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Old 10-08-2016, 09:47 PM   #31
Elphenor
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Originally Posted by teh b0lly!!1 View Post
brand of music elitism
read as: good tastes

 
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Old 10-08-2016, 09:47 PM   #32
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it really isn't

there are some acts that really did do something revolutionary or "special" whether you think what they did was good is subjective
I mean this is just wrong. It is entirely subjective. There are artists in history who were lauded in their time and have been forgotten because they don't speak to new cultural values. There are artists who were dismissed and then much later became culturally relevant to people. It is 100% subjective to the bone, don't delude yourself.

 
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Old 10-08-2016, 09:48 PM   #33
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do you guys do anything but shitpost
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Originally Posted by Elphenor View Post
the awesome thing about thread titles is that they tell you what the thread is going to be about so if you don't give a fuck about the subject, in this case a punk band, you can just not click on the thread

 
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Old 10-08-2016, 09:49 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Elphenor View Post
read as: good tastes
this reads like blatant trolling, i truly hope that's what it is. for your sake, dude.

 
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Old 10-08-2016, 09:51 PM   #35
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I did give a fuck about the subject though

I always have an opinion

that was in response to people not even coming to say "fuck the clash" just to say nothing for three pages

 
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Old 10-08-2016, 09:51 PM   #36
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anyway, rbg

this paragraph succinctly sums up a lot of why i like and appreciate good pop music.
it's a shame not enough people realize this. it's ever so easy to go "what bro it's just 3 chords, i could write that in my sleep lolz!"

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I also think I have finally been able to admit that writing good pop music is a true skill. The attitude from the "serious" music world is that pop is simple and anyone can do it but that's not true. 3EB for example are all very proficient musicians and putting songs together how they do is a craft that should be taken seriously. Not any random assortment of musicians could do it. Even music I fucking hate like GNR, those guys are still playing at a level that is beyond what most musicians could ever aspire to and I think it's important to respect that even if it doesn't appeal to you. Except Axl who just fucking sucks.

 
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Old 10-08-2016, 09:53 PM   #37
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edit

Last edited by Elphenor : 10-08-2016 at 10:03 PM.

 
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Old 10-08-2016, 09:56 PM   #38
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nah man

Last edited by Elphenor : 10-08-2016 at 10:03 PM.

 
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Old 10-08-2016, 09:59 PM   #39
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nvm

 
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Old 10-08-2016, 10:04 PM   #40
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I don't like that I'm not allowed to have the opinion that Third Eye Blind is shit even for pop music without being called an elitist it's ridiculous

 
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Old 10-08-2016, 10:05 PM   #41
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time bomb

 
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Old 10-08-2016, 10:12 PM   #42
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everyone with developed tastes is pretending

what they really want to do is crack open a cold one and crank up the KISS

 
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Old 10-08-2016, 10:20 PM   #43
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?

within the context of say rock music you absolutely do have revolutionary artists I don't see how this is even debatable
what does that even mean? you have artists who changed things in some people's perceptions and others who think those artists suck or are irrelevant. I've definitely said shit like, "Blue Oyster Cult is a seminal band who influenced a generation of guitarists," but that's basically my interpretation and you probably don't agree with it. Even if I said, "Led Zeppelin is one of the most influential rock bands," that's still an opinion. It happens to be backed up by the court of cultural consensus, but that doesn't make it a fact per se... were The Who revolutionary or did they ape Link Wray?

 
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Old 10-08-2016, 10:21 PM   #44
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it's weird to see myself having arguments on netphoria I've already had in the past except now I'm on the other side

 
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Old 10-08-2016, 10:24 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by redbreegull View Post
what does that even mean? you have artists who changed things in some people's perceptions and others who think those artists suck or are irrelevant. I've definitely said shit like, "Blue Oyster Cult is a seminal band who influenced a generation of guitarists," but that's basically my interpretation and you probably don't agree with it. Even if I said, "Led Zeppelin is one of the most influential rock bands," that's still an opinion. It happens to be backed up by the court of cultural consensus, but that doesn't make it a fact per se... were The Who revolutionary or did they ape Link Wray?
I would agree Led Zeppelin were revolutionary and extremely influential

even if I can't stand their music and the direction they took The Blues

I'd be just wrong to say otherwise

 
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Old 10-08-2016, 10:25 PM   #46
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btw earlier I went to my mom's and we went and got coffee, Semi-Charmed Life came on the radio and she turned that shit up and we were both "doo doo dooting" with the windows down

 
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Old 10-08-2016, 10:25 PM   #47
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like Wire were revolutionary in what they did with punk

this is something that is just a truth

 
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Old 10-08-2016, 10:26 PM   #48
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it's your truth

 
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Old 10-08-2016, 10:28 PM   #49
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doot doot doot

 
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Old 10-08-2016, 10:30 PM   #50
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whether or not Wire is good can be said to be subjective

whether or not they created a lasting impact completely altering the way a subsantial amount of punks down the line approached music aka revolutionized is just a matter of objective history

 
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Old 10-08-2016, 10:33 PM   #51
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no it's not, just like any sort of history it's only one lens to give relational context to pieces of information. you are forming a narrative, and a narrative can i n c l u d e categorical facts but it is not a fact in of itself no matter how self-evident it seems to any individual

 
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Old 10-08-2016, 10:35 PM   #52
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the fact which is forming the kernel of what you are saying is (I think) the Wire are cited by later punk artists as an influence

 
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Old 10-08-2016, 10:44 PM   #53
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if it's not the defense then you're on the attack
when you start talking I hear the prozac
convinced you found your place
with the pierced queer teens in cyberspace
when you were yourself it tasted sweet
sours into a routine deceit

 
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Old 10-08-2016, 10:55 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redbreegull View Post
no it's not, just like any sort of history it's only one lens to give relational context to pieces of information. you are forming a narrative, and a narrative can i n c l u d e categorical facts but it is not a fact in of itself no matter how self-evident it seems to any individual
this is only true in so far as it's a subjective narrative that Caesar was an important Roman

 
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Old 10-08-2016, 10:57 PM   #55
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it can i n c l u d e categorical facts but it is not a fact in of itself no matter how self-evident it seems to any individual

 
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Old 10-08-2016, 11:37 PM   #56
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this is only true in so far as it's a subjective narrative that Caesar was an important Roman
I'm not sure if this is supposed to be a strawman, but that's correct. "Important" is an entirely subjective and relative term. I think you are falling back on the perceived consensus of a larger group to assert factuality (historians of Rome, or people who love punk music). Roman historians have more ethos than the average person to speak about Rome, and people who love punk have more ethos than the average person to speak about punk. So it's not that these consensuses are not meaningful, because they absolutely can be. I do think Zeppelin is a very important band and the consensus is correct in that regard... to me. However, that also doesn't mean you aren't ultimately dealing in the realm of opinion. Rhetoric is like a competition to paint the most compelling narrative to your audience, not to shed light on the Truth with a Capital T.

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Old 10-08-2016, 11:43 PM   #57
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Fact: Caesar was the first Emperor of Rome

Opinion: Caesar was an important Roman

if someone is of the opinion that being the first Emperor of Rome was not important, as absurd as it may seem to the context with which you are viewing the statement, they are not "wrong." You aren't more correct or objectively aligned. It is an opinion. If you can't quantify something (like the idea of "importance") that's a good indicator you aren't dealing with facts the way they are commonly understood in the post-enlightenment scientific world

 
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Old 10-08-2016, 11:49 PM   #58
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I feel like you're trying too hard to make this really unnecessary distinction

very definition of important as it pertains to artists is that it's significantly original and/or influential

as it pertains to a historical figure: having high rank or status

 
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Old 10-08-2016, 11:53 PM   #59
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this is why a sane person can recognize artists they personally don't care about as still being important

"Gang of Four is an important rock band" is a statement that is true by the definition of "important" pretty much

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Old 10-09-2016, 12:03 AM   #60
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I feel like you're trying too hard to make this really unnecessary distinction

very definition of important as it pertains to artists is that it's significantly original and/or influential

as it pertains to a historical figure: having high rank or status
Both of those statements are opinions though

 
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