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Old 02-16-2019, 05:17 PM   #31
redbreegull
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I agree, she would have been a very good pres

 
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Old 02-16-2019, 05:18 PM   #32
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I’m still bitter about the 2008 primary because the only real policy difference was on an individual mandate for health insurance. Obama opposed it. Clinton supported it. We know what happened.

 
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Old 02-16-2019, 05:18 PM   #33
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Don’t get me wrong though I really love Barack Obama.

 
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Old 02-16-2019, 05:20 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Elphenor View Post
I like Lizzy Warren too

I think in strictly policy terms Bernie is just slightly left of her

sadly I think she's far less electable though
Why?

She has actually laid out how to accomplish what she wants to do. Bernie never did that.

 
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Old 02-16-2019, 05:25 PM   #35
redbreegull
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Why?

She has actually laid out how to accomplish what she wants to do. Bernie never did that.
just a guess but probably because people don't vote on logical things like this

 
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Old 02-16-2019, 05:26 PM   #36
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So admittedly this is kind of personal. I witnessed someone go from a sanders supporter to a trump supporter. I think they both fire similar neurons for stupid people.

The whole anti-establishment idea is monstrously stupid and he hung his hat on it. So when it came to the general... we all know what happened.

I do not have very solid data on this but I feel it in my fucking bones. Which is a bad way to think about stuff but we have so many great candidates now. He needs to fuck off.
Ah. I guess I don't think that the fact that many people were attracted to him for unsophisticated reasons says much about his policies themselves. Like, yeah, Fuzzy is a classic example, liking both Sanders and Trump, despite the fact that they've got completely opposing policies, because they are both "anti-establishment," and that is more of an emotive style than a policy. People like Fuzzy aren't interested in policies, only the images of politicians.

When it came to the policies, I think Sanders' were good, though.

And, as bad as it is, if there were a Democratic candidate with good policies who happened to win Trump's base's votes for purely aesthetic reasons, would that be a bad thing? Some Trump voters voted for Obama because his image was the "hopey-changey guy" in 2008. These people are idiots, anyway. May as well allow them to be useful idiots.

 
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Old 02-16-2019, 05:28 PM   #37
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Ah. I guess I don't think that the fact that many people were attracted to him for unsophisticated reasons says much about his policies themselves. Like, yeah, Fuzzy is a classic example, liking both Sanders and Trump, despite the fact that they've got completely opposing policies, because they are both "anti-establishment," and that is more of an emotive style than a policy. People like Fuzzy aren't interested in policies, only the images of politicians.

When it came to the policies, I think Sanders' were good, though.

And, as bad as it is, if there were a Democratic candidate with good policies who happened to win Trump's base's votes for purely aesthetic reasons, would that be a bad thing? Some Trump voters voted for Obama because his image was the "hopey-changey guy" in 2008. These people are idiots, anyway. May as well allow them to be useful idiots.
Youíre right but goddamn thatís depressing isnít it?

 
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Old 02-16-2019, 05:29 PM   #38
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I will push back on the idea that sanders has actual policies though. He refused to just say “soak the rich.” Warren is saying it.

 
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Old 02-16-2019, 05:41 PM   #39
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Sanders has been saying some form of that for decades now where as Warren used to be a Republican

Sanders stood almost alone in naming the enemy for quite awhile

just being honest

 
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Old 02-16-2019, 05:55 PM   #40
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most the Bernie Bros were people who would not have voted for a democrat anyway

the data I've seen suggests the large majority of Bernie primary voters still showed up for Hillary, granted that number should have been 100%

the divide was worse when it came time for Hillary voters to show up for Obama

*shrugs*

 
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Old 02-16-2019, 06:05 PM   #41
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Sanders has been saying some form of that for decades now where as Warren used to be a Republican

Sanders stood almost alone in naming the enemy for quite awhile

just being honest
Oh my god she has spent her entire life as a consumer advocate and Bernie Sanders has never done anything. He yells about what he wants but never puts the time in to figure out how to actually get it.

I donít give a fuck what Warren was registered as in the 80s and if you do you are fucking this up.

 
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Old 02-17-2019, 04:30 AM   #42
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being that he's an independent it's not surprising he doesn't author a lot of the bills democrats vote on

But he has been called the "Amendment King" working away behind the scenes pushing legislation to the left

then theres his success in shaming Jeff Bezos into raising pay for warehouse employees

 
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Old 02-17-2019, 09:41 AM   #43
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I feel that the things that actually matter are gonna be fucked no matter who wins a next election. during Obama as well as Trump the climate is getting completely fucked over, the rich are getting richer and the poor poorer, ugly wars are being fought over the world with America's help.

trump and his message are a lot uglier to look at and to listen to but I don't think that during Obama enough was done to stop catastrophic consequences of climate change or to actually end poverty and in the end I don't believe the democrats are gonna deliver a candidate that, even when they would actually try to, would be able to actually make a change.

you're fucked, America, and so is the rest of the world.

 
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Old 02-17-2019, 09:45 AM   #44
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well the new wave of democrats like AOC are finally putting an emphasis on the big existential threats

Bernie attacking money in politics was the start of that imo

however nah just like in 2016 there is a huge difference between 4 years of Trump and say Liz Warren

 
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Old 02-17-2019, 09:52 AM   #45
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Can we unban Fuzzy for this one thread, please?

 
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Old 02-17-2019, 09:54 AM   #46
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Although there seems to be some infighting, imagine if someone supported the other side!

 
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Old 02-17-2019, 10:00 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by Elphenor View Post
being that he's an independent it's not surprising he doesn't author a lot of the bills democrats vote on

But he has been called the "Amendment King" working away behind the scenes pushing legislation to the left

then theres his success in shaming Jeff Bezos into raising pay for warehouse employees
What are some of these amendments

 
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Old 02-17-2019, 10:02 AM   #48
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well the new wave of democrats like AOC are finally putting an emphasis on the big existential threats

Bernie attacking money in politics was the start of that imo

however nah just like in 2016 there is a huge difference between 4 years of Trump and say Liz Warren
Democrats have been opposed to unlimited pac spending forever. Citizens United was decided in 2010.

 
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Old 02-17-2019, 10:19 AM   #49
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in trump country warren’s indian act reads as laughable liberal hypocracy. not sure why the left, so typically concerned about “cultural appropriation” and policing identity performance, is giving her a pass. one could argue that her claiming indian to advance her career is more racist than the blackface stuff. it’s not going to go away and its unsustainable. hopefully she drops out early and plays attack dog for whoever ends up in the progressive lane.

also hillary elected trump.

 
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Old 02-17-2019, 10:24 AM   #50
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can we please focus on the unbanishment of Fuzzrod?

thank u

 
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Old 02-17-2019, 10:40 AM   #51
Eulogy
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in trump country warrenís indian act reads as laughable liberal hypocracy. not sure why the left, so typically concerned about ďcultural appropriationĒ and policing identity performance, is giving her a pass. one could argue that her claiming indian to advance her career is more racist than the blackface stuff. itís not going to go away and its unsustainable. hopefully she drops out early and plays attack dog for whoever ends up in the progressive lane.

also hillary elected trump.
One could certainly argue it but that would be stupid

 
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Old 02-17-2019, 10:55 AM   #52
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the racism of both acts derives from impersonating an “other”; one with intent to mock and deride, one to fraudulently advance a white person’s career in a white and poweful profession.

i don’t think it’s useful to get into a “who is more racist” argument, but it is important to recognize warren’s impersonation as a racist act. everyone makes mistakes and i dont think she needs to resign in disgrace, but i think it has already sunk her candidacy.

 
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Old 02-17-2019, 12:20 PM   #53
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the racism of both acts derives from impersonating an ďotherĒ; one with intent to mock and deride, one to fraudulently advance a white personís career in a white and poweful profession.

i donít think itís useful to get into a ďwho is more racistĒ argument, but it is important to recognize warrenís impersonation as a racist act. everyone makes mistakes and i dont think she needs to resign in disgrace, but i think it has already sunk her candidacy.
Impersonation is a bizarre word choice.

 
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Old 02-17-2019, 12:20 PM   #54
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It will only sink her candidacy if people treat it like Clinton’s fucking emails.

I hate this.

 
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Old 02-17-2019, 12:50 PM   #55
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I thought it was no big deal, really typical thing lots of white people think they have significant native ancestry

but then she went into playing into Trump's trolling with the DNA test, and now I'm kinda like this would be a shitshow

 
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Old 02-17-2019, 03:15 PM   #56
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Democrats have been opposed to unlimited pac spending forever. Citizens United was decided in 2010.
but it didn't seem to occur to them that it was a bad idea to accept legalized bribes

it was more "pragmatic" to lose at every single level of government in the country

was it at least fair when Warren criticised Democrats for this? Such as when she pointed out a specific instance where lobbyists appeared to have swayed Hillary to the detriment of consumers (go figure)

 
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Old 02-17-2019, 06:29 PM   #57
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but it didn't seem to occur to them that it was a bad idea to accept legalized bribes

it was more "pragmatic" to lose at every single level of government in the country

was it at least fair when Warren criticised Democrats for this? Such as when she pointed out a specific instance where lobbyists appeared to have swayed Hillary to the detriment of consumers (go figure)
What are you even talking about. The bankruptcy legislation that passed when Hillary Clinton didnít hold elected office?

Still waiting for the amendment king examples btw.

And you donít bring a knife to a gun fight. If itís legal to take money you take what you can get.

 
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Old 02-17-2019, 06:34 PM   #58
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I think thatís the thing about Hillary Clinton. Sheís a good politician. Some people think good politicians are the best people to elect to the legislature. Some people think they are the worst people to elect to a legislature. I guess it depends on your own boundary for where pragmatism turns into soul selling

 
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Old 02-17-2019, 06:36 PM   #59
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Because regardless of how the rest of the country or even her constituency are doing, all of us are cynical enough to say that politics has been good business for Hillary Clinton, financially

 
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Old 02-17-2019, 06:41 PM   #60
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Because regardless of how the rest of the country or even her constituency are doing, all of us are cynical enough to say that politics has been good business for Hillary Clinton, financially
It has been for Bernie Sanders too

 
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