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Old 05-27-2014, 12:50 AM   #31
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yes exactly

 
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Old 05-27-2014, 12:51 AM   #32
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but i mean it's quite a popular argument in favour of keeping people poor, i find

 
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Old 05-27-2014, 01:05 AM   #33
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but then again, it's a choice, isn't it? like being gay.

 
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Old 05-27-2014, 01:10 AM   #34
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damn it trots you're being an idiot in this thread.

 
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Old 05-27-2014, 01:22 AM   #35
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Bill Hader as Nader

https://screen.yahoo.com/ralph-nader-000000938.html

 
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Old 05-27-2014, 10:13 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trotskilicious View Post
what's with this socialist shit



By the way you buttwhores you realize getting the min wage up this high is only cutting into the middle class more...like i basically make this amount right now. do you think that if they raised the minimum wage I'd also get a wage rage? no? Of course not...

raising the min wage is just another way to put the clamps on the middle class. what good does it do to fix that inequality. congrats now everyone is on minimum wage great work
Is this a serious post

 
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Old 05-27-2014, 10:13 AM   #37
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Ross Perot funded a kick-ass natural science museum in Dallas, so I can forget the political absurdity. Also, SNL was so great that year.

Nader isn't even a good joke.

 
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Old 05-27-2014, 07:04 PM   #38
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I was going to mention the museum! That was cool of him. What has Nader ever done?!

 
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Old 05-27-2014, 07:18 PM   #39
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a fuckton relating to consumer protection, actually

 
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Old 05-27-2014, 07:21 PM   #40
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that's boring.

 
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Old 05-27-2014, 07:28 PM   #41
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anyone making "minimum wage" aka 15 an hour with a college education in a job that requires one want to weigh in or am i the only one

 
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Old 05-27-2014, 07:30 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reprise85 View Post
yeah, all i can think about is me, that's for sure.

your feelings seem like basically "it's not fair!" and that's a shitty reason to deny people a living wage

basically i think you should be fighting for a better wage for yourself and not begrudging people for getting a raise to your pay when everyone deserves to make a decent living.

what's your solution, keep wages shitty? for the record, I think $15/hr is stretching it, but $8 an hour or whatever is ridiculous
my solution is to have income redistribution and pay raises across the board, because america needs a pay raise

and yes, my position is that 15 dollars is completely ridiculous

it is incredibly frustrating to have worked for ten plus years starting at 2.13/hrly with tips to get to this point and tell yourself "you're doin okay, man" to just have this flung in your face that you're still basically minimum wage labor. i really feel like what i'm doing today is a lot more difficult and complex than grocery store clerk. do i feel resentment to the clerk? no. but i think massive minimum wage increases are a shortsighted populist cause. what of the vanishing middle income?

it's such an easy thing to do to pretend like you care about the proletarian but ultimately you're just raising the wage and this will ultimately inflate the market especially on commodities that rely on minimum wage labor to make the consumer good affordable, e.g. foodstuffs. over the course of the last few decades we've seen incomes stall out and become stagnant in general, not just the low end of the spectrum. It's using a band aid to stop a gunshot wound.

Last edited by Trotskilicious : 05-27-2014 at 08:02 PM.

 
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Old 05-27-2014, 07:34 PM   #43
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i voted for

gore in 2000
nader in 2004
opama in 2008
roseanne barr in 2012

i will probably write in TOC for 2016

 
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Old 05-27-2014, 07:43 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bread Regal View Post
damn it trots you're being an idiot in this thread.
FUCK YOU

one person says something fucking contrary, maybe explore the idea more fully instead of being a liberal bobblehead = "being an idiot"

 
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Old 05-27-2014, 07:49 PM   #45
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It seems like your biggest issue is not wanting to make money in amounts similar to grocery store clerks. That's pretty shitty, really. Should you be making more? Probably? I don't know. But the first goal is to get everyone to a living wage. Where everyone who works can live. That's more pressing than making sure you feel adequately compensated. I think that should be obvious?

 
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Old 05-27-2014, 07:51 PM   #46
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uh you skipped the economic part about how once you get everyone to a "living wage" all the prices on the "living commodities" will rise to make up for the increase in pay

so you're basically doing nothing

but way to center on the personal bit

 
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Old 05-27-2014, 07:54 PM   #47
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That's not true. Look at the last time minimum wage was raised. Did the price of everything suddenly skyrocket? No. So your economic argument is pretty weak here.

 
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Old 05-27-2014, 07:55 PM   #48
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also this is capitalism and exploitation of labor is inherent in the system and you're using economic controls that are proven to be ineffective at fixing the issue it is attempting to solve

 
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Old 05-27-2014, 07:56 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eulogy View Post
That's not true. Look at the last time minimum wage was raised. Did the price of everything suddenly skyrocket? No. So your economic argument is pretty weak here.
you mean just a few years ago, i think 2009? and we're already at "15 dollars an hour" after wholesale raises in food, medical, gas, utilities, rent, "living costs" in general

i don't want to bust out charts and graphs here because fuck it and i'm done with this thread but feel free to tell me what an idiot i am

 
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Old 05-27-2014, 07:56 PM   #50
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You're just parroting a republican talking point.

There are arguments made on both sides of this but I've been more convinced by the ones backed by historical sats and whatnot.

 
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Old 05-27-2014, 07:57 PM   #51
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$15 is not realistic maybe. But it's a starting point to negotiate.

 
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Old 05-28-2014, 01:14 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eulogy View Post
You're just parroting a republican talking point.

There are arguments made on both sides of this but I've been more convinced by the ones backed by historical sats and whatnot.

The law of gravity applies to economics as well. Fast-food owners are already automating certain task and that trend will be expedited by the increased labor cost from min. wage increases.

 
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Old 05-28-2014, 01:19 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eulogy View Post
It seems like your biggest issue is not wanting to make money in amounts similar to grocery store clerks. That's pretty shitty, really. Should you be making more? Probably? I don't know. But the first goal is to get everyone to a living wage. Where everyone who works can live. That's more pressing than making sure you feel adequately compensated. I think that should be obvious?
well, trots should be able to feel how he wants per his compensation, anybody should.

But I agree with your sentiment and it could be had through putting free(r) energy gadgets to market. It would greatly increase purchasing power to individuals...but you gotta negotiate with the freak cabalist for that paradigm shift and that's the battle atm.

 
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Old 05-28-2014, 01:24 AM   #54
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Free energy?

WTF? Another conspiracy post thread hijack

 
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Old 05-28-2014, 01:27 AM   #55
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Better yet, why not use magic? That'll really increase productivity! Instead of college send all the kids to Hogwarts.

 
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Old 05-28-2014, 02:07 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trotskilicious View Post
FUCK YOU

one person says something fucking contrary, maybe explore the idea more fully instead of being a liberal bobblehead = "being an idiot"
i know raising the minimum wage isn't a silver bullet but rather part of a larger framework of policy that would reduce class inequality. i would consider stricter enforcement of anti-trust laws to be the other main part of it. and things like infrastucture revitalization (most cities, public transport is dogshit), tax reform (mitt romney's tax rate is 14.9%), educational reform (technical high schools need to become a thing again).

yes, my perspective on this issue is textbook keynesian economics, but that's not a bad thing necessarily. plus there is also the moral question of whether we should permit employers to have people give them 40 hours per week of their time without giving them enough to take care of themselves in the most fundamental way, forget about saving money.

Last edited by Bread Regal : 05-28-2014 at 02:13 AM.

 
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Old 05-28-2014, 02:27 AM   #57
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I get that you said it would cut into the middle class, but really, what about the lower class. Are they plebs who do not deserve the basic standard of living that allows them to survive in america?

It seems to me that hourly workers with a higher wage have a higher disposable income thereby increasing the velocity of their money through the economy. Or they can elect to work less and use their spare time to make a better future for themselves. They're not trying to scam anybody man they just want their rug back.

Since the US has a service economy and our manufacturing sector has been shrinking for however long, it seems to me that if you allow people to develop skills that are valuable to others, they will actually pursue that. Flipping burgers is still flipping burgers and even if you're making $10.10 an hour, you'd probably rather do something else for the same pay. Higher wages would facilitate that lateral transition, would it not?

With the exception of the indutries in the private sector which provide the essentials (energy, agriculture, et al), I think it's safe to say that if you can't pay a living wage to your workers without being subsidized, your product isn't worth buying.

 
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Old 05-28-2014, 02:37 AM   #58
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maybe he's an accelerationist
not really a respectable position but it is an understandable one

 
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Old 05-28-2014, 02:42 AM   #59
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I thought for sure he was trolling.

Nobody is that conceded

 
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Old 05-28-2014, 03:22 AM   #60
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you're right, nobody is that conceded

 
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