|
|
Register | Netphoria's Amazon.com Link | Members List |
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
11-17-2018, 10:09 AM | #1 |
Minion of Satan
Location: up a tree
Posts: 7,521
|
The curse of the first album
Every album that’s come out post machina has essentially been a first and starting over point. Essentially a non stop series of comebacks, without the benefit of building upon the momentum of a project and moving into a strong sophomore effort.
Examples- zwan. Ok debut, but one that was testing waters, with the djali material showing promise for a strong future. Then it’s over. Solo album promo dominated by return of SP. Zeitgeist.. not what people hoped for, but by 2008 it seemed like the band was regaining footing and writing material the had promise for a strong second lp (as Rome burns, 99 floors, newer gossamer, March hare, etc). Then jimmy bails. Enter Byrne era. Arguably teargarden was starting point with Oceania being the more developed piece, then boom after developing that band it’s over. Monuments was an attempt at bc trying to carry the weight of the band on his own. A last gasp effort. And now we have ogilala and shiny (strong in some respects but only as good as it can get based on it being a first shot without time behind it to develop the new group).. with the promise of new material from both solo acoustic and reformed original band. I’m hoping this truly works out and we can see corgan redevelop his skill as a writer through something that is consistent. It’s been proven to work great for him before. |
|
11-17-2018, 11:09 AM | #2 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: Pancakes in my area
Posts: 1,553
|
Insightful analysis. Well thought out reasoning.
|
|
11-17-2018, 01:00 PM | #3 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Posts: 1,612
|
you could make a similar argument for gish/SD as the band almost broke up during recording. then MCIS sees jimmy fired, adore moves forward w/o him, machina was whatever it was. it's never been stable which speaks to the inherent dysfunction of the band
|
|
11-17-2018, 01:01 PM | #4 | |
Just Hook it to My Veins!
Location: N3t4Euh Haus
Posts: 32,753
|
Quote:
For Teargarden, I would say it was initially about breaking the format of LPs and doing this exciting 1 song a month thing. That collapsed and then they came back with Oceania, which although is considered part of TGBK, was another reset. It was kind of pitched as a return to form because it was more rock-oriented (the SD sound) and used standard release format. |
|
|
11-17-2018, 01:05 PM | #5 | |
Just Hook it to My Veins!
Location: N3t4Euh Haus
Posts: 32,753
|
Quote:
Regardless of internal problems between Gish and SD, the music does not communicate those issues. We only know that through the individuals who were there. From MSOTS to TFE to Z to TGBK, etc, every album distinctly sounds like an attempt to build from the bottom up over and over |
|
|
11-17-2018, 01:27 PM | #6 |
Demi-God
Posts: 269
|
This is spot on, and I think part of why Oceania has aged poorly- the album seemed like a step in the right direction at the time, but now just feels like a boring dead end.
I really hope Shiny is the start of a more concentrated approach. |
|
11-17-2018, 01:42 PM | #7 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Posts: 3,720
|
I would suggest the opposite (re: Oceania)
|
|
11-17-2018, 01:47 PM | #8 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Posts: 1,714
|
Funny how some fans try to find excuses and arguments why belly hasnt released a good album in the last 18 years.
Positively billy doesnt like to copy his sound over and over like acdc metallica or pearl jam. He tried sthg new but failed. There s no album that you can really compare to another album. Trying to hope for vol2 is bold cause 1) bc doesnt listen to his fanbase soundwise 2) corgan more or less says how its gonna be done no matter what j. Or j. Or j. Says. 3) he doesnt want to sound like sd or mcis anymore 4) he has a family and won't have 15 hour recording days. 4) he just isnt in his 20s anymore and approaches the world differently( lyrics). I have hoped enuff. I knew after solara that shiny is gonna be another 3 star record with no airplay and no good reviews and no overall good fan reaction. |
|
11-17-2018, 02:59 PM | #9 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Posts: 2,359
|
Curse of the shit album.
|
|
11-17-2018, 06:40 PM | #10 | |
Apocalyptic Poster
Posts: 1,612
|
Quote:
|
|
|
11-17-2018, 07:12 PM | #11 |
Socialphobic
Location: montreal
Posts: 11,677
|
the band has always reinvented themselves.
its' just that in the beginning they didn't chose shitty things to reinvent into |
|
11-17-2018, 08:04 PM | #12 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: I teared Joe Rogan a new one
Posts: 1,427
|
Gish was a first album
|
|
11-17-2018, 08:19 PM | #13 |
Minion of Satan
Location: Travelling between Ukraine and Russia
Posts: 5,357
|
Can't wait for Abba to cruise back from their Swedish Corsica to their first battle in 36 years...
|
|
11-17-2018, 08:27 PM | #14 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: Machina Reissue HQ
Posts: 1,005
|
It doesn't help that every time there is a new album, new lineup, new tour Billy will declare that "This is the strongest I've felt about the Pumpkins since 95'"
Every 2 years it's a revival and he's (allegedly) making the best music since Mellon Collie. |
|
11-17-2018, 08:37 PM | #15 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Location: I teared Joe Rogan a new one
Posts: 1,427
|
And every album is the best album he’s written since the 90’s according to everyone around him
|
|
11-17-2018, 10:00 PM | #16 |
Ownz
Posts: 633
|
I have no reason to believe he's ever dishonest when he says that. He could add "my fans are the most pessimistic theyve ever been, and continue to be moreso with each album."
|
|
11-17-2018, 10:09 PM | #17 |
Banned
Posts: 21,169
|
The magic is gone folks. Time to move on.
Enjoy the old stuff and discover music from different artists. Expand your horizons. |
|
11-17-2018, 11:19 PM | #18 |
Minion of Satan
Location: up a tree
Posts: 7,521
|
|
|
11-17-2018, 11:59 PM | #19 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Posts: 1,612
|
|
|
11-18-2018, 12:07 AM | #20 |
Minion of Satan
Location: the institute
Posts: 6,421
|
yeah just leave. i'm pretty sick of hearing you repeat the same point over and over.
and i know my horizons are much more expanded than yours. |
|
11-18-2018, 12:27 AM | #21 |
BOTTLEG ILLEGAL
Location: I'm faced with so many changes that I just might change my face
Posts: 32,800
|
|
|
11-18-2018, 12:43 AM | #22 |
Braindead
Location: Ignore List
Posts: 17,229
|
Gish also had cohesive follow ups, which was the OP's main point....
|
|
11-18-2018, 02:59 AM | #23 | |
Minion of Satan
Location: up a tree
Posts: 7,521
|
Quote:
I would have liked to hear a follow up to Mary star. Same with zeitgeist with the lineup they had going (they were sounding great on that late 2008 tour, IMO). It’s been nearly two decade of first runs/new shots. I’m hoping the peace that’s present of this lineup continues and they grow what they’ve started, which imo is strong. So yeah, I think a follow up to this has potential to be something great. And who knows, follow up to ogilala May be pretty good as it seems like he’s traveling down that path too.. which tbh I wish he stuck with his solo stuff after zwan. Those Chicago songs were stellar. |
|
|
11-18-2018, 03:10 AM | #24 |
Minion of Satan
Location: up a tree
Posts: 7,521
|
Also, about gish, great album but not the strongest of the 1991-2000 era. You could tell they were discovering their sound and getting their footing into the bigger picture. 2 years later, with pressure on, bam, Siamese dream and SP has a fully realized sound. Two years after that, after 6 years of non stop touring, SP can now write play and record whatever they want. Mellon collie is not an album made by a band in its first year. Some argue SD is better but you can’t deny SP we’re on top of their game/at their peak during MCIS.
Which obviously that’ll likely never happen again, but point being I’d like to see what corgan is capable of when he’s got something consistent to work with. |
|
11-18-2018, 03:56 AM | #25 |
Just Hook it to My Veins!
Location: Donald Trump of Netphoria
Posts: 37,218
|
WERE
|
|
11-18-2018, 10:29 PM | #26 |
Socialphobic
Location: Your god damn living room
Posts: 10,000
|
honestly, the only album of theirs i'd say wasn't really a "restart" was Mellon Collie
Siamese could kind of be argued both ways but really it sounds like more of a "back to the drawing board" kind of album than a natural follow-up to Gish |
|
11-19-2018, 05:37 AM | #27 | |
Apocalyptic Poster
Posts: 2,142
|
Quote:
With SD, it's like they said, "right, now look what we can do". Gish and SD songwriting and singing are very similar. For me they are Part 1 and Part 2. MCIS however was them saying "right, we've shown you what we can do. Now we're gonna just go completely OTT". In their case it worked. |
|
|
11-19-2018, 06:43 AM | #28 |
Pledge
Posts: 225
|
This is a solid analysis.
And you *can* hear it start to happen with Teargarden into Oceania - musically Oceania develops a lot of the ideas BC was throwing around in the Teargarden tracks: vintage synths, really melodic bass lines etc. I would have been interested in where that band went next, because synths aside Monuments is a different band. |
|
11-19-2018, 07:10 AM | #29 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Posts: 2,142
|
If TGBK had been a solo album, with the same musicians, it would've been fine. It actually would've been a lot freer for him as well, he could do what he wanted.
Song for a Son would've been a great way to launch a solo album - something unexpected, with a great guitar solo. It didn't need to fit into the Pumpkins ethos (which it doesn't). Only thing is, no one would've cared really. Oceania feels like a band, but it could've been a solo album. MtaE shouldn't have been made really. He should've just been solo since the end of the Zeitgeist era. MSOTS - Zwan TFE - Billy Zeitgeist - Pumpkins TG - Billy Oceania - Billy & Friends MtaE - in the can Ogilala - Billy Shiny - Pumpkins |
|
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Now that over 3 years have passed since tKoL, how do you rank Radiohead's discography | Banana | Music Board Archive | 250 | 11-03-2014 01:41 AM |
Dead space question | Toby | General Chat Archive | 12 | 06-22-2012 02:43 PM |
Shows: 2011/11/15-16 - Brixton Academy; London, UK | Andy / | Pumpkins Archive | 6 | 03-16-2012 03:43 PM |
Quick question | lucid_interval | Pumpkins Archive | 12 | 09-30-2011 12:25 AM |
Milli Vanilli movie being developed at Universal... | The Pashing Smumpkin | General Chat Archive | 5 | 02-15-2007 08:11 PM |