The new tour will only feature music from the bands original run

[Gooch]

Great point. Unless they had some sort of unconventional music contract setup, which I doubt, BC is the sole one making most of the money off the SP catalogue, from now till forever. I seriously doubt DArcy is making much off the band each year. But totally can see BC being passive aggressive with dealing with DArcy to make it all about him, while minimizing her contribution, effort, or financial situation, while making it out that the real issue is what HE'S going through. Which is typical BC, as he's always been, which is what seems to have happened, which makes sense all around.



And hey, dont forget, maybe 'People and Their Cars' drained the bank account too. THAT was a huge endeavor.

[johncg]

Originally Posted by Gooch

Great point. Unless they had some sort of unconventional music contract setup, which I doubt, BC is the sole one making most of the money off the SP catalogue, from now till forever. I seriously doubt DArcy is making much off the band each year. But totally can see BC being passive aggressive with dealing with DArcy to make it all about him, while minimizing her contribution, effort, or financial situation, while making it out that the real issue is what HE'S going through. Which is typical BC, as he's always been, which is what seems to have happened, which makes sense all around.



And hey, dont forget, maybe 'People and Their Cars' drained the bank account too. THAT was a huge endeavor.

Lolol

Billy has said in several interviews (the Howard Stern ones come to mind) that he negotiated a "keyman clause" at the very beginning of the Pumpkins being signed, meaning that he himself is the smashing pumpkins and the other 3 are essentially hired guns, even though the band was always presented as a whole. A keyman clause is commonly used in bands where the frontman is the primary songwriter and wants to be entitled to leave at any time and take the band name with him. No doubt it also provides that person with some extra financial perks. Billy has also said in interviews that there is no way possible James and Darcy should have enough money to live off from the Pumpkins, which is entirely believable. Sadly it is very possible (even back in the heyday of the music industry) to be a touring and recording musician with a very famous band but only earn enough to sustain yourself from tour to tour. The real money in music is in passive income from royalties and licensing. Playing a show or a tour, or playing on a record, only gives you a one time per diem sort of fee. It is likely that James, Darcy, and Jimmy, would have gotten a cut of merch sales and things like that. But Billy no doubt would always take the lions share of that pie.

I think part of the reason bands like Green Day and Radiohead have survived so long with their original lineups is that the songwriting credit is distributed evenly for every published song regardless of who writes what. This ensures that while the frontman might still end up with a little more money or fame, everyone in the band is still mostly at the same level financially for the life of the band. It prevents resentments and shit from getting out of control. And honestly I think it's fair because even though legally you can only copyright melody and lyric, I think the instumental parts of someone like Jimmy are as compositionly relevant to the whole song as Billy's...if not more so. And no doubt the tastemaking erudition of James and Darcy in SP were absolutely crucial from a compositional standpoint. There's no arguing that in my opinion. Billy taking all the royalties is totally legal but also I think unfair.

At any rate I do know a few touring musicians who are "hired guns" and I can tell you it's astounding how a person can be performing at the highest level in front of thousands of people every night only to return home from a year long tour with not even enough money to get their own place.

It speaks volumes about Billy's insensitivity that he would be bitching to Darcy about his financial situation after making millions of off how she "looked like she could play her instrument" before discarding her and moving on to his next project.

[reprise85]

good insight there. what a numbskull

[ilikeplanets]

it's "smart" but totally fucked up. the trump comparison definitely applies here.

[Ram27]

Originally Posted by johncg

I think part of the reason bands like Green Day and Radiohead have survived so long with their original lineups is that the songwriting credit is distributed evenly for every published song regardless of who writes what.

I hate when bands don't do that. Each member is contributing 1/4 of the sonic scope and should be contributed equally

[FoolofaTook]

“In my world I was like Michael Jordan,” he reminisced. “I could go to the hoop every time if I wante..."


Yeah OK.

[bigoltitties]

I played for a while with someone who recorded an album produced by Flood. She said Flood had warned her about being in a band where the money is not evenly split. Always destructive. Pumpkins being a prime example he had mentioned.

On the other hand, they did give all the profits from the Adore (?) tour to charity and give Machina II away for free before that was a thing, so Billy is not all bad.

[pavementtune]

Originally Posted by bigoltitties

On the other hand, they did give all the profits from the Adore (?) tour to charity

the US leg of the Adore tour, yes, (the european tour profits did not go to charity), which is nice enough and good marketing after the shitshow they had with a drug death.

Originally Posted by bigoltitties

so Billy is not all bad.

was. past tense. unless what business decisions someone made 20 years ago is enough for you to disregard what he does now and did for the past 10.

[bigoltitties]

Originally Posted by pavementtune

the US leg of the Adore tour, yes, (the european tour profits did not go to charity), which is nice enough and good marketing after the shitshow they had with a drug death.



was. past tense. unless what business decisions someone made 20 years ago is enough for you to disregard what he does now and did for the past 10.

True, im just pointing out that there has been a narrative for a long time that he is 100% an over controlling selfish manipulative asshole and that has never been entirely true, and still probably isnt to this day.

Fucking hell, how have I found myself in the position of defending Bills character!

[pavementtune]

well I think you can be a controlling personality and selfish and an asshole at your core and still do some good stuff here and there. be it promoting a no kill shelter or doing that in 1998. nobody is just one thing.



I am all of it myself and occasionally do things that are not all bad. it just doesn't change who or what you are overall, does it? If I keep screwing people who work for me and then give 20 bucks to the cat charity at christmas, am I less of an ass? I don't think so, but it sure feels nice to buy myself brownie points.


for me personally it just changes bit, as long as what someone puts out artistically is "up there" I don't care all that much if they are "good people" or not. (Usually I am not aware of what they do anyway.)

once you stick around for 18 years of underwhelming to straight up horrible (TBKK) AFTER the band you cared about broke up, it helps if you get brief moments of "oh I like what they do here" - be that PAWS promo or whatever else. I had no problem with going to solo gigs that donated a bit to PAWS for example. it didnt make the music any better, but at least you have no trouble to pay for it.

once you take that all out of the equation, it would be easier if you still put out music on that level. weird calculation, I know, but someone who puts out crap loses a bit of the asshole-privilege.
and it was hard enough to draw a line between the infowars belly and the musician belly for the past 5 years already. and at some point I personally have to ask myself if they and what music they make today deserve that line to be drawn. I am not that huge into nostalgia that my love for the 90ies music can prompt me to financially (or in any other way really) support this in 2018. And the 3 songs of the past 5 (realistically more like 10) years I actually really liked don't make up for this any longer either.

[phang]

Any idea how much he made from selling Today to Visa? What was the deal worth? Was it a one time advert thing or do Visa still use it / hold rights?

[Funbags]

I recall him saying he got 1 million, which he used to build a studio.

[slunken]

Originally Posted by phang

Was it a one time advert thing or do Visa still use it / hold rights?

Visa owns it. If he plays the song live his credit card gets charged.