other peoples' perspectives on lollapalooza 94

[Grox]

so we all know billy made a point of continually talking about how much he hated lollapalooza in 1994, for years later even. we've all heard billy's story but it was never clear to me why they hated it so much. billy said they were pressured in some ways to conform to the rest of the bands? but of course he probably blew most of it out of proportion.

does anyone know what other people on the tour thought about the pumpkins, and how much truth there is to the idea that billy was just really bratty the whole time? i want to know why he hated it so much, and why other people might have disliked them...

[FoolofaTook]

those are mysteries so deep you shall never fathom them

[SlingeroGuitaro]

I thought he said they did it because they wanted to be part of something with that much energy which was something they saw as special. They could have made more money touring on their own but they wanted the experience.

There is some interview (don't remember when/where) he sums it up like that

[stumpycat]

Apparently there was some animosity between Kim Deal of the Breeders and Billy. I've no idea why, though. (I think it had to do with some kind of politics behind who got to play the main stage as headliners and the fact that SP had taken one of the positions first slated for another band or had allegedly gotten them kicked off the roster, etc.) Also he got pissed at the crowds regularly for not paying enough attention to his band when they were playing.

[wounded]

a friend of mine went, he is a non pumpkins fan. well not a non fan, but doesn't care either way. he likes a few songs, but said they sounded like shit

[vbshlofbvgos]

looking back at it now i guess billy was all pissed off that he wasn't playing in front of crowds that worshiped him. oh he's ever been such a sensitive creature

[T&T]

it was 1994. nirvana had been scheduled to headline. instead kurt kobain died. Smashing pumpkins were asked to replace them & headline instead. I'm not sure if SP was even on the bill before april 5th.
Billy invited courtney onto the stage at several shows to speak to the crowds about the loss of kurt. that must have been weird.

Billy only hung out with the Flemions which he strong-armed into the tour. ie, "we won't play if the FROGS aren't invited to play either"


SP were seen as total indie FAKES at that time. SP operated on a big budget but tried to play it cool and DIY. the indie lable caroline front (for virgin) for the release of gish had already turned many people off from the band... (yes people were accusing SP of selling out back in 1991) not many other bands liked SP for pulling stunts like that. the upcoming release of a B-sides album was seen as 100% pretentious capitalist cashing in. other musicians on the tour didn't appreciate billy stepping in and taking the nirvana slot altogether. but that's inevitable music scene politic shit smearing where no obvious solution would have pleased everyone. Some musicians were bold enough to suggest that the nirvana headline slot should have been a tribute slot/memorial. I personally think that would have been super lame.

[ohnoitsbonnie]

I was 3

[fuzzyroes]

Originally Posted by T&T

it was 1994. nirvana had been scheduled to headline. instead kurt kobain died. Smashing pumpkins were asked to replace them & headline instead. I'm not sure if SP was even on the bill before april 5th.
Billy invited courtney onto the stage at several shows to speak to the crowds about the loss of kurt. that must have been weird.

Billy only hung out with the Flemions which he strong-armed into the tour. ie, "we won't play if the FROGS aren't invited to play either"


SP were seen as total indie FAKES at that time. SP operated on a big budget but tried to play it cool and DIY. the indie lable caroline front (for virgin) for the release of gish had already turned many people off from the band... (yes people were accusing SP of selling out back in 1991) not many other bands liked SP for pulling stunts like that. the upcoming release of a B-sides album was seen as 100% pretentious capitalist cashing in. other musicians on the tour didn't appreciate billy stepping in and taking the nirvana slot altogether. but that's inevitable music scene politic shit smearing where no obvious solution would have pleased everyone. Some musicians were bold enough to suggest that the nirvana headline slot should have been a tribute slot/memorial. I personally think that would have been super lame.

Crazy. Good info man. I actually didn't really know any of that. I was always confused why it had a caroline logo on the back of Gish instead of the virgin one... That was a pretty hurting move.

[DiscoJon]

http://web.stargate.net/soundgarden/...pin_4-94.shtml

A couple of days and a harrowing plane flight later, the band makes it to a resort town called Surfer's Paradise, which is more or less the Miami Beach of Australia, a skinny coastal town about an hour south of Brisbane, pounded by waves and plagued with jellyfish, crowded with high-rise hotels popular with JApanese honeymooners. Surfer's Paradise is the jumping-off point for the Big Day Out tour, a sort of Australian Lollapalooza that Soundgarden will headline this year. In the lobby bar of one of the tallest hotels, Cornell and Thayil are settling back with a couple of beers when Billy Corgan from Smashing Pumpkins wanders through, and decides to join them for a strawberry margarita. Corgan chatters about the pain of his life, the supposed incompetence of his band (everybody rolls their eyes), the lifesaving virtues of Jungian therapy, bands that suck. Cornell gets up to leave. Corgan tells Thayil how important Soundgarden used to be to him, and he baits him by saying that the Pumpkins sometimes do a cover of Soundgarden's "Outshined" that segues into a Depeche Mode song or something.

"I'm thinking of making my next album really new wave," Corgan says, "like '83-'84 new wave, not like Berlin. I spend all my time doing things that may be a bit tangential, but I think I'm going to go back to the core, the heart music. Echo and the Bunnymen."

This is standard stuff to anybody who has read even a single Billy Corgan profile, the basic curriculum of Pumpkins 101. But Thayil isn't buying. He's sore.

"Don't you see," Thayil says, "you're this incredibly talented guy. People like your music. You have a good band. You sell a lot of records. You don't need all this...stuff."

"What sign are you?" Corgan asks.

"What do you mean, what sign am I?" Thayil says. "What difference could that possibly make?"

"C'mon," wheedles Corgan, "when is your birthday?"

"All right, goddamn it: September 4th."

"Aha!" Corgan says. "A Virgo. You're argumentative."

"Damn right, I'm argumentative," Thayil says, and takes a long, angry pulll at his beer, "which you should know because I've been arguing with you for half an hour, not because of any sign."

"I'm a Pisces," Corgan replies. "We pick up on those things."

A minute later, Corgan, still probing, finally finds the key to Thayil's heart: "I hate how in magazine pictures, they always stick me somewhere in the back."

Thayil explodes: "What do you mean? You write all the songs, and you do all the interviews. You play the instruments on the album. You control the band to the extent that most people think of Smashing Pumpkins as the Billy Corgan Experience, and all you care about is some photograph?"

"But I hate it," Corgan says, "it means they don't think I'm the cute one."

"Ooh," Thayil says a little too loudly as Corgan walks away, "I'll bet he's going to call his therapist in Chicago, wake her up at four in the morning, and tell her about that big, mean bear who made fun of him."

The next day at the Big Day Out festival, Thayil is talking to Kim and Kelley Deal in the Breeders' dressing room when Corgan walks past wearing a long-sleeved Superman T-shirt like the one your four-year-old nephew probably owns.

"You hurt me deeply," Corgan says, touching the giant S on his chest and pouting. "You hurt me deeply in my heart." The Pumpkins go on to play the best set anybody has ever heard them play, their usual passiveness and precision overlaid with an unfamiliar scrim of anger that throws their music into brilliant relief.

Matt Cameron is a little astounded. "Kim should rent himself out as a tour shrink," he says.

[Order 66]

i always thought that article reeked of bullshit. but i wouldnt be too surprised if it was true

[fuzzyroes]

Originally Posted by Order 66

i always thought that article reeked of bullshit. but i wouldnt be too surprised if it was true

Samne here. It seemed like the guy just had a bone to pick with Corgan. You have to notice how he only includes a few sentences that took place over a "half hour" convo. Still humorous nonetheless

[emotionalfriend]

Originally Posted by T&T

Billy only hung out with the Flemions

Isn't there a picture of Billy playing basketball with the Beastie Boys or something?


As far as the Kim Deal thing goes, she said something like "I want the pill he has. The pill that makes you so fucking important."

[T&T]

Originally Posted by emotionalfriend

Isn't there a picture of Billy playing basketball with the Beastie Boys or something?

yes
http://www.blamonet.com/gallery/albu...1/billy260.jpg

but only because the jock in billy corgan can't be helped...
i'm sure billy blamed the beastie boys for losing the match.
the Deals were probably throwing off his game while cheering for Guided by Voices

[redbull]

well there was the whole pavement fiasco

[T&T]

on the nirvana thing...
http://janesaddiction.org/lollapalooza/

Nirvana officially backed out on April 7 citing a suicide attempt by lead singer Kurt Kobain earlier that spring. Unbeknown to anyone at the time, Kurt had successfully committed suicide two days prior. His body was found on April 8, 1994, the day after the band announced they were dropping out of the Lollapalooza tour.

very weird.

this starla.org chrono states that Rollingstones magazine (street release date April 21st) announced the Lolapaloza lineup with Nirvana headlining and The Pumpkins would have been the support band,,, but nirvana had already pulled out at this point... so i'm not sure that's conclusive
does anyone have this RS magazine?
I'm curious to know if SP was even on the bill before nirvana pulled. the chronology seems askew and open for lots of shitstorming.

[gisher]

I saw them at Lolla '94 in Montreal. Who knows what was going on backstage - all I know is that the Pumpkins fucking owned the stage. Their sound was massive and the crowd loved them. The Breeders, L7, Nick Cave and the Beasties were all great, but the Pumpkins were rightful headliners (in Nirvana's absence) and delivered the goods.

[bahnzah]

Originally Posted by DiscoJon

http://web.stargate.net/soundgarden/...pin_4-94.shtml

A couple of days and a harrowing plane flight later, the band makes it to a resort town called Surfer's Paradise, which is more or less the Miami Beach of Australia, a skinny coastal town about an hour south of Brisbane, pounded by waves and plagued with jellyfish, crowded with high-rise hotels popular with JApanese honeymooners. Surfer's Paradise is the jumping-off point for the Big Day Out tour, a sort of Australian Lollapalooza that Soundgarden will headline this year. In the lobby bar of one of the tallest hotels, Cornell and Thayil are settling back with a couple of beers when Billy Corgan from Smashing Pumpkins wanders through, and decides to join them for a strawberry margarita. Corgan chatters about the pain of his life, the supposed incompetence of his band (everybody rolls their eyes), the lifesaving virtues of Jungian therapy, bands that suck. Cornell gets up to leave. Corgan tells Thayil how important Soundgarden used to be to him, and he baits him by saying that the Pumpkins sometimes do a cover of Soundgarden's "Outshined" that segues into a Depeche Mode song or something.

"I'm thinking of making my next album really new wave," Corgan says, "like '83-'84 new wave, not like Berlin. I spend all my time doing things that may be a bit tangential, but I think I'm going to go back to the core, the heart music. Echo and the Bunnymen."

This is standard stuff to anybody who has read even a single Billy Corgan profile, the basic curriculum of Pumpkins 101. But Thayil isn't buying. He's sore.

"Don't you see," Thayil says, "you're this incredibly talented guy. People like your music. You have a good band. You sell a lot of records. You don't need all this...stuff."

"What sign are you?" Corgan asks.

"What do you mean, what sign am I?" Thayil says. "What difference could that possibly make?"

"C'mon," wheedles Corgan, "when is your birthday?"

"All right, goddamn it: September 4th."

"Aha!" Corgan says. "A Virgo. You're argumentative."

"Damn right, I'm argumentative," Thayil says, and takes a long, angry pulll at his beer, "which you should know because I've been arguing with you for half an hour, not because of any sign."

"I'm a Pisces," Corgan replies. "We pick up on those things."

A minute later, Corgan, still probing, finally finds the key to Thayil's heart: "I hate how in magazine pictures, they always stick me somewhere in the back."

Thayil explodes: "What do you mean? You write all the songs, and you do all the interviews. You play the instruments on the album. You control the band to the extent that most people think of Smashing Pumpkins as the Billy Corgan Experience, and all you care about is some photograph?"

"But I hate it," Corgan says, "it means they don't think I'm the cute one."

"Ooh," Thayil says a little too loudly as Corgan walks away, "I'll bet he's going to call his therapist in Chicago, wake her up at four in the morning, and tell her about that big, mean bear who made fun of him."

The next day at the Big Day Out festival, Thayil is talking to Kim and Kelley Deal in the Breeders' dressing room when Corgan walks past wearing a long-sleeved Superman T-shirt like the one your four-year-old nephew probably owns.

"You hurt me deeply," Corgan says, touching the giant S on his chest and pouting. "You hurt me deeply in my heart." The Pumpkins go on to play the best set anybody has ever heard them play, their usual passiveness and precision overlaid with an unfamiliar scrim of anger that throws their music into brilliant relief.

Matt Cameron is a little astounded. "Kim should rent himself out as a tour shrink," he says.

was looking for this the other day.

fucking classic.

[Fonzie]

Originally Posted by DiscoJon

http://web.stargate.net/soundgarden/...pin_4-94.shtml

A couple of days and a harrowing plane flight later, the band makes it to a resort town called Surfer's Paradise, which is more or less the Miami Beach of Australia, a skinny coastal town about an hour south of Brisbane, pounded by waves and plagued with jellyfish, crowded with high-rise hotels popular with JApanese honeymooners. Surfer's Paradise is the jumping-off point for the Big Day Out tour, a sort of Australian Lollapalooza that Soundgarden will headline this year. In the lobby bar of one of the tallest hotels, Cornell and Thayil are settling back with a couple of beers when Billy Corgan from Smashing Pumpkins wanders through, and decides to join them for a strawberry margarita. Corgan chatters about the pain of his life, the supposed incompetence of his band (everybody rolls their eyes), the lifesaving virtues of Jungian therapy, bands that suck. Cornell gets up to leave. Corgan tells Thayil how important Soundgarden used to be to him, and he baits him by saying that the Pumpkins sometimes do a cover of Soundgarden's "Outshined" that segues into a Depeche Mode song or something.

"I'm thinking of making my next album really new wave," Corgan says, "like '83-'84 new wave, not like Berlin. I spend all my time doing things that may be a bit tangential, but I think I'm going to go back to the core, the heart music. Echo and the Bunnymen."

This is standard stuff to anybody who has read even a single Billy Corgan profile, the basic curriculum of Pumpkins 101. But Thayil isn't buying. He's sore.

"Don't you see," Thayil says, "you're this incredibly talented guy. People like your music. You have a good band. You sell a lot of records. You don't need all this...stuff."

"What sign are you?" Corgan asks.

"What do you mean, what sign am I?" Thayil says. "What difference could that possibly make?"

"C'mon," wheedles Corgan, "when is your birthday?"

"All right, goddamn it: September 4th."

"Aha!" Corgan says. "A Virgo. You're argumentative."

"Damn right, I'm argumentative," Thayil says, and takes a long, angry pulll at his beer, "which you should know because I've been arguing with you for half an hour, not because of any sign."

"I'm a Pisces," Corgan replies. "We pick up on those things."

A minute later, Corgan, still probing, finally finds the key to Thayil's heart: "I hate how in magazine pictures, they always stick me somewhere in the back."

Thayil explodes: "What do you mean? You write all the songs, and you do all the interviews. You play the instruments on the album. You control the band to the extent that most people think of Smashing Pumpkins as the Billy Corgan Experience, and all you care about is some photograph?"

"But I hate it," Corgan says, "it means they don't think I'm the cute one."

"Ooh," Thayil says a little too loudly as Corgan walks away, "I'll bet he's going to call his therapist in Chicago, wake her up at four in the morning, and tell her about that big, mean bear who made fun of him."

The next day at the Big Day Out festival, Thayil is talking to Kim and Kelley Deal in the Breeders' dressing room when Corgan walks past wearing a long-sleeved Superman T-shirt like the one your four-year-old nephew probably owns.

"You hurt me deeply," Corgan says, touching the giant S on his chest and pouting. "You hurt me deeply in my heart." The Pumpkins go on to play the best set anybody has ever heard them play, their usual passiveness and precision overlaid with an unfamiliar scrim of anger that throws their music into brilliant relief.

Matt Cameron is a little astounded. "Kim should rent himself out as a tour shrink," he says.

I saw them on that Big Day Out tour (Feb 5 94).

They were awesome, and if I'm fair, stole Soundgarden's thunder.

[FoolofaTook]

an inauspicious omen, that interview was, quoth the jedi master

[emotionalfriend]

Originally Posted by T&T

yes
http://www.blamonet.com/gallery/albu...1/billy260.jpg

but only because the jock in billy corgan can't be helped...
i'm sure billy blamed the beastie boys for losing the match.
the Deals were probably throwing off his game while cheering for Guided by Voices

You know, I didn't think of this when I posted, but the Flemions were probably the other guys on Billy's team

Originally Posted by T&T

on the nirvana thing...
http://janesaddiction.org/lollapalooza/

very weird.

this starla.org chrono states that Rollingstones magazine (street release date April 21st) announced the Lolapaloza lineup with Nirvana headlining and The Pumpkins would have been the support band,,, but nirvana had already pulled out at this point... so i'm not sure that's conclusive
does anyone have this RS magazine?
I'm curious to know if SP was even on the bill before nirvana pulled. the chronology seems askew and open for lots of shitstorming.

I seem to recall hearing somewhere, I'm thinking MTV News, that Nirvana and SP were co-headliners for Lolla that year prior to Kurt's death. I'm not sure how accurate that was though

[iPumpkin]

I was there at 2 shows in Detroit. The show was horrible. Bill made a point to rag on everything the locals held dear. He brought out a dummy and pretended to kill it and called it Bob Seger. He ripped into Ted Nugent, the car industry, the USA, atheists, etc. Then he started a 40 minute feedback solo and 60% of the place cleared out. He started calling everyone leaving names. That was the 1st night. The 2nd show he didn't say shit and they still left. Beastie Boys were really good and I'm not a big fan by any means.

[emotionalfriend]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kr-VzLRvnK4

[Trotskilicious]

NICK CAVE was on this tour? How mindbendingly AWESOME.

[Trotskilicious]

Originally Posted by iPumpkin

I was there at 2 shows in Detroit. The show was horrible. Bill made a point to rag on everything the locals held dear. He brought out a dummy and pretended to kill it and called it Bob Seger. He ripped into Ted Nugent, the car industry, the USA, atheists, etc. Then he started a 40 minute feedback solo and 60% of the place cleared out. He started calling everyone leaving names. That was the 1st night. The 2nd show he didn't say shit and they still left. Beastie Boys were really good and I'm not a big fan by any means.

Yeah there's reasons why this band never got the respect it probably deserved. I mean I was annoyed as a 14 year old seeing the MCIS tour and Bill's up there repeatedly complaining that we weren't making enough noise. Now that I'm older I realize that a lot of bands complain about this fact concerning Austin crowds and it's because we're not easily impressed. It generally never works out very well.

But at least he didn't do all of that. Ted Nugent and Bob Seger suck tho but don't tell Detroit. Just be like IGGY POP WOULD ASS RAPE TED NUGENT and then launch into a blistering cover of Search & Destroy.

[starlightvideoproductions]

Coming from the Nirvana board, apparently Nirvana (probably just Kurt) was never 100% with playing headliners. It was announced, I even have an In Utero promo window sticker saying they were headlining. However, apparently Cobain never agreed to it. This is another murder theory by the way. Record company exs mad he backed out and offed him. Dumb theory, but its out there.

[Trotskilicious]

KIRK KOBAIN IS STILL ALIFE

[emotionalfriend]

Originally Posted by starlightvideoproductions

Coming from the Nirvana board, apparently Nirvana (probably just Kurt) was never 100% with playing headliners. It was announced, I even have an In Utero promo window sticker saying they were headlining. However, apparently Cobain never agreed to it. This is another murder theory by the way. Record company exs mad he backed out and offed him. Dumb theory, but its out there.

Are you saying Suge Knight killed Kurt, too?

[KManXC]

I went to the Saratoga show, was my first concert ever. I was 17 and just graduated from high school. I remember the Beastie Boys and Pumpkins being well above expectation.

Where does the time go...

[Trotskilicious]

it all happens at once and we have to process it in a linear fashion