 12-12-2018, 03:39 PM   #3494
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She talked about how she wasn't very happy with private-sector profit-driven research, so that got us talking about philosophy of science, a mutual interest of ours.
lol

i'd suggest that you don't play the game and stay who you are until you find someone who's ok with that.
suggesting that "values" still have to change, in general, is silly.

 
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Old 12-12-2018, 03:41 PM   #3495
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What happened?
Eh, I finally decided to make myself vulnerable for a second (haha) and talk to a friend IRL about my anxieties with dating and sex, and ask for advice.

I specifically asked her beforehand if she would be comfortable giving advice, and told her to feel free to decline if she wasn't. I stressed that I really wanted to make sure that I wasn't burdening her with my issues. I didn't want that scenario where my friends start finding me a downer and drag, and start retreating from me to avoid dealing with my negative vibes. She was all like, "yeah, go ahead."

I told her about how I've gone on dates with about two dozen women now, without a single success. Still have never had a girlfriend, and have never been on more than four dates with a single woman before she lost interest. All the stuff about how everybody ghosts or rejects me, and how I am very sexually inexperienced for my age.

She was giving me the whole "you're cool and awesome and a nice guy, it doesn't make sense that out of two dozen people, nobody would like you." She said that if it were more like ten people I had been out with, that would be understandable, but 0/24 was just absurd. She brought up me maybe going for women beyond my league, but she also said that she doesn't accept dates from men below her league in the first place, so the fact that I've gotten any dates with these women at all indicates that this isn't the problem.

She also said it was hard for her to see things from my experience, because she is, by her own description, an attractive woman, and at any given moment, by her own admission, there are plenty of guys waiting on the sidelines to be her boyfriend. She can get sex if and when she wants it, she says.

I went deeper into what I think my flaws are and what my difficulties have been, my issues with my appearance, the vicious cycle of inexperience yielding more inexperience, and it ended with her telling me essentially that "nobody would want to stick around with somebody with crippling insecurity," and that this is stuff I should be telling a therapist, not a friend. Ouch. It was specifically the "you shouldn't be telling this to a friend" part that hurt. All that stuff you get told about how your friends are there for you and how you should use them as supports, this episode confirmed my suspicions that this is bullshit. Friends are friends with you because of the value they get from being friends with you. The fun, the interesting conversation, the fun times. If you can't bring that to the table anymore, they will cease to be friends with you, and be friends with somebody who does bring them that value. It's an exchange. This is why sad-sacks like me should never fall for the "open up about your insecurities" meme. We'll just get hit in the face with them.

She hasn't responded since. I think I ruined our friendship by bringing her my baggage.

I was telling my therapist and doctor about the episode, and they remarked that many people discuss the same issues with both friends and therapists, that there aren't really "issues that are only for therapists." But, like, they also have to validate me. That's why I like my psychiatrist, specifically. He worries less about validating me and making me feel good, and he tells it like it is, and tells me what I ought to do to improve. I'd like to see what he says about this episode, but I had so much to talk about when I saw him yesterday that I couldn't get to this.

I mean, I genuinely appreciate when a friend comes to me with something sensitive. I've been there for them to discuss relationship troubles and trauma from sexual violence. I feel honoured that I'm trusted enough with that stuff. But I'm also a giver and people-pleasers who thrives on making others happy. Most people are not like that.

 
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Old 12-12-2018, 03:46 PM   #3496
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The bad news is that the fact that I can't talk about this shit with friends means that you guys will have to continue to deal with more of the Disco Diarrhea posts of pent-up depression for the foreseeable future. Sorry. That's what you get for being friends with whom I have the benefit of distancing from my full offline identity.

 
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Old 12-12-2018, 03:47 PM   #3497
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DK, this new date sounds really good!
but your last reflections, to me, are just shooting yourself in the foot. What a woman really wants is to make a real deep connection with a man. So if you're faking the whole way through it, I'm afraid she's just gonna end up sensing she doesn't really have access to the real you, and that is how someone loses interest.

As hard as it is, the real success anyone should be looking for, relationship-wise, is to go all-in with their flaws and qualities, be accepted as they are, and be willing to put some work on improving the flaws.

 
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Old 12-12-2018, 03:53 PM   #3498
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I only have one friend that'd I'd be comfortable being completely honest with

it is true that RL relationships like that are hard to come by

that's why anonymous message board venting is where it's at

 
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Old 12-12-2018, 04:03 PM   #3499
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My Reddit is even more pathetic than my Netphoria account, because Netphoria is small enough that I have still accidentally built some kind of identity here, and thus have at least some face to save.

 
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Old 12-12-2018, 04:04 PM   #3500
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Your 4chan self is your true self, however.

 
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Old 12-12-2018, 04:15 PM   #3501
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DK, yes, your therapist is supposed to validate you, but a good therapist wouldn't validate you over something untrue. I have a really good friend who basically is like my therapist sometimes (on top of my actual therapist), and I do my best to support her in that way as well. It's true friendships like this are hard to come by, but to me, the way your friend responded is pretty unkind and does not give me good vibes. If what you were saying was worrisome to her, I totally get if she had suggested a therapist might help. But the way she said it, that the topic was something for a therapist and NOT a friend, just seems mean to me.

 
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Old 12-12-2018, 04:32 PM   #3502
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My Reddit
oh god no

 
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Old 12-12-2018, 05:06 PM   #3503
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Hahaha, have an updoot, my friend. Thanks for the gold, kind stranger!

 
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Old 12-12-2018, 05:25 PM   #3504
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lol

i'd suggest that you don't play the game and stay who you are until you find someone who's ok with that.
suggesting that "values" still have to change, in general, is silly.
Wait, why is the philosophy of science part funny?

I don't know about the whole "just be yourself and find somebody compatible with that" thing anymore. I'm not talking about being totally inauthentic and just telling people what you think they want to hear in order to get with them; real incompatibilities should be made known sooner rather than later. But I'm also starting to think that attraction and chemistry isn't just this mystical force that either is or isn't there between two people, and that while you can't just perform the correct steps to make anyone attracted to you, there are things you can do to make attraction more likely, or to be able to attract more people.

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DK, this new date sounds really good!
but your last reflections, to me, are just shooting yourself in the foot. What a woman really wants is to make a real deep connection with a man. So if you're faking the whole way through it, I'm afraid she's just gonna end up sensing she doesn't really have access to the real you, and that is how someone loses interest.

As hard as it is, the real success anyone should be looking for, relationship-wise, is to go all-in with their flaws and qualities, be accepted as they are, and be willing to put some work on improving the flaws.
I'm feeling like all of life is a performance, and the difference between being an authentic person and being fake is a matter of degree. There is a certain extent of impression management and behaviour modulation that you can engage in to put on your best face and make it more likely for people to accept and like you without being a total Patrick Bateman phony.

There are also things that you can share with a possible partner, but maybe shouldn't lead with. Like, do you collect Gundam Wing figurines? Maybe if that was the first thing you told a woman, she would lose interest, and you wouldn't have a chance with her. But maybe if she got to know you and liked you first, and then you revealed a bit later on that you collect expensive toys, she wouldn't see it as a deal-breaker anymore and would just find it one of your "cute quirks."

There is a little bit of a social game we play in interpersonal relationships, I think. And honesty comes in degrees. Just baring your sole right off the bat is the most honest thing you can do, but isn't a good strategy.

But of course, I'm not going to hide a core value and build a relationship on a lie or anything like that.

I also feel from experience that attraction is more than just a "deep connection." Building a deep connection without any kind of flirtatious element is how you become friends with somebody. And though I wanted to believe that I didn't have to play by the gender roles and I could just be accepted as my passive and awkward self, experience is showing me that the onus is still on the male to initiate and escalate and spark that flirtation, and if he doesn't, the woman won't feel that chemistry that separates her friends from her lovers. People will say, "oh that's nonsense, just be yourself and go at your own pace and somebody will like you," but the more I pay attention to what people do instead of what people say, the more I realize that they actually do respond with more attraction to an assertive and flirtatious guy instead of a guy who is just "pleasant," but has got nothing beyond that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by redbreegull View Post
DK, yes, your therapist is supposed to validate you, but a good therapist wouldn't validate you over something untrue. I have a really good friend who basically is like my therapist sometimes (on top of my actual therapist), and I do my best to support her in that way as well. It's true friendships like this are hard to come by, but to me, the way your friend responded is pretty unkind and does not give me good vibes. If what you were saying was worrisome to her, I totally get if she had suggested a therapist might help. But the way she said it, that the topic was something for a therapist and NOT a friend, just seems mean to me.
Yeah, I don't know. It did come off as mean and dismissive. I thought she'd be understanding, because she also has diagnosed depression and social anxiety (I think generalized anxiety, too), and we've talked about those things in the past. But she also has a rich father, is conventionally attractive, and is (at least fiscally) conservative, so the episode kind of reinforced my sentiments about elites having lower empathy, a social hierarchy being real, and those at the top of it having the right to treat peons like me poorly.

Last edited by Disco King : 12-12-2018 at 05:31 PM.

 
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Old 12-12-2018, 05:26 PM   #3505
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DAMN BOURGEOISIE

Last edited by Disco King : 12-12-2018 at 05:32 PM.

 
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Old 12-12-2018, 05:47 PM   #3506
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yes some people are simply uncomfortable with sharing real feelings. i don't think it's necessarily related to socio-economic status...

 
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Old 12-12-2018, 06:03 PM   #3507
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of course, everyone loves to flirt and play games.
it's very attractive. but none of that is really incompatible with who you are.

the best kind of flirt you will have is one where the woman just naturally makes you feel flirty, rather then you trying to be flirty for the sake of it, and all-calculating, like "here's what i have concluded i should do according to my social observations"...

this woman already appreciates the way you approached her and thinks it was a bold, slick move. that in itself was a flirt. if you appreciate who she is and want to make more bold moves, go for it. but you must also respect the person that you are, this is the #1 way to get respect in return. so if there is one thing i could suggest you change about yourself, it is to work on being more assertive.

 
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Old 12-12-2018, 07:14 PM   #3508
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so... i finally got the courage to say his to this really cool woman i have seen on the trail near my home. she always smiled in the past but i was too shy to hold eye contact. today i said hi and she said hi too!.

she's so cool. she has long blue braids and wears tie-dye shirts and has this funny looking poofy dog...

ach, gollum!!!

now i need to work on saying a complete sentence.

 
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Old 12-12-2018, 07:41 PM   #3509
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so... i finally got the courage to say his to this really cool woman i have seen on the trail near my home. she always smiled in the past but i was too shy to hold eye contact. today i said hi and she said hi too!.

she's so cool. she has long blue braids and wears tie-dye shirts and has this funny looking poofy dog...

ach, gollum!!!

now i need to work on saying a complete sentence.
Compliment her on one of the things you mentioned, or make a comment about her dog. Maybe ask what breed it is?

 
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Old 12-12-2018, 07:45 PM   #3510
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dating update:

disaster relief woman hasn't texted me since october. She was out of town so I said let me know when you are back around, and I never heard from her... so I guess shit is over? I kind of feel like if I reached out again she probably would go out with me again, but she is equally as happy to just not. When we spend time together it's always fun and we seem to have good chemistry, but she seems to look at me as just something to do. I guess even as just a hook up or friends with benefits, I would like to feel desired by a partner, and not just when we are literally together.

I still can't quite figure her out, like she's so hot and cold. When we see each other, she is really affectionate, and she's not shy about PDA in public, so we always wind up doing shit like stopping three times on our walk to the restaurant to slip around a corner and do some kissing. That sounds like she's into it, right? Well apparently not that much.

 
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