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10-13-2015, 09:33 PM | #121 | |
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guess it's also the lack of communication skills that we don't get equal pay. It makes me really happy to find out sexism is a myth, really it's just bad communication. fabricated by bored white, ATTRACTIVE young women, right? Last edited by pavementtune : 10-13-2015 at 09:40 PM. |
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10-13-2015, 09:38 PM | #122 |
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If you're not paid equally, you should take them to court - is there not legislation to protect you, in the U.S.? There is, here.
Women on the whole, are paid less here, because the work arrangements tend to be different after they have children. So because they work park time, their salary decreases, because the nature of the work that they can engage with, and the nature of their engagement with that work, is different. |
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10-13-2015, 09:38 PM | #123 | |
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10-13-2015, 09:46 PM | #124 |
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Oh well I mean they can't even get upset about how attractive people are given more opportunities than ugly people. They really have nothing to complain about, and they have no interests or hobbies and an abundance of spare time, so they just start making stuff up, to feel indignant about.
Oh, poor privileged little me, having to live in a society where women are undervalued and nobody appreciates chick flicks or NSYNC just because girls like them. So awful. So sad. Neva 4get I once said to charms, it could have been sexism with you, or it could have been bottled water. you just needed something in your life that felt important and like you understood it. She got pretty pissed. |
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10-13-2015, 09:46 PM | #125 | |
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10-13-2015, 09:48 PM | #126 |
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oh course that doesn't mean that SOME black people aren't marginalized. that can happen to a lot of people, black and white, who lack the communication skills to establish their competence for a job
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10-13-2015, 09:49 PM | #127 |
Minion of Satan
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so if young white people want to get involved politically, they're just full of shit and are looking for a way to justify their easy empty lives?
also you probably meant to add middle class there. |
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10-13-2015, 09:52 PM | #128 | |
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10-13-2015, 09:53 PM | #129 | |
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Oh yeah, you're right. Absolutely. |
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10-13-2015, 09:55 PM | #130 |
Minion of Satan
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i smell classism and racism in here.
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10-13-2015, 09:56 PM | #131 |
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10-13-2015, 09:57 PM | #132 |
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it may be true that it's a class thing but it's also a racism as an institution thing. i wont pretend to know more about sexism than i do but the fact that women have a harder time getting high position jobs has to be rooted in something, doesnt it? and yeah im sure a lot is based on the idea that they will want or already have babies and can't be a corporate drone 24/7, but is that really acceptable?
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10-13-2015, 09:58 PM | #133 | |
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10-13-2015, 10:02 PM | #134 | |
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no thanks, also I don't want to ruin your nice WHITE suburbian bubble, you can do your trolling just fine without getting in touch with reality. |
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10-13-2015, 10:10 PM | #135 | |||||
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There's this one study where university students were lectured by a person who related valuable information, but was very dry, as well as a person spouting nonsense, but who was very charismatic and entertaining. Students rated the latter lecturer as "more knowledgeable," despite the fact that his lectures lacked the substance of the former. Quote:
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Plenty of women have complained about not being taken seriously in the professional world. You just may not happen to be personally acquainted with them. I mean, in STEM fields, 70% of women surveyed have said that they've faced sexual harrassment from superiors. That may be part of why so many quit and don't go as far in their careers as men. And then we look at the disparity and go, "well, if women want to be equal to men, they ought to just go into the same fields and work hard instead of complaining or getting arts degrees." |
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10-13-2015, 10:28 PM | #136 |
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10-13-2015, 10:36 PM | #137 |
Shut the fuck up!
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Ugh
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10-13-2015, 10:36 PM | #138 |
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You cite a lot of facts, studies and statistics without sources...it's hard to know how seriously to take them.
I don't know if they just build women more robust where I'm from, but the women I know who chose to work in STEM fields would report unwanted sexual attention by a superior. My all girls high school celebrated the fact that NZ was the first country to give women the vote, and we learned about suffragettes who starved themselves and were painfully force-fed, or were trampled to death just so that we could vote, and we were strongly counselled not to take that for granted. Quite often. We were made aware of many societies in the world, both historical and current, that did not formally educate females. My school was also in the capital and in the same neighbourhood as parliament, so perhaps we enjoyed some kind of educational privilege. That being the case, being sexually harassed would be a problem that could be fixed, for myself and for women I know. Sexual harassment is grounds for dismissal. Have them dismissed. If they can't be dismissed, then ask to not be left alone with them and work hard to usurp their position. Seek counsel from a psychologist so you can be more assertive. Ask your union rep what can be done. Investigate and discern the relevant government authority, and seek advice. The fact that this is not common practice, enough that sexual harassment is still prevalent, in my mind shows that a lot of women are ignorant and unprepared for work when they enter the workplace, and those women who have entered it before us, haven't adhered to the old adage that you should leave a place in a better state than you found it in when you arrived. Which is sad. Though I'm sure Jewelian will have something to say about how hard it is to stand up for your values. |
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10-13-2015, 10:40 PM | #139 |
Socialphobic
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I'm totally serious. Pretty sure he is, too. It's not as simple as "poor old black folk". That in itself is a racist attitude, right? To think that a person's skin color still determines their future, as opposed to a person's family of origin, their parents level of education, whether or not their parents are employed, etc.
If you see a preppy college guy whose skin is dark you'd be racist to think that he'd had to overcome some shit just to be at uni. So it's not really a "black" problem. It's a class problem...isn't it? |
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10-13-2015, 10:44 PM | #140 |
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I'm supposed to be writing an essay right now, so I'm more worried about citing my essay sources than my forum post sources, but when I get time, I will. I at least remembered the authors of one of them, and the year of the study, so it should be relatively painless for you to find that one.
Women learning to stand up for not being discriminated against is great and empowering and all, but we should keep in mind that men have the privilege of never having to learn skills to overcome and cope with sexism against them, and ask why. |
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10-13-2015, 10:46 PM | #141 |
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Plenty of men have needed to overcome other things, though - being Jewish, Catholic, Muslim, black, brown, Italian, not being a native speaker of the local language.
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10-13-2015, 10:48 PM | #142 |
Socialphobic
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Lack of education, poverty, inherited debts...
The problem isn't that women are disadvantaged in a male dominated workplace. The problem is that in any workplace there are always a couple of Crackberry Dumbasses who try to push other people around to gain an advantage of some kind, and at the moment, if they're not reported and disciplined, they actually end up being rewarded. |
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10-13-2015, 10:49 PM | #143 | |
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Obviously, you can't know how much struggle one had to overcome just by looking at them. But, by knowing their race, you can know the relative probability of them encountering those struggles. That's what statistics are about. Probabilities and causal factors, not 1:1 determinism. |
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10-13-2015, 10:57 PM | #144 | ||
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When you control for other variables, women are still discriminated against on the basis of sex, which makes them, as a group, disadvantaged vis-à-vis men. Quote:
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10-13-2015, 11:01 PM | #145 |
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10-13-2015, 11:16 PM | #146 |
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did we solve all the problems yet
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10-13-2015, 11:18 PM | #147 | |
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I honestly think Disco King has a better grasp at how to argue with you than I do, but not it certainly isn't a class problem. |
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10-13-2015, 11:18 PM | #148 |
Socialphobic
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Workplaces only have a culture because of the people who work there, who create it. Most workplaces involve workers from disparate origins, so wouldn't the culture be flexible and open to change?
Talking about control variables and statistics makes an analysis of something like a human workplace seem more scientific than it actually is. Especially when there are no reliable sources of information at hand. I would like to see how women are disadvantaged coming straight out of university into professional fields, vis-a-vis men. And how that can be measured and verified. Sure, I'd speak on a panel, pave. I know plenty of others who would, too! Most of them would be proud to talk about their careers in law, medicine, biochemistry, etc. and would probably be embarrassed by the suggestion that they encountered limits based on them being female. Mostly because it would indicate that the person who asked the question might come from a place where people tolerated poor treatment in the workplace and didn't do anything about it, and what that says about that person/place. Mostly that they should be pitied |
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10-13-2015, 11:21 PM | #149 |
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I think it's both. There are not that many bad apples, but society favors their advancement because it awards ruthless behavior. So it's both, but ultimately most people try to do good at a disadvantage to themselves compared to someone who just goes for unlimited power.
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10-13-2015, 11:22 PM | #150 | |
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