The Official Fri/Sat/Sun/Mon/Tue drunk/drugs/sad sex thread

[fuzzyroes]

Not you guys, but I'm sure the consensus here would be that what I'm saying this time isn't actually all that absurd...

The older DK gets, the more awkward it'll become. The man needs pragmatic advice, not this fluffy lovey dovey crud that RBG is suggesting.

[fuzzyroes]

Anyways, that's my advice DK, I think you should consider it. It's worked for me and trust me man, you're a better looking young man then I was/am and likely quite smarter. It's not advice that you have to live by, but it'll help give you invaluable experience so you can evolve and be ready when you do meet the woman of your dreams.


That's all I'm gonna say on the matter cause I don't wanna get into a 5-page bickering match over it with RBG tonight lol

[redbreegull]

Originally Posted by myosis

and no going on a date as a trial is not dumb. the guy isn't sure himself how much he likes the girls that he dates and that is normal. there is therefore no reason to "push" the romantic interest that he is not even feeling yet. you are yourself probably getting a lot of success getting laid with your tactics, but how exactly stables are your relationships again?

it has nothing to do with getting laid or building a relationship, I'm speaking on correctly conveying what you want from your date and being able to act on that. If he doesn't want to kiss/touch them and feels pressured, he shouldn't. But if he does and is feeling frustrated by the barrier he is experiencing, he should continue breaking down that barrier until he feels at-ease and in-control in the situation.

Also I guarantee you moving the chair around to the perpendicular side of the table and touching a woman's shoulder when she makes you laugh have nothing to do with whether a future relationship is stable or not, nor do they make it likely you are being asked inside on the first date.

[myosis]

no but it has to do with not fooling yourself or the other with calculated bullshit...

which is the only thing i'm suggesting to DK, to stop all the calculating because it doesn't appear to be helping him. he's only more self-conscious because of it.

[buzzard]

There was a time in my life where I didn't need alcohol. I found that alcohol was quite helpful in those days.

[Elphenor]

Originally Posted by redbreegull

You asked her on a date, and although intentions can be misconstrued, most people are going to understand the interest is romantic. She probably wouldn't have said yes if you didn't meet her baseline standard for attractiveness and she didn't see at least a possibility of something happening, so you have to go into the situation with that in mind.

yeah

the texts sent to DK after moving things to friendship makes it clear that there was romantic interest

in the interest of making things actually less awkward for everyone there is a unspoken "game" whereby both sides want something but can't directly say it so there is flirtation etc

this part is practically the most fun part of the whole ordeal when you've met the right person

[Elphenor]

i say from my authoritarian position of my first long term relationship

[myosis]

the key part is "when you've met the right person"

[Elphenor]

yeah I can see that point of view as well

[ilikeplanets]

Originally Posted by fuzzyroes

Man, you should just start off dating someone that you don't feel so intimidated by embarrassing yourself in front of. Perhaps start off dating a girl who feels like you're out of her league. That way she's the one who'd probably be nervous about messing up, and then it's easy sailing for you.

There's nothing wrong with shooting for the moon, but you gotta understand these are the kind of women who have been having sex with the coolest sought after guys their whole sexual life... That brings a lot of pressure to live up to (if you're actually hoping that it'll turn into a long-lasting sexual relationship).

You could also try and get drunk with your date. Girls often initiate things a lot more when they've been drinking... That way it takes the pressure off of you.

You know this is sickening, right?

[buzzard]

I really don't think he does.

[ilikeplanets]

Get her drunk so she can't fully consider the horror of going for a guy that wants to get her drunk to score. Boooooooo

Or date someone you find unattractive just for practice and maybe to get your dick wet. Boooooooo

[ilikeplanets]

Originally Posted by fuzzyroes

Not you guys, but I'm sure the consensus here would be that what I'm saying this time isn't actually all that absurd...

The older DK gets, the more awkward it'll become. The man needs pragmatic advice, not this fluffy lovey dovey crud that RBG is suggesting.

Pragmatic for who, exactly? It's a recipe for disaster to date someone you're not actually into, and leading on the other party is just cruel.

And advocating getting someone so intoxicated that you can "open the floodgates" with little resistance? I mean....

Having decency and honesty in your intentions is not "fluffy lovey dovey"

[myosis]

Originally Posted by ilikeplanets

Pragmatic for who, exactly? It's a recipe for disaster to date someone you're not actually into, and leading on the other party is just cruel.

.

[FoolofaTook]

I met a chicken last night. It was quite large.

The night before I encountered two possums around 2 am. One scurried away but the other stared me down like what bitch you wanna start something. I gave it a solemn bow and went my way.

[Disco King]

Originally Posted by myosis

just wondering why do you feel that you have to force physical intimacy?

It's not that I am averse to it, it's just that I don't know how to do it. Normies will often say "act natural," but they don't understand that "acting natural" for somebody with the social experience to have developed social intuition is different from "acting natural" for somebody who hasn't developed those skills. There are a host of normal social developmental adolescent experiences that I missed out on, and now I have to catch up. Somebody who is a poor reader because they lacked proper education as a child, who is now learning to read late in life, doesn't achieve that by just "acting natural" and not thinking too hard about it. It will be a belaboured process. I think this is what most people who have had normal social development don't understand when talking to weirdos like me.

So, any attempt to be physically intimate isn't something that will just be "instinctual" on my part. I either have to make a conscious effort to do it, or it won't happen at all. For the most part, I have been too afraid to make that effort, so i hasn't happened at all. That last date was a rare time in which I pushed myself, but I think it was too little, too late. Seriously, nobody is going to stick around after four dates of not even holding hands.

Originally Posted by ilikeplanets

social apps aren't always a bad thing, although it's impossible to know if there's real chemistry until you meet someone in person. but communicating online can help you get to know someone a little bit more first, at least in theory. it definitely has its limits but i think the stigma about it is a little too harsh. if you're not into the scene at conventional singles places like clubs or bars, it might behoove you to try and get to know people at places you DO like to be. plus you're always a little more comfortable if you're enjoying yourself.

admittedly, talking to the other awkward person at a club is a little cinematic and adorable. i'm sorry it didn't work out. are you still in your early 20s or dating people in their early 20s? once you approach your 30s people start to mature in a significant way and a lot of the flakiness stops.

I really don't think I'm cut out for dating apps. I've seen the statistics. Women get hundreds of matches and lots of interest, many men are lucky to match with one woman a week, and she most likely won't ever be available to meet in person (my female friends talk about how they match with people purely for fun and validation, without the intent to ever actually meet).

I don't think I have the energy for all the impression management that comes with dating apps, either. Your chances of getting any interest if you don't have photos that demonstrate that you have a social life (photos with plenty of friends), photos that show that you engage in fun activities and have had cool experiences (travel photos, sports photos, photos of you skydiving, whatever), and photos that demonstrate that you are handsome and fit, are all pretty low for a man. That's why I prefer meeting people in person. I'm not just a face in a catalogue of others whom I couldn't hope to compete with. I don't have to worry about projecting an image of my entire life. I just have to make them laugh and think, "maybe I'll laugh some more if I give him my number."

I fully believe that online dating would destroy what little self-esteem I've got left.

Originally Posted by myosis

i would be more inclined to approach a date as an opportunity to make a new friend first and foremost, this keeps the pressure low and helps to be yourself. being yourself will help the other person know you better which might help get the attraction going. then i consider that if something turns into a romantic relationship it's that it simply just happened. i'll never kiss anyone or hold their hand just because "i feel like" i'm supposed to. even when you know there is mutual attraction, it can be fun to keep the tension going.

I guess I just don't see how I'm not already doing that. Most of my dates, I just treat people in a friendly way and try to learn more about them and whatnot. That's exactly what I was doing with those last two girls who recently broke things off. It was only on the fourth (and final) date with the one I was really into that I told myself that I'd have to be more physical, because I knew this would happen if I didn't. I couldn't really find any opportunities to do it until the very end of the date, but by then, it was obviously too late.

Originally Posted by redbreegull

Basically I really feel your fear of transgressing boundaries, but you are probably overcompensating. I totally get that you wish you could find someone who would be patient with you and you will eventually, for sure. But you also have to make sure you are doing enough to make your intentions clear. You have to make your date feel comfortable with touch and intimacy as well. Don't just assume that you are so awkward and bad at this and everyone else is some kind of pro looking for other pros. I guarantee you that is not the case.

I guess I just don't understand how I'm supposed to navigate these gendered cultural scripts. On the one hand, I try not to infringe on her space because I don't want to be disrespectful or "creepy." On the other hand, I'm expected to initiate everything, because few women will. And so all the burden, as well as all the risk of censure, is on me. And because of the pretense and ambiguous social cues that are part of the cultural scripts of flirtation, it's not likely that a woman will explicitly tell me when she'd like me to make a move. It just seems really hard to balance affirmative enthusiastic consent with societal scripts. I think one problem about discussion about the former is that it acts as though it can just be tacked onto the latter without a fundamental transformation of the latter. I don't think these ambiguous, non-verbal, amorphous cues found in dating, flirtation, and romance, are really compatible with clear, enthusiastic consent, yet even people who advocate for enthusiastic consent don't really challenge those norms.

It also seems like opportunities rarely present themselves. I take her to a restaurant or bar, and the seats are directly across from each other, which doesn't really allow any holding. We go outside, and it's bitterly cold, so I'd rather keep my hands in my pockets than hold hers. I don't drive, so a lot of the time, I'm on public transit, and I don't want to be that gross couple kissing on public transit. And if I'm in their car, I've discovered that it's actually quite hard to kiss somebody in the driver's seat from the passengers side.

[Disco King]

It's funny. Just last night, the first of the two girls who broke things off with me recently got around to texting me back. I guess she actually does want to be friends, and was just busy. That makes me feel better.

I'm really hoping I can also still maintain a friendship with this latest one. I think it might be harder, because I really, really liked her, but I don't think it will hurt so much that I couldn't bear to be friends. Plus, since I treat dates like friends anyway, hanging out platonically with her probably won't feel much different from any of our "dates," anyway.

[ilikeplanets]

Originally Posted by Disco King

And so all the burden, as well as all the risk of censure, is on me. And because of the pretense and ambiguous social cues that are part of the cultural scripts of flirtation, it's not likely that a woman will explicitly tell me when she'd like me to make a move. It just seems really hard to balance affirmative enthusiastic consent with societal scripts. I think one problem about discussion about the former is that it acts as though it can just be tacked onto the latter without a fundamental transformation of the latter. I don't think these ambiguous, non-verbal, amorphous cues found in dating, flirtation, and romance, are really compatible with clear, enthusiastic consent, yet even people who advocate for enthusiastic consent don't really challenge those norms.

So this basically answers my question of if you're dating women in their early 20s with a "yes!"

there's a big change coming, trust me. women in their late 20s and beyond that are actively dating tend to behave far, far less ambiguously. no one past that age has the desire for games anymore, and they aren't afraid to spell out what they want so they can get it, or move on if it's not right for them.

[FlamingGlobes]

Originally Posted by fuzzyroes

Man, you should just start off dating someone that you don't feel so intimidated by embarrassing yourself in front of. Perhaps start off dating a girl who feels like you're out of her league. That way she's the one who'd probably be nervous about messing up, and then it's easy sailing for you.

There's nothing wrong with shooting for the moon, but you gotta understand these are the kind of women who have been having sex with the coolest sought after guys their whole sexual life... That brings a lot of pressure to live up to (if you're actually hoping that it'll turn into a long-lasting sexual relationship).

You could also try and get drunk with your date. Girls often initiate things a lot more when they've been drinking... That way it takes the pressure off of you.

This is really bad advice.

But first, before I tell you why, I must point out that you are getting worse. Take it from one of the few people here who doesn't look for just any opportunity to jump down your throat. If you're trolling us, then fine, fair game. But if you are being genuine, then you are sliding off of the fucking rails in a big bad way. Work on that.

Your advice to DK may have "worked" for you, but since DK's not a heartless shitbag, I don't recommend he get a bunch of 4s drunk just for "practice." These are people with feelings, and to treat them as the dumping grounds for a few practice rounds is absolutely heinous, disgusting and borderline antisocial behavior.

Thankfully, DK is smart enough not to heed your advice. What he needs is practice, but with someone he cares about who will extend him the same care. That will happen for him. He doesn't need to waste the time of women he wouldn't otherwise be interested in.

The fuck man.

[FlamingGlobes]

Originally Posted by Disco King

And I realize that I really haven't. I've had friends. Never a close "I tell them everything" friend. I have friends I laugh with, not friends I cry with.

Aren't we those friends you cry with?

[reprise85]

Originally Posted by Disco King

Also, ever been asked a question that just dissolves you into the void?

A friend of mine the other day was asking me if I was close to my parents. I was like, "uh... definitely not close to my dad. I love my mother and feel affection toward her, but we don't engage in anything other than small talk because it doesn't seem like we have a lot of common ground to talk about."

My friend then asks me, "have to ever been close to anyone?"

And I realize that I really haven't. I've had friends. Never a close "I tell them everything" friend. I have friends I laugh with, not friends I cry with.

So, I kind of just realized I've been a robot my entire life and have never had a true close one and I'm a ghost in the void. (A robot can be a ghost. Who says it can't? Fuck you.)

Sorry about the woman you liked :/ that sucks

I can relate to being a robot ghost. I've never been close to anyone, either. Maybe my one friend, but he was also a robot ghost so it wasn't much. Solidarity. i have no advice

also, fuzzy you are a dirtbag and an alcoholic. what you're describing is predation at best, and sexual assault at worst

[redbreegull]

Originally Posted by Disco King

I guess I just don't understand how I'm supposed to navigate these gendered cultural scripts. On the one hand, I try not to infringe on her space because I don't want to be disrespectful or "creepy." On the other hand, I'm expected to initiate everything, because few women will. And so all the burden, as well as all the risk of censure, is on me. And because of the pretense and ambiguous social cues that are part of the cultural scripts of flirtation, it's not likely that a woman will explicitly tell me when she'd like me to make a move. It just seems really hard to balance affirmative enthusiastic consent with societal scripts. I think one problem about discussion about the former is that it acts as though it can just be tacked onto the latter without a fundamental transformation of the latter. I don't think these ambiguous, non-verbal, amorphous cues found in dating, flirtation, and romance, are really compatible with clear, enthusiastic consent, yet even people who advocate for enthusiastic consent don't really challenge those norms.

It also seems like opportunities rarely present themselves. I take her to a restaurant or bar, and the seats are directly across from each other, which doesn't really allow any holding. We go outside, and it's bitterly cold, so I'd rather keep my hands in my pockets than hold hers. I don't drive, so a lot of the time, I'm on public transit, and I don't want to be that gross couple kissing on public transit. And if I'm in their car, I've discovered that it's actually quite hard to kiss somebody in the driver's seat from the passengers side.

These are some hard issues that I don't think anyone really has clear answers to. I see exactly what you are saying about the incompatibility of practicing real active consent and navigating a dating culture where nearly everything is implied. I do believe implied consent is a thing, but yeah, I understand that it's just extremely foggy and hard to steer around all these curves correctly. You aren't alone though. Dating is awkward for everyone. Especially when you get a few years older, you'll see that all your peers are going to be really exhausted from the dating game and wishing it were easier as well. It goes without saying, but just don't give up. It really will get easier with more practice. And there are a lot of women in the world who would love to date a man like you, who is serious and thoughtful and reserved and true to his self. Do not despair. I promise they are out there, you may just not have made a genuine connection with someone like this yet, but it will happen.

I think around 2 years ago I was freaking out on Netphoria because I couldn't figure out how to kiss pizza girl because the opportunity just never seemed to present itself. This is just what worked for me, but I have since had better luck by being more active at creating a situation where a kiss could happen, just like how you asked your date if you could kiss her. IME people will value the directness and courteousness of being asked although I know a lot of folks might see it as "lame" or whatever. The woman I have been seeing recently, we had a nice first date, we walked out to my car and were about to head our separate ways. We hugged, both agreed we had a nice time, and I said I would text her. As she was getting ready to walk away I had a oh shit now or never moment and I just said, "Hey, I think you are so cute, uhhh could I kiss you?" And she smiled, clearly flattered, and pulled me in for a kiss. So. I think you are on the right track. Do not despair my dude.

Originally Posted by ilikeplanets

So this basically answers my question of if you're dating women in their early 20s with a "yes!"

there's a big change coming, trust me. women in their late 20s and beyond that are actively dating tend to behave far, far less ambiguously. no one past that age has the desire for games anymore, and they aren't afraid to spell out what they want so they can get it, or move on if it's not right for them.

This is so true IME. Dating only becomes more frustrating for a lot of people after college where a lot of couples meet in class, through mutual friends, etc. So people become much clearer with their intentions and more forward and less interested in playing games.

[ilikeplanets]

I have a little insight into the "woman nearing 30" demographic

[fuzzyroes]

Originally Posted by ilikeplanets

You know this is sickening, right?

So you of all people are gonna act as the morale police to me?

Give me a break. Who are you trying to kid?

[fuzzyroes]

Originally Posted by ilikeplanets

Get her drunk so she can't fully consider the horror of going for a guy that wants to get her drunk to score. Boooooooo

Or date someone you find unattractive just for practice and maybe to get your dick wet. Boooooooo

I never said any of this you cretin. All I was saying was that if you're on a date and both parties are sexually interested, a few drinks can take away the nervousness of doing the deed for the first time. And I'd never suggest dating someone he finds unattractive.... Just maybe try and find someone who's less desirable but that he see's something attractive about that the average Joe Sixpack wouldn't.

[fuzzyroes]

Originally Posted by ilikeplanets

Pragmatic for who, exactly? It's a recipe for disaster to date someone you're not actually into, and leading on the other party is just cruel.

And advocating getting someone so intoxicated that you can "open the floodgates" with little resistance? I mean....

Having decency and honesty in your intentions is not "fluffy lovey dovey"

You seem to be projecting a lot of your own personal experiences onto what I said...

Again, I never said to date someone "he's not actually into". It seems to me that he's going out with these trendy, cool chicks that are all the rage and it never goes anywhere for him... Why not go after a cute nerdy chick or something?

I have no idea why you're taking such a deranged stance on what I said, but you're assuming all this shit that I never said.

And who the fuck said anything about getting someone so intoxicated that you can open the floodgates? What I said was that if he drinks with someone he's been dating, maybe she'll take the duty of making the first move...

Jesus Christ... I can take getting ripped on when I say something stupid, but this is just absurd how you're projecting onto me.

[FoolofaTook]

Originally Posted by ilikeplanets

I have a little insight into the "woman nearing 30" demographic

Yeah me too.

[fuzzyroes]

Originally Posted by FoolofaTook

I met a chicken last night. It was quite large.

The night before I encountered two possums around 2 am. One scurried away but the other stared me down like what bitch you wanna start something. I gave it a solemn bow and went my way.

I was on a late night walk and saw and owl kicking on a perch right in front of me. Truly majestic birds

[FoolofaTook]

Lol fuzzy got butthurt

[FoolofaTook]

Originally Posted by fuzzyroes

I was on a late night walk and saw and owl kicking on a perch right in front of me. Truly majestic birds

Have you ever tried goat cheese?