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[Elphenor]

Idk it must have taken monumental balls of steel to unionize and fight for safe workplaces and overtime

[toase]

do those things become unimputable over time?

record everything now, look for a good lawyer later

[Trotskilicious]

Originally Posted by toase

do those things become unimputable over time?

record everything now, look for a good lawyer later

lmao

[Elphenor]

I've seen it at every job I've worked

For example my last job I was instructed to dispose of chemicals and oil in a clearly illegal way

Technically not illegal, but we were spied on audio and video when the bosses weren't around

[Trotskilicious]

Originally Posted by Elphenor

There's all sorts of illegal stuff they get away with

Because of the "keep it in the family" type mentality plus it's all at will so you better never make a mistake EVER from the moment you report something

eulogy, democrat liberal, once had a very condescending petty and cruel "arguement" with me because i said right to work means fire at will and he said this wasn't true and if i was a lawyer i'd know that and he started screaming at me for some reason about it.

i'll never forget it because i'm not a lawyer and right to work is fire at will & we all know it

[Trotskilicious]

"right to work" is fundamentally anti-union law, its a travesty the way this country thinks about labor

[toase]

Originally Posted by Elphenor

I've seen it at every job I've worked

For example my last job I was instructed to dispose of chemicals and oil in a clearly illegal way

Technically not illegal, but we were spied on audio and video when the bosses weren't around

[Disco King]

Some dumb conservative campus club keeps on pushing for the student union to be voluntary, claiming that making it part of enrollment violates U.N. human rights of association. This is literally their argument.

It's a dumb argument, but it sounds better than "if we weaken unions by encouraging people to reap their benefits without supporting them, they will crumble and then there will be no organized body to advocate for student interests against corporate interests."

[Elphenor]

Right

It makes unions illegal just about

If you don't have to join the union and pay dues but you still get the pay raise and benefits from the union no brainer you don't join and the union can't work

[Disco King]

Also, an admin of the same campus club sent out an email saying "feminism is cancer," and the club announced that the person responsible was fired. Except, nobody in the club remembers this person and an investigation by the campus paper has turned up absolutely nothing. So, they probably invented a fake person and "fired" him to save somebody's ass.

[redbreegull]

Originally Posted by Disco King

Also, an admin of the same campus club sent out an email saying "feminism is cancer," and the club announced that the person responsible was fired. Except, nobody in the club remembers this person and an investigation by the campus paper has turned up absolutely nothing. So, they probably invented a fake person and "fired" him to save somebody's ass.

in 8th grade me and some other kids invented a person and ran him for SGA president and he won against the only real person running

[redbreegull]

admin was not happy

[toase]

unions are virtually mandatory here (few jobs don't have a union), but the companies still manage to do those things, so I don't know

you can never treat capitalism as something you can tame, it goes against its "nature"

[Trotskilicious]

Originally Posted by Elphenor

Right

It makes unions illegal just about

If you don't have to join the union and pay dues but you still get the pay raise and benefits from the union no brainer you don't join and the union can't work

i was thinking that they can also fire you for joining one, most employees handbooks have this in the fine print

[Elphenor]

Well that's absolutely true as well ofc

This is what the spying is partially for

Mass firings if they smell one coming

[Elphenor]

Just a theory

[Disco King]

Originally Posted by redbreegull

admin was not happy

Lol, I've thought about running fake student union campaigns. At first, I was thinking joke ones, but then I thought it would be funny to do one that looked like a normal candidate that most students would have no reason to believe is fake. Set up a fake Facebook page, everything. And then people would be confused when the candidate isn't on the ballots.

[redbreegull]

hey FUCK CAPITALISM am I right

[redbreegull]

still better than feudalism tho

[Trotskilicious]

idk i have a feif coming to me

[Disco King]

Still not sure if I'm 100% anti-cap, or just think that more reforms should be made.

On the one hand, capitalism industrialized society and increased the living standards of many. Poverty is decreasing worldwide all the time, many indicators are getting better, and social reforms fought for by the left have dulled a lot of the horrible consequences of it that were seen at the beginning of the Industrial Revolution.

On the other hand, it concentrates power in corporations, stratifies society, prevents many from engaging in fulfilling pursuits because they are forced to do unfulfilling unrewarding in order to survive, externalizes many costs of transactions and forces them upon the most vulnerable of society, and seems completely ill-equipped for dealing with the greatest threat to humanity's existence, climate change.

I guess capitalism isn't, like, the worst thing ever, but there's no reason we should stop here and shouldn't continue to seek systems that better meet human needs.

[toase]

Originally Posted by redbreegull

still better than feudalism tho

some people actually argue that in feudal societies people would work less and have a lot more benefits

[toase]

http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debat...time-than-you/

Why a medieval peasant got more vacation time than you
By Lynn Stuart Parramore
August 29, 2013

Life for the medieval peasant was certainly no picnic. His life was shadowed by fear of famine, disease and bursts of warfare. His diet and personal hygiene left much to be desired. But despite his reputation as a miserable wretch, you might envy him one thing: his vacations.

Plowing and harvesting were backbreaking toil, but the peasant enjoyed anywhere from eight weeks to half the year off. The Church, mindful of how to keep a population from rebelling, enforced frequent mandatory holidays. Weddings, wakes and births might mean a week off quaffing ale to celebrate, and when wandering jugglers or sporting events came to town, the peasant expected time off for entertainment. There were labor-free Sundays, and when the plowing and harvesting seasons were over, the peasant got time to rest, too. In fact, economist Juliet Shor found that during periods of particularly high wages, such as 14th-century England, peasants might put in no more than 150 days a year.

As for the modern American worker? After a year on the job, she gets an average of eight vacation days annually.

It wasn’t supposed to turn out this way: John Maynard Keynes, one of the founders of modern economics, made a famous prediction that by 2030, advanced societies would be wealthy enough that leisure time, rather than work, would characterize national lifestyles. So far, that forecast is not looking good.

What happened? Some cite the victory of the modern eight-hour a day, 40-hour workweek over the punishing 70 or 80 hours a 19th century worker spent toiling as proof that we’re moving in the right direction. But Americans have long since kissed the 40-hour workweek goodbye, and Shor’s examination of work patterns reveals that the 19th century was an aberration in the history of human labor. When workers fought for the eight-hour workday, they weren’t trying to get something radical and new, but rather to restore what their ancestors had enjoyed before industrial capitalists and the electric lightbulb came on the scene. Go back 200, 300 or 400 years and you find that most people did not work very long hours at all. In addition to relaxing during long holidays, the medieval peasant took his sweet time eating meals, and the day often included time for an afternoon snooze. “The tempo of life was slow, even leisurely; the pace of work relaxed,” notes Shor. “Our ancestors may not have been rich, but they had an abundance of leisure.”

Fast-forward to the 21st century, and the U.S. is the only advanced country with no national vacation policy whatsoever. Many American workers must keep on working through public holidays, and vacation days often go unused. Even when we finally carve out a holiday, many of us answer emails and “check in” whether we’re camping with the kids or trying to kick back on the beach.

Some blame the American worker for not taking what is her due. But in a period of consistently high unemployment, job insecurity and weak labor unions, employees may feel no choice but to accept the conditions set by the culture and the individual employer. In a world of “at will” employment, where the work contract can be terminated at any time, it’s not easy to raise objections.

It’s true that the New Deal brought back some of the conditions that farm workers and artisans from the Middle Ages took for granted, but since the 1980s things have gone steadily downhill. With secure long-term employment slipping away, people jump from job to job, so seniority no longer offers the benefits of additional days off. The rising trend of hourly and part-time work, stoked by the Great Recession, means that for many, the idea of a guaranteed vacation is a dim memory.

Ironically, this cult of endless toil doesn’t really help the bottom line. Study after study shows that overworking reduces productivity. On the other hand, performance increases after a vacation, and workers come back with restored energy and focus. The longer the vacation, the more relaxed and energized people feel upon returning to the office.

Economic crises give austerity-minded politicians excuses to talk of decreasing time off, increasing the retirement age and cutting into social insurance programs and safety nets that were supposed to allow us a fate better than working until we drop. In Europe, where workers average 25 to 30 days off per year, politicians like French President Francois Hollande and Greek Prime Minister Antonis Samaras are sending signals that the culture of longer vacations is coming to an end. But the belief that shorter vacations bring economic gains doesn’t appear to add up. According to the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) the Greeks, who face a horrible economy, work more hours than any other Europeans. In Germany, an economic powerhouse, workers rank second to last in number of hours worked. Despite more time off, German workers are the eighth most productive in Europe, while the long-toiling Greeks rank 24 out of 25 in productivity.

Beyond burnout, vanishing vacations make our relationships with families and friends suffer. Our health is deteriorating: depression and higher risk of death are among the outcomes for our no-vacation nation. Some forward-thinking people have tried to reverse this trend, like progressive economist Robert Reich, who has argued in favor of a mandatory three weeks off for all American workers. Congressman Alan Grayson proposed the Paid Vacation Act of 2009, but alas, the bill didn’t even make it to the floor of Congress.

Speaking of Congress, its members seem to be the only people in America getting as much down time as the medieval peasant. They get 239 days off this year.

[redbreegull]

Originally Posted by toase

some people actually argue that in feudal societies people would work less and have a lot more benefits

I dunno, for all capitalism's failings, we are still living in like the demonstrably best period of human history. considering the size of the population, there is less war, disease, starvation, and crime than at any other point in recorded history. we have modern medicine and the internet.

the past sucked and was mostly much worse than life is now

of course we are going to destroy ourselves but this is the pinnacle

[Trotskilicious]

Originally Posted by Disco King

On the one hand, capitalism industrialized society and increased the living standards of many.

so did the course of history

[redbreegull]

Originally Posted by toase

http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debat...time-than-you/

Why a medieval peasant got more vacation time than you
By Lynn Stuart Parramore
August 29, 2013

this is interesting. it makes sense.

but I think I would rather be overworked and depressed than be illiterate and die at 40

[toase]

Originally Posted by redbreegull

I dunno, for all capitalism's failings, we are still living in like the demonstrably best period of human history. considering the size of the population, there is less war, disease, starvation, and crime than at any other point in recorded history. we have modern medicine and the internet.

the past sucked and was mostly much worse than life is now

of course we are going to destroy ourselves but this is the pinnacle

Well, science is not a byproduct of capitalism

And you might be correct about being peaceful, but I'm not sure
I live in Brazil, we don't go to war (usually), but our society is still very violent, more than the US

[toase]

Originally Posted by redbreegull

this is interesting. it makes sense.

but I think I would rather be overworked and depressed than be illiterate and die at 40

hahaha yeah

[Trotskilicious]

Originally Posted by redbreegull

this is interesting. it makes sense.

but I think I would rather be overworked and depressed than be illiterate and die at 40

human life tends to naturally end in the 60s, pop history is fascinated with innacurate data like average life span not considering how much more common it was to die as an infant or as a child or from disease, which skews the numbers to 40. If you lived through childhood & avoided disease you could expect to live into your early 60s or so

[Trotskilicious]

some of the funnier people i follow on twitter like to call themselves neo-feudalists