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View Poll Results: who missed sh sh shayne
I did! 4 50.00%
Who?? 2 25.00%
Fuck him 2 25.00%
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Old 02-13-2008, 12:33 AM   #1
sh sh shayne
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Well?

 
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Old 02-13-2008, 12:37 AM   #2
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so do you want endless text posted in here or a disgusting picture

 
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Old 02-13-2008, 12:38 AM   #3
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a mix of both with a few lemon parties please.

 
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Old 02-13-2008, 12:40 AM   #4
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lets do this

 
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Old 02-13-2008, 12:42 AM   #5
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Old 02-13-2008, 12:43 AM   #6
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Fancy yourself as an agony aunt? Add your answer to this question!

A male reader, anonymous, writes (26 March 2007):

Look around at all the unhappy single parents that followed there friend's and or family's jelous advice (Or so called inner voice to leave and break-up a home). Worse yet, becuase at some point they were bored or "Unhappy." Even larger, look at all the parentless children that are growing up without a stable home and effective child developement skills (And what does this lead to: in boys; in girls?).

Besides obvious deal-breakers such as abuse, infidelity, or other moral boundaries you may have both set, It is a sad excuse and and all too common cop-out to live the ol' cliche that life is short-blah, blah, blah, and make yourself happy at the expense and consequense of immature selfish behavior.

Please note: I'm for the betterment of society (And not against the constitutional right to pursue freedom and happiness-which is sadly mis-interpreted and used in a self serving way) and that includes the core issue: COMMITMENT is just that, period no varying levels or open to different interpretations, nor meeting different emotional needs.

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A female reader, Irish49 Canada + ♥, writes (19 December 2006):

Irish49 agony auntThank you for the comment on admiring my beliefs, dear. No one is trying to impose their beliefs on you. You have a brain-you 'can' think for yourself, can't you? You can make your own choices on what you want to believe. You asked a question, I simply voiced an opinion..it's your free choice to take it or leave it. But for you to be so defensive about the advice given..I have to wonder, was a nerve hit somewhere deep inside your moral core. Did I sound lto much like Mom and Dad? Or is it because I didn't validate and your decision to bail on this marriage and simply go blow up lives because 'you' aren't happy?. No I merely pointed out tha marriage is not a game, dear where and when one feels like they have this inalienable right to happiness-they can just walk out the door. I feel what happened with you is that you found out that being married is not the fantasy experience you imagined. With committment, maturity and communication people learn to make the best of life's challenges, difficulties and disappointments. Without maturity, committment and communication, people look for ways, simply to feel better rather than trying to make things better. So no matter how you spin it, sweety...what you are proposing to do is very self-serving, wrong and doesn't solve your own, inner true problem. Because all you are thinking of here..is YOU and no one else. You don't have to agree..that's just the way I see it. Take care and I hope you find that happiness you seek, dear.

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A female reader, anonymous, writes (19 December 2006):

To Frank and Irish49: I admire your morals and strong beliefs, but I think it's wrong to try to impose them on someone else. Divorce is not just for cases of violence, drug abuse or infidelity. It's sad but sometimes marriage doesn't work. I don't think you should stick to it as if it were doom or a penitence. You meant those vows when you said them but things change, feelings change.

My advice to you: If you want to stick to your marriage, do. If you don't, then leave. You have the right to pursue happiness.

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A male reader, Frank B Kermit Canada +, writes (19 December 2006):

Frank B Kermit agony auntIrish49 wrote very eliquintly what I was trying to communicate. Please listen to her.

-FBK

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A female reader, Irish49 Canada + ♥, writes (18 December 2006):

Irish49 agony auntFrank gives you excellent, insightful advice I agree with him, totally. I just want to add a few comments of my own. Abuse, addictions and adultry are 3 huge reasons to leave a marriage. From what you have posted, you are not experiencing any of this. Dear, I can completely understand why your parents feel upset. Marriage is negotiation, it's respect, it's tolerance, it's understanding, it's unselfishness (it's not "I want, I need, what about poor me) and it's compromise. If your parents are 'old marrieds' they have learned through hard times/happy times /sad times and through wisdom/age, that once the 'honeymoon is over" -this is the time that real life comes into focus and this is where the the mettle and true committment of the spouses come into play. This is where 'marriage' get's underway. Most long married couples will agree it really, really is a life-long process. Too many people get married and 'play house' without a clear understanding of the type of serious committment they are undertaking. They forget about the values of hard work, patience and strength that is needed to keep a marriage intact. And when tough times hit..they forget to unify and put forth big efforts. They think, I'm not happy..'so what about me?' I think you need to try to look at this man that you married, with compassion and a more giving heart. You might find something incredibly lovable, something solid and decent about him. Don't allow your feelings of 'regret and unhappiness' undermine the solidarity, intimacy and cooperative work needed by a husband and wife to sustain a healthy marriage and a family life. You have a daughter and her future emotional well-being and happiness is in your hands. Please think of her. I think are going to need to negotiate a place of comfort for yourself with respect to your marriage. Get into counseling and learn to appreciate what you have 'right under your nose'.

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A female reader, anonymous, writes (18 December 2006):

You sound like you want out. You're only going to get one life, you should live it fully. You probably made a mistake marrying so young and to someone you don't really love, but what's the point of beating yourself up for that? Your parents want the best for you, but their idea of what's best it's not neccesarily what really is best for you.

Staying together for the children is not necessarily the best for the children either. If you don't really want to be with him, then don't be with him. You're both going to waste your life and youth. And children are very perceptive, growing up feeling how bitter you feel and the lack of love between her parents is not going to make her happy. I believe you'll make better parents if you split amicably while you still feel some respect for each other.

You're very young, you deserve to find true love, and your husband deserves a chance to find someone that truly loves him as well.

Search your heart: if he's the one you want, go back to him. If he's not, then leave him but keep in mind that he's still your daughter's daddy.

Best of luck honey.

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A male reader, Frank B Kermit Canada +, writes (18 December 2006):

Frank B Kermit agony auntHi There,

You have a child together, so yes, I do think you need to work it out...marriage is not just about love. It is about building a life together too...but I think it was unfair what you did, by hooking up with someone that you did not really care about. Talk to your husband...see if there are ways to create the spark and magic.

He sounds like a nice guy, that you are just not attracted too...but attraction can happen if he addresses your emotional needs. Try exploring that together.

You wear a wedding ring right? What were those vows you made at the time? Did they mean anything to you?

If you did not have a child with him, or if there was abuse in the relationship, then leave, so he can find someone better for him, that will appreciate him more than you could. Otherwise, make the effort to work it out. Not for your parents, but for the family (you, him and your daughter) that you committed too.

-Frank B Kermit

 
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Old 02-13-2008, 12:44 AM   #7
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Old 02-13-2008, 12:47 AM   #8
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most likely the greatest thing i've ever seen thank you sir
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Old 02-13-2008, 12:47 AM   #9
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fluffer
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Left my husband today...
Well I finally did it. I woke up this morning totally freaked out and walked out with not much more than the clothes I stand up in. I can replace things, self respect and sanity that's another thing. To be honest I'm not that upset. More upset about the past 5 years of my life wasted on a looser.

We had a massive row 2 weeks ago and it all came out that he knew about the escorting all along. So basically he was happy to live of me like that. It's taken me 2 weeks to let it sink in and work out what I was going to do. I didn't plan to run out without anything, but sometimes you just snap and you can't stand another moment in the situation.

I'm staying with a friend, who's lent me some money(he's taken my bank card) and my sister's sorted me a job out in Jersey for the summer so I can get some money together.
I'm just going to see how it goes. I just know I don't want to be with him any more.
He's sent me texts calling me every name under the sun, but I know however stupid I am, I'm not like him, and I wouldn't put some one else in a **** situation and then blame them for bailing me out.
I hope everything's going to work out ok, I'v got a feeling it will. I'll keep you posted..xxxxxxx
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Old 22nd April 2007, 01:31 AM #2
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Re: Left my husband today...
Well done.

The fact he is still abusing you shows his disregard for you. Don't let him know where you are. He sounds like he might be revengeful.

Try to get some counselling for the emotional damage he had done to you.

Sally
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Old 22nd April 2007, 01:45 AM #3
Bishek
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Re: Left my husband today...
To tell You the truth, I find quite lots of man to be suffering from schizofrenia

Read this for an example;

THE BALLAD OF THE FISTFUL MAN

Dear Christ! The grassy filed fields
Suddenly reminded me the story
When the man in his age and his oaths
Told me the below story.

When he was young, he searched for new
The things the young desire
The freedom, the worth, the gold and the hay
So much for the young to desire!

When he grew up and when he has
Begot a little wisdom
He found that it’s not enough
To catchy fulfil his freedom.

He then have looked for things on offer
The Pretty girls, the fancy goods, the drink
He also he looked at the other things,
The bad and the offal.

And then he found and it wasn’t soon
Digesting, the things he has searched for
That it wasn’t the golden coin
And the thing a worth to purse for

Although his soul was still afraid
That will lose a much of freedom
The man decided that was just a time
To do what the man is made for.

(To settle down, to be discrete, to be a faithful body)

This story will be not as long
Not as half as the famous Gaol story
And will finish with the sentence below
To full reader’s understanding glory:

Not all the sins and all manly faults
Has to be prejudged or prettify
To understand that a every man
Is a very strange unpredictable assemble.
(as opposite to woman, ha,ha).

4I.21.04.07.PR
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Old 22nd April 2007, 10:22 AM #4
Dru2000D
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Posts: 134

Re: Left my husband today...
Bishek,

This guy hasn't got schizophrenia, he's just an arsehole.

He should have realised how crap the situation was and got a job so that you didn't have to do escorting to put food on the table.

Good riddance to this loser.
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Old 23rd April 2007, 12:17 AM #5
fluffer
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Re: Left my husband today...
Thanks everyone,
Yes I know I shouldn't have put myself in the whole escorting situation, but I did have a job in the first place, and then I lost it and he spent my money at such a rate I was left with that or the streets. I got out of this situation myself, and I'v had a good job in an office for the past year, I'm not lazy I work realy hard.
At the time he had a a massive problem with smokeing weed and I was stuck with paying for it. I'm just a stupid woman for falling in love so hard, and thinking I could fix other peoples problems.
I feel so much better for getting out. Really like my life is going somewere again, and a fog has lifted from my eyes. I'm off to start a new life and do my own thing, I know I can be strong for myself, and if I can live through somthing like this then probably I can do anything. Thanks Sally for your support, really means alot. Don't worry he dosen't know were I am, think he could be a bit vengefull, but he's just going to have to let that eat him away. I don't care I leave this with my heart clean, and that's the most important thing. Big love Kirsty..xx
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Old 02-13-2008, 12:47 AM   #10
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I've left my husband and kids

Dear Anne

I'm 35 and have been married for 12 years. I have three children aged 14,10 and 6. Ours isn't a happy marriage as we didn't want the same things in life. Four months ago I started a full-time job, my first real job in years. There I met a wonderful guy who's 29. Two months ago we started an affair but my husband found out and told me either to stay with him or leave. He then packed my bags three weeks ago when I said there was no way I could give up this guy. I moved in with my lover and we've been together ever since. At first things with my husband were awful, arguing, emotional blackmail and so on. I told my kids, making it clear I wasn't leaving them, just their dad. I've seen them nearly every day since we broke up. My oldest was extremely angry at first but they all seem quite OK with the situation now. I'm extremely happy with my current partner, as is he. I've never before felt the feelings I have with him. Don't get me wrong. It's been tough and we've been through a lot, as have my kids, but things seem to be working out now. I've never been in this situation before. I'd always been faithful through all of my marriage. I know I'm doing the right thing. I just wondered if I could get some advice from an outsider? Thank you. Pipa

Dear Pipa

I wonder what kind of advice you're looking for? You're the one who's living your life and you have already made your own choices. You're the one who will have to live with the consequences of your actions. You're making sure you stay in touch with your kids, which is absolutely vital for their wellbeing, although it's understandable that they'd be upset and very angry with you. They're bound to have some mixed feelings since they love you and their dad, and they're likely to be swayed one way or another at times because on some level they're aware they're a part of each of you and are bound to feel their loyalties pulled in different directions.

I accept that your marriage hadn't been happy for a long time. One thing in favour of the split is that staying together for the sake of the children places an intolerable burden on them since they'd then feel responsible for every row or every bad atmosphere between you and your husband. However, you and your new guy haven't known each other that long. While you may feel great passion right now what with everything being all new and shiny, you don't know each other that well. It's understandable that your husband was argumentative and manipulative at the time of the split. If he'd been like that before, what kinds of response did you show? I hope you'll use all your feelings in this new relationship including mutual respect so you carry on the communication and don't let things drift away from you and your new guy.

You and your ex may choose to arrange your divorce through a mediator, a solicitor who's trained in helping families in difficult positions resolve things with the minimum of hostility and cost. You can find one via www.sfla.org.uk, the website of Resolution, formerly the Solicitors Family Law Association. It's important that you don't criticise their dad to your children, and hopefully he won't smear your name in their eyes either. At handovers, if there's likely to be arguing, you might decide to drop the children off at the end of the path and just wait to see them safe inside. If you and your ex can maintain some semblance of amicability, so much the better.

Children deserve shared, responsible co-parenting. You and your new man might decide to work through Wonderful Ways to be a Step-parent by Judy Ford and Anna Chase because your new feller will be their stepdad, won't he, and that's often a very challenging relationship. You and he will need to work out a common approach to parenting and discipline.

As for any moral, ethical or religious questions, there are plenty of people who will judge you, probably mostly from his side of the family, and there are plenty of others who will be glad you and your new guy have found happiness. So long as you keep the children at the heart of all your decisions you'll be making the best of things. I wish your ex a speedy recovery and all the best to all of your family.

 
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Old 02-13-2008, 12:48 AM   #11
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http://sbcb.bioch.ox.ac.uk/oliver/Pr...ritz_start.jpg

 
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Old 02-13-2008, 12:51 AM   #12
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you know this thread made me laugh because i was like "Who the fuck is sh sh shane" and i found that he's already on my ignore list

 
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Old 02-13-2008, 12:51 AM   #13
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Old 02-13-2008, 12:52 AM   #14
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there's no point in going on any more.

 
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Old 02-13-2008, 12:52 AM   #15
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How do I get my husband back?
by Ellen Kreidman, Ph.D

Dear Dr. Ellen: I need your help. It has been three months since my husband has left me. I was shocked and devastated when he left. The morning before he left we talked about, and both cried about throwing away 8 years of being together. There was a lot of abuse in his home growing up, sexual and emotional. My home life was also less than perfect, I suffered from sexual abuse as a child. Our home lives affected both our communication skills. We started having problems a little time after our little girl was born two years ago. He has admitted being jealous of her, about how much time I spent with her. I admit my admiration of him and affection towards him diminished, all my focus was on our child. Our sex life diminished. I had an eating disorder which also put stress on our marriage. I have overcome this now with the help of counseling but I can see the pressure and strain I placed on the marriage. He would resent the amount of time I would spend with my family, he felt like I wanted to be with them more than him. Yet he would work 6 days a week and on the seventh his cell phone would constantly be ringing. This past Christmas my husband met another woman and decided to leave me saying we had no chance of reconciliation. Saying he loved me but wasn't in love with me. It came as a shock because a week before he left, we were discussing things which impacted on our futures, ie. buying another house etc... At first he denied there being another woman. After finding out from a friend that there was, I confronted him with the information then he admitted it. He says that it is not serious and probably never will be. The people he associates with are mainly single & use drugs frequently. At the moment I am so confused, he often reminds me of the Jeckyl and Hyde story. One moment he is kind, sweet then another time he will be accusing, making harsh statements that hurt me. He does come over to visit and now he stays longer, he has even said that he stays longer because he finds it hard to leave. I notice he looks at me while he thinks I'm not looking. It sends me into confusion not knowing whether he is playing with my emotions or being pulled back to the family he left behind. I feel like some days we get closer, we seem to be on the right track but then he diverts back to his reasons for leaving me, speaking about how people never change, that in a few years we would be back at the same point. I often wonder what things are being mentioned in his ear when he is with her. How she must be dreading the thought of him leaving her to come back to his family. I am so unsure what to do. We are both seeing lawyers, the house is on the market. I feel like we're both on scales that could tip either way. I love him so very much, I want to grow old with this man. Thank you so much - Christine

Advice: Dear Christine: The only thing you can do, now that you are not living together, is to make the time count when he comes over to visit. Act happy, independent and busy with your life. Act like someone who he'd want to have an affair with. Do not be depressed and needy. I don't care if your heart is breaking, don't let him see that side anymore. When he says it's time to leave, say, "Okay, thanks for coming by", and seem anxious for him to leave or better yet, the next time, you make it a point to cut the visit short because you have plans. The point is that your behavior has been so predictable and I'd like you to be UNPREDICTIBLE. Then he'll start to wonder what's going on. Maybe you've met someone? Have an air of mystery to you. The more time he spends with you, the more angry the other woman will get and he'll get tired of her moods. You have to act like the other woman. Compliment him, talk to him, treasure the little time you have together and make it count, then sweetly kiss him goodbye. No accusations, no making him feel guilty, and no pathetic, or sad behavior. The more fun you are to be with, and a pleasure to talk to, the less time he'll want to spend with the other woman. It make take some time, but you can do this!

 
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Old 02-13-2008, 12:55 AM   #16
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Old 02-13-2008, 12:56 AM   #17
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Left my husband of 18 yrs gave him everything cause I felt gulity and took the kids with me then got divorce 3yrs on found out he was having an affair and now I know I lost everything and feel a fool?




Answer

Don't beat yourself up over this. You wouldn't have left him unless you had good reason and you must have been somewhat suspicious he may be having an affair. You simply had enough as I am sure you were neglected and it was an unemotional marriage between the both of you. Children sense this so leaving him was a good idea. That was something you did do right.

I suggest you retain a lawyer and see what you can get out of him even though you left the children. Hopefully you will get support from him or certainly Child Support.

I knew my first husband was cheating, but since he had such a rotten childhood I made excuses for his behavior and stuck it out for 3 1/2 years and later when I caught him cheating I felt the fool too. Not for long! I took my marriage vows seriously, but, I don't feel man nor woman should stay in a loveless marriage of be abused mentally or physically. It is also hard on any children one might have. I didn't have children so I just up and left, got my own apartment, a new job, new friends and filed for divorce immediately. I was lonely for awhile, but that soon disappeared and I began to realize my strengths and weakness'. I learned from the experience. I didn't feel foolish any longer and neither should you.

Fight! Go to that lawyer and see what can be done. If you can prove abuse of any sort towards you or proof he was cheating you have a good case. It's highly unlikely you his defence will nail you with desertion because you can swing back and say because of the circumstances and the safety of the children you left. You need money to live and you need a place to live and obviously you will have to work and if your children are young Child Care does not come cheap.

Good luck!

 
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Old 02-13-2008, 12:57 AM   #18
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givenup

Posted 12-01-2007 05:56 PM
It took me several years but
I recently ended the relationship with my bp husband. I tolerated a lot of abuse for many many years because I really thought I could help him. Just last year I found out he was bp which explains alot of his behavioral patterns. Because I was with him so long I realized that there was a cycle he was on and I could tell you the months out of the year he was manic and the ones where he was severely depressed. After receiving a diagnosis from pcm he went to psychiatrist once and didn't want to follow up with any of her suggestions or be tested although he displayed all the symptoms. I had to end the relationship because it really was awful. When I first ended it he was harassing me and then threatening me. Over the last few days I haven't heard from him. Does that mean that he finally accepts that things are over? I'm planning on getting a divorce when he is not manic, which if my memory serves me right should be around January or February. Why do some people with bp choose to abuse people they claim to love rather than go to therapy and take meds? How is it that people with this condition can shift back and forth between wonderful to being awful in a matter of months. Why is it when you tell them that you are fed up with the abuse and that you never want to hear from them again that they cry and act like they can't understand why you feel the way you do?

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isitmyfault?

Posted 12-07-2007 09:22 AM Hide Post
Because they can't understand it. Not they don't want to or don't care, but because they can't.

It seems like you don't have kids.

stick to your guns, but if you want to do this, don't put it off. There are always reasons to delay. don't let him dictate to you. You be in charge of your life.

God Bless.

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Ignored post by isitmyfault? posted 12-07-2007 09:22 AM Show Post
DR

Posted 12-07-2007 09:50 AM Hide Post
That, and also, they are master manipulators. I have read that all the time you are thinking of them, they are thinking of them also. They seem to have little concern or regard for others feelings, only for their own. So, when you have finally had enough and throw them out, they aren't thinking about what they did to cause it, they are thinking about how they can get back to their comfortable situation with someone to take care of them and so on. That's my feeling anyway having been married to a BP for 15 years. I have been separated for two years, he does the same thing. If he has a girlfriend, everything's OK. If he doesn't he is crying, wanting to get back with me, but hasn't once asked what he can do to change things so that I would want to get back with him.


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Old 02-13-2008, 12:57 AM   #19
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I'm a Teenage Satanist and I'm Not Evil! PDF Print E-mail
Written by Sue Bohlin

"I'm a Teenage Satanist and I'm Not Evil!"

I do not wish to sound rude but, I could not help but tell you my views on an article I recently read. The article pertaining to Satanists quite angered me. In it you state that most of Satanists are teenagers, and yes all I know are teens but, you relate that we all have low self-worth, are unable to distinguish between right and wrong, have problems at home or with our peers, use drugs, and are sexually promiscuos.

I find it wrong to stereotype people in any way! I have a very high self-worth, and I love who I am! I'm happy with my lifestyle, I have tons of friends and my family loves me! I'm not abused in anyway and even preps talk to me in the hallways (without vulgar language and angry comments). I don't practice sex people! I'm a virgin and proud of it!!! My parents are Catholic and yet they accept me for me and understand my personality and beliefs. I hate to say this but I believe it is the religions of today that are wrong. Christians are, most of all. They take things they don't understand or that aren't from their religion and automatically link them to Satan.

It is these fanatics whom are making me seem evil! I'm not!!! I also am greatly revolted by the way it referred to metal bands!!! In society today, I believe that rap has more of an effect on people! These rappers are getting killed in gang related events, getting time in jail and promoting sex, drugs and naked women in their videos and no one says anything! But, Slipknot puts out a CD with a goat's head on it and suddenly they get labeled as Satanists!!! I feel that my music is fine the way it is; evil, maybe; but it reflects me.

Furthermore, in the article it states that Satanism is "the worship of satan," another misconception! We do not all worship Satan as an entity. It is merely of oneself and most often does not involve Satan. Please! We only want to be left alone to our beliefs. I mean, isn't it required in the constitution of the United States?

 
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Old 02-13-2008, 12:57 AM   #20
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Old 02-13-2008, 12:58 AM   #21
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In this essay we'll be looking at some of the homosexual myths that have pervaded our culture, and hopefully answering their arguments. Much of this material is taken from Joe Dallas' excellent book, A Strong Delusion: Confronting the "Gay Christian" Movement.(1) While the information in this essay may prove helpful, it is our prayer that you will be able to share it calmly and compassionately, remembering that homosexuality isn't just a political and moral issue; it is also about people who are badly hurting.
10% of the Population Is Homosexual.

In 1948, Dr. Alfred Kinsey released a study called Sexual Behavior in the Human Male, claiming that between 10 and 47% of the male population was homosexual.(2) He got his figures from a pool of 5,300 male subject that he represented as your average "Joe College" student. Many of the men who gave him the data, though, actually consisted of sex offenders, prisoners, pimps, hold-up men, thieves, male prostitutes and other criminals, and hundreds of gay activists.(3) The 10% figure was widely circulated by Harry Hay, the father of the homosexual "civil rights" movement, urging that homosexuality be seen no longer as an act of sodomy but as a 10% minority class.(4)

Kinsey's figures were exposed as completely false immediately afterwards, and by many other scientists since. The actual figure is closer to 2-3%.(5) But the 10% number has been so often reported in the press that most people think it's valid. It's not.
People Are Born Gay.

Ann Landers said it, and millions of people believe it. The problem is, the data's not there to support it. There are three ways to test for inborn traits: twin studies, brain dissections, and gene "linkage" studies.(6) Twin studies show that something other than genetics must account for homosexuality, because nearly half of the identical twin studied didn't have the same sexual preference. If homosexuality were inherited, identical twins should either be both straight or both gay. Besides, none of the twin studies have been replicated, and other twin studies have produced completely different results.(7) Dr. Simon LeVay's famous study on the brains of dead subjects yielded questionable results regarding its accuracy. He wasn't sure of the sexual orientation of the people in the study, and Dr. LeVay even admits he doesn't know if the changes in the brain structures were the cause *of* homosexuality, or caused *by* homosexuality.(8) Finally, an early study attempting to show a link between homosexuality and the X- chromosome has yet to be replicated, and a second study actually contradicted the findings of the first.(9) Even if homosexuality were someday proven to be genetically related, *inborn* does not necessarily mean *normal*. Some children are born with cystic fibrosis, but that doesn't make it a normal condition.

Inborn tendencies toward certain behaviors (such as homosexuality) do not make those behaviors moral. Tendencies toward alcoholism, obesity, and violence are now thought to be genetically influenced, but they are not good behaviors. People born with tendencies toward these behaviors have to fight hard against their natural temptations to drunkenness, gluttony, and physical rage.

And since we are born as sinners into a fallen world, we have to deal with the consequences of the Fall. Just because we're born with something doesn't mean it's normal. It's not true that "God makes some people gay." All of us have effects of the Fall we need to deal with.
What's Wrong with Two Loving, Committed Men or Women Being Legally Married?

There are two aspects to marriage: the legal and the spiritual. Marriage is more than a social convention, like being "best friends" with somebody, because heterosexual marriage usually results in the production of children. Marriage is a legal institution in order to offer protection for women and children. Women need to have the freedom to devote their time and energies to be the primary nurturers and caretakers of children without being forced to be breadwinners as well. God's plan is that children grow up in families who provide for them, protect them, and wrap them in security.

Because gay or lesbian couples are by nature unable to reproduce, they do not need the legal protection of marriage to provide a safe place for the production and raising of children. Apart from the sexual aspect of a gay relationship, what they have is really "best friend" status, and that does not require legal protection.

Of course, a growing number of gay couples are seeking to have a child together, either by adoption, artificial insemination, or surrogate mothering. Despite the fact that they have to resort to an outside procedure in order to become parents, the presence of adults plus children in an ad hoc household should not automatically secure official recognition of their relationship as a family. There is a movement in our culture which seeks to redefine "family" any way we want, but with a profound lack of discernment about the long-term effects on the people involved. Gay parents are making a dangerous statement to their children: lesbian mothers are saying that fathers are not important, and homosexual fathers are saying that mothers are not important. More and more social observers see the importance of both fathers and mothers in children's lives; one of their roles is to teach boys what it means to be a boy and teach girls what it means to be a girl.

The other aspect of marriage is of a spiritual nature. Granted, this response to the gay marriage argument won't make any difference to people who are unconcerned about spiritual things, but there are a lot of gays who care very deeply about God and long for a relationship with Him. The marriage relationship, both its emotional and especially its sexual components, is designed to serve as an earthbound illustration of the relationship between Christ and His bride, the church.(10) Just as there is a mystical oneness between a man and a woman, who are very different from each other, so there is a mystical unity between two very different, very "other" beings--the eternal Son of God and us mortal, creaturely humans. Marriage as God designed it is like the almost improbable union of butterfly and buffalo, or fire and water. But homosexual relationships are the coming together of two like individuals; the dynamic of unity and diversity in heterosexual marriage is completely missing, and therefore so is the spiritual dimension that is so intrinsic to the purpose of marriage. Both on an emotional and a physical level, the sameness of male and male, or female and female, demonstrates that homosexual relationships do not reflect the spiritual parable that marriage is meant to be. God wants marriage partners to complement, not to mirror, each other. The concept of gay marriage doesn't work, whether we look at it on a social level or a spiritual one.
Jesus Said Nothing about Homosexuality.

Whether from a pulpit or at a gay rights event, gay activists like to point out that Jesus never addressed the issue of homosexuality; instead, He was more interested in love. Their point is that if Jesus didn't specifically forbid a behavior, then who are we to judge those who engage in it?

This argument assumes that the Gospels are more important than the rest of the books in the New Testament, that only the recorded sayings of Jesus matter. But John's gospel itself assures us that it is not an exhaustive record of all that Jesus said and did, which means there was a lot left out!(11) The gospels don't record that Jesus condemned wife-beating or incest; does that make them OK? Furthermore, the remaining books of the New Testament are no less authoritative than the gospels. All scripture is inspired by God, not just the books with red letters in the text. Specific prohibitions against homosexual behavior in Romans 1:26-27 and 1 Corinthians 6:9,10 are every bit as God-ordained as what is recorded in the gospels.

We do know, however, that Jesus spoke in specific terms about God's created intent for human sexuality: "From the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; and the two shall be one flesh. . . What therefore God has joined together, let not man put asunder" (Matt. 19:4-6). God's plan is holy heterosexuality, and Jesus spelled it out.
The Levitical laws against homosexual behavior are not valid today.

Leviticus 18:22 says, "Thou shalt not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; it is an abomination." Gay theologians argue that the term "abomination" is generally associated with idolatry and the Canaanite religious practice of cult prostitution, and thus God did not prohibit the kind of homosexuality we see today.

Other sexual sins such as adultery and incest are also prohibited in the same chapters where the prohibitions against homosexuality are found. All sexual sin is forbidden by both Old and New Testament, completely apart from the Levitical codes, because it is a moral issue. It is true that we are not bound by the rules and rituals in Leviticus that marked Yahweh's people by their separation from the world; however, the nature of sexual sin has not changed because immorality is an affront to the holiness and purity of God Himself. Just because most of Leviticus doesn't apply to Christians today doesn't mean none of it does.

The argument that the word "abomination" is connected with idolatry is well answered by examining Proverbs 6:16-19, which describes what else the Lord considers abominations: a proud look, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises evil imaginations, feet that are swift in running to mischief, a false witness that speaks lies, and a man who sows discord among brothers. Idolatry plays no part in these abominations. The argument doesn't hold water.

If the practices in Leviticus 18 and 20 are condemned because of their association with idolatry, then it logically follows that they would be permissible if they were committed apart from idolatry. That would mean incest, adultery, bestiality, and child sacrifice (all of which are listed in these chapters) are only condemned when associated with idolatry; otherwise, they are allowable. No responsible reader of these passages would agree with such a premise.(12)
Calling Homosexuality a Sin Is Judging, and Judging Is a Sin.

Josh McDowell says that the most often-quoted Bible verse used to be John 3:16, but now that tolerance has become the ultimate virtue, the verse we hear quoted the most is "Judge not, lest ye be judged." (Matt. 7:1) The person who calls homosexual activity wrong is called a bigot and a homophobe, and even those who don't believe in the Bible can be heard to quote the "Judge not" verse.

When Jesus said "Do not judge, or you too will be judged," the context makes it plain that He was talking about setting ourselves up as judge of another person, while blind to our own sinfulness as we point out another's sin. There's no doubt about it, there is a grievous amount of self-righteousness in the way the church treats those struggling with the temptations of homosexual longings. But there is a difference between agreeing with the standard of Scripture when it declares homosexuality wrong, and personally condemning an individual because of his sin. Agreeing with God about something isn't necessarily judging.

Imagine I'm speeding down the highway, and I get pulled over by a police officer. He approaches my car and, after checking my license and registration, he says, "You broke the speed limit back there, ma'am." Can you imagine a citizen indignantly leveling a politically correct charge at the officer: "Hey, you're judging me! Judge not, lest ye be judged!'" The policeman is simply pointing out that I broke the law. He's not judging my character, he's comparing my behavior to the standard of the law. It's not judging when we restate what God has said about His moral law, either. What is sin is to look down our noses at someone who falls into a different sin than we do. That's judging.
The Romans 1 Passage on Homosexuality Does Not Describe True Homosexuals, but Heterosexuals Who Indulge in Homosexual Behavior That Is Not Natural to Them.

Romans 1:26-27 says, "God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion." Some gay theologians try to get around the clear prohibition against both gay and lesbian homosexuality by explaining that the real sin Paul is talking about here is straight people who indulge in homosexual acts, because it's not natural to them. Homosexuality, they maintain, is not a sin for true homosexuals.

But there is nothing in this passage that suggests a distinction between "true" homosexuals and "false" ones. Paul describes the homosexual behavior itself as unnatural, regardless of who commits it. In fact, he chooses unusual words for men and women, Greek words that most emphasize the biology of being a male and a female. The behavior described in this passage is unnatural for males and females; sexual orientation isn't the issue at all. He is saying that homosexuality is biologically unnatural; not just unnatural to heterosexuals, but unnatural to anyone.

Furthermore, Romans 1 describes men "inflamed with lust" for one another. This would hardly seem to indicate men who were straight by nature but experimenting with gay sex.(13) You really have to do some mental gymnastics to make Romans 1 anything other than what a plain reading leads us to understand all homosexual activity is sin.
Preaching Against Homosexuality Causes Gay Teenagers to Commit Suicide.

I received an e-mail from someone who assured me that the blood of gay teenagers was on my hands because saying that homosexuality is wrong makes people kill themselves. The belief that gay teenagers are at high risk for suicide is largely inspired by a 1989 report by a special federal task force on youth and suicide. This report stated three things; first, that gay and lesbian youths account for one third of all teenage suicides; second, that suicide is the leading cause of death among gay teenagers, and third, gay teens who commit suicide do so because of "internalized homophobia" and violence directed at them.(14) This report has been cited over and over in both gay and mainstream publications.

San Francisco gay activist Paul Gibson wrote this report based on research so shoddy that when it was submitted to Dr. Louis Sullivan, the former Secretary of Health and Human Services, Dr. Sullivan officially distanced himself and his department from it.(15) The report's numbers, both its data and its conclusions, are extremely questionable. Part of the report cites an author claiming that as many as 3,000 gay youths kill themselves each year. But that's over a thousand more than the total number of teen suicides in the first place! Gibson exaggerated his numbers when he said that one third of all teen suicides are committed by gay youth. He got this figure by looking at gay surveys taken at drop- in centers for troubled teens, many of which were gay-oriented, which revealed that gay teens had two to four times the suicidal tendencies of straight kids. Gibson multiplied this higher figure by the disputed Kinsey figure of a 10% homosexual population to produce his figure that 30% of all youth suicides are gay. David Shaffer, a Columbia University psychiatrist who specializes in teen suicides, pored over this study and said, "I struggled for a long time over Gibson's mathematics, but in the end, it seemed more hocus-pocus than math."(15)

The report's conclusions are contradicted by other, more credible reports. Researchers at the University of California-San Diego interviewed the survivors of 283 suicides for a 1986 study. 133 of those who died were under 30, and only 7 percent were gay and they were all over 21. In another study at Columbia University of 107 teenage boy suicides, only three were known to be gay, and two of those died in a suicide pact. When the Gallup organization interviewed almost 700 teenagers who knew a teen who had committed suicide, not one mentioned sexuality as part of the problem. Those who had come close to killing themselves mainly cited boy-girl problems or low self-esteem.(17)

Gibson didn't use a heterosexual control group in his study. Conclusions and statistics are bound to be skewed without a control group. When psychiatrist David Shaffer examined the case histories of the gay teens who committed suicides in Gibson's report, he found the same issues that straight kids wrestle with before suicide: "The stories were the same: a court appearance scheduled for the day of the death; prolonged depression; drug and alcohol problems; etc."(18)

That any teenager experiences so much pain that he takes his life is a tragedy, regardless of the reason. But it's not fair to lay the responsibility for gay suicides, the few that there are, on those who agree with God that it's wrong and harmful behavior.

 
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Old 02-13-2008, 12:59 AM   #22
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Old 02-13-2008, 01:00 AM   #23
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Good to be sh sh shayne. So today i went up thier and for some reason thought fuck go look int he sp vinyl section. Thier i see a gish vinyl for the whooping price of 9.59. I dont' no if virgin ever made a vinyl realase of gish but i saw the caroline on the back and about creamed myself.


So now i own gish on vinyl still in a lamenant*im sure the spelling is horrible*

Good to be sh sh shayne. So today i went up thier and for some reason thought fuck go look int he sp vinyl section. Thier i see a gish vinyl for the whooping price of 9.59. I dont' no if virgin ever made a vinyl realase of gish but i saw the caroline on the back and about creamed myself.


So now i own gish on vinyl still in a lamenant*im sure the spelling is horrible*

Good to be sh sh shayne. So today i went up thier and for some reason thought fuck go look int he sp vinyl section. Thier i see a gish vinyl for the whooping price of 9.59. I dont' no if virgin ever made a vinyl realase of gish but i saw the caroline on the back and about creamed myself.


So now i own gish on vinyl still in a lamenant*im sure the spelling is horrible*

Good to be sh sh shayne. So today i went up thier and for some reason thought fuck go look int he sp vinyl section. Thier i see a gish vinyl for the whooping price of 9.59. I dont' no if virgin ever made a vinyl realase of gish but i saw the caroline on the back and about creamed myself.


So now i own gish on vinyl still in a lamenant*im sure the spelling is horrible*

Good to be sh sh shayne. So today i went up thier and for some reason thought fuck go look int he sp vinyl section. Thier i see a gish vinyl for the whooping price of 9.59. I dont' no if virgin ever made a vinyl realase of gish but i saw the caroline on the back and about creamed myself.


So now i own gish on vinyl still in a lamenant*im sure the spelling is horrible*

Good to be sh sh shayne. So today i went up thier and for some reason thought fuck go look int he sp vinyl section. Thier i see a gish vinyl for the whooping price of 9.59. I dont' no if virgin ever made a vinyl realase of gish but i saw the caroline on the back and about creamed myself.


So now i own gish on vinyl still in a lamenant*im sure the spelling is horrible*

Good to be sh sh shayne. So today i went up thier and for some reason thought fuck go look int he sp vinyl section. Thier i see a gish vinyl for the whooping price of 9.59. I dont' no if virgin ever made a vinyl realase of gish but i saw the caroline on the back and about creamed myself.


So now i own gish on vinyl still in a lamenant*im sure the spelling is horrible*

Good to be sh sh shayne. So today i went up thier and for some reason thought fuck go look int he sp vinyl section. Thier i see a gish vinyl for the whooping price of 9.59. I dont' no if virgin ever made a vinyl realase of gish but i saw the caroline on the back and about creamed myself.


So now i own gish on vinyl still in a lamenant*im sure the spelling is horrible*

Good to be sh sh shayne. So today i went up thier and for some reason thought fuck go look int he sp vinyl section. Thier i see a gish vinyl for the whooping price of 9.59. I dont' no if virgin ever made a vinyl realase of gish but i saw the caroline on the back and about creamed myself.


So now i own gish on vinyl still in a lamenant*im sure the spelling is horrible*

Good to be sh sh shayne. So today i went up thier and for some reason thought fuck go look int he sp vinyl section. Thier i see a gish vinyl for the whooping price of 9.59. I dont' no if virgin ever made a vinyl realase of gish but i saw the caroline on the back and about creamed myself.


So now i own gish on vinyl still in a lamenant*im sure the spelling is horrible*

Good to be sh sh shayne. So today i went up thier and for some reason thought fuck go look int he sp vinyl section. Thier i see a gish vinyl for the whooping price of 9.59. I dont' no if virgin ever made a vinyl realase of gish but i saw the caroline on the back and about creamed myself.


So now i own gish on vinyl still in a lamenant*im sure the spelling is horrible*

Good to be sh sh shayne. So today i went up thier and for some reason thought fuck go look int he sp vinyl section. Thier i see a gish vinyl for the whooping price of 9.59. I dont' no if virgin ever made a vinyl realase of gish but i saw the caroline on the back and about creamed myself.


So now i own gish on vinyl still in a lamenant*im sure the spelling is horrible*

Good to be sh sh shayne. So today i went up thier and for some reason thought fuck go look int he sp vinyl section. Thier i see a gish vinyl for the whooping price of 9.59. I dont' no if virgin ever made a vinyl realase of gish but i saw the caroline on the back and about creamed myself.


So now i own gish on vinyl still in a lamenant*im sure the spelling is horrible*

Good to be sh sh shayne. So today i went up thier and for some reason thought fuck go look int he sp vinyl section. Thier i see a gish vinyl for the whooping price of 9.59. I dont' no if virgin ever made a vinyl realase of gish but i saw the caroline on the back and about creamed myself.


So now i own gish on vinyl still in a lamenant*im sure the spelling is horrible*

Good to be sh sh shayne. So today i went up thier and for some reason thought fuck go look int he sp vinyl section. Thier i see a gish vinyl for the whooping price of 9.59. I dont' no if virgin ever made a vinyl realase of gish but i saw the caroline on the back and about creamed myself.


So now i own gish on vinyl still in a lamenant*im sure the spelling is horrible*

Good to be sh sh shayne. So today i went up thier and for some reason thought fuck go look int he sp vinyl section. Thier i see a gish vinyl for the whooping price of 9.59. I dont' no if virgin ever made a vinyl realase of gish but i saw the caroline on the back and about creamed myself.


So now i own gish on vinyl still in a lamenant*im sure the spelling is horrible*

Good to be sh sh shayne. So today i went up thier and for some reason thought fuck go look int he sp vinyl section. Thier i see a gish vinyl for the whooping price of 9.59. I dont' no if virgin ever made a vinyl realase of gish but i saw the caroline on the back and about creamed myself.


So now i own gish on vinyl still in a lamenant*im sure the spelling is horrible*

Good to be sh sh shayne. So today i went up thier and for some reason thought fuck go look int he sp vinyl section. Thier i see a gish vinyl for the whooping price of 9.59. I dont' no if virgin ever made a vinyl realase of gish but i saw the caroline on the back and about creamed myself.


So now i own gish on vinyl still in a lamenant*im sure the spelling is horrible*

Good to be sh sh shayne. So today i went up thier and for some reason thought fuck go look int he sp vinyl section. Thier i see a gish vinyl for the whooping price of 9.59. I dont' no if virgin ever made a vinyl realase of gish but i saw the caroline on the back and about creamed myself.


So now i own gish on vinyl still in a lamenant*im sure the spelling is horrible*

Good to be sh sh shayne. So today i went up thier and for some reason thought fuck go look int he sp vinyl section. Thier i see a gish vinyl for the whooping price of 9.59. I dont' no if virgin ever made a vinyl realase of gish but i saw the caroline on the back and about creamed myself.


So now i own gish on vinyl still in a lamenant*im sure the spelling is horrible*

Good to be sh sh shayne. So today i went up thier and for some reason thought fuck go look int he sp vinyl section. Thier i see a gish vinyl for the whooping price of 9.59. I dont' no if virgin ever made a vinyl realase of gish but i saw the caroline on the back and about creamed myself.


So now i own gish on vinyl still in a lamenant*im sure the spelling is horrible*

Good to be sh sh shayne. So today i went up thier and for some reason thought fuck go look int he sp vinyl section. Thier i see a gish vinyl for the whooping price of 9.59. I dont' no if virgin ever made a vinyl realase of gish but i saw the caroline on the back and about creamed myself.


So now i own gish on vinyl still in a lamenant*im sure the spelling is horrible*

Good to be sh sh shayne. So today i went up thier and for some reason thought fuck go look int he sp vinyl section. Thier i see a gish vinyl for the whooping price of 9.59. I dont' no if virgin ever made a vinyl realase of gish but i saw the caroline on the back and about creamed myself.


So now i own gish on vinyl still in a lamenant*im sure the spelling is horrible*

Good to be sh sh shayne. So today i went up thier and for some reason thought fuck go look int he sp vinyl section. Thier i see a gish vinyl for the whooping price of 9.59. I dont' no if virgin ever made a vinyl realase of gish but i saw the caroline on the back and about creamed myself.


So now i own gish on vinyl still in a lamenant*im sure the spelling is horrible*

Good to be sh sh shayne. So today i went up thier and for some reason thought fuck go look int he sp vinyl section. Thier i see a gish vinyl for the whooping price of 9.59. I dont' no if virgin ever made a vinyl realase of gish but i saw the caroline on the back and about creamed myself.


So now i own gish on vinyl still in a lamenant*im sure the spelling is horrible*

Good to be sh sh shayne. So today i went up thier and for some reason thought fuck go look int he sp vinyl section. Thier i see a gish vinyl for the whooping price of 9.59. I dont' no if virgin ever made a vinyl realase of gish but i saw the caroline on the back and about creamed myself.


So now i own gish on vinyl still in a lamenant*im sure the spelling is horrible*

Good to be sh sh shayne. So today i went up thier and for some reason thought fuck go look int he sp vinyl section. Thier i see a gish vinyl for the whooping price of 9.59. I dont' no if virgin ever made a vinyl realase of gish but i saw the caroline on the back and about creamed myself.


So now i own gish on vinyl still in a lamenant*im sure the spelling is horrible*

Good to be sh sh shayne. So today i went up thier and for some reason thought fuck go look int he sp vinyl section. Thier i see a gish vinyl for the whooping price of 9.59. I dont' no if virgin ever made a vinyl realase of gish but i saw the caroline on the back and about creamed myself.


So now i own gish on vinyl still in a lamenant*im sure the spelling is horrible*

Good to be sh sh shayne. So today i went up thier and for some reason thought fuck go look int he sp vinyl section. Thier i see a gish vinyl for the whooping price of 9.59. I dont' no if virgin ever made a vinyl realase of gish but i saw the caroline on the back and about creamed myself.


So now i own gish on vinyl still in a lamenant*im sure the spelling is horrible*

Good to be sh sh shayne. So today i went up thier and for some reason thought fuck go look int he sp vinyl section. Thier i see a gish vinyl for the whooping price of 9.59. I dont' no if virgin ever made a vinyl realase of gish but i saw the caroline on the back and about creamed myself.


So now i own gish on vinyl still in a lamenant*im sure the spelling is horrible*

Good to be sh sh shayne. So today i went up thier and for some reason thought fuck go look int he sp vinyl section. Thier i see a gish vinyl for the whooping price of 9.59. I dont' no if virgin ever made a vinyl realase of gish but i saw the caroline on the back and about creamed myself.


So now i own gish on vinyl still in a lamenant*im sure the spelling is horrible*

Good to be sh sh shayne. So today i went up thier and for some reason thought fuck go look int he sp vinyl section. Thier i see a gish vinyl for the whooping price of 9.59. I dont' no if virgin ever made a vinyl realase of gish but i saw the caroline on the back and about creamed myself.


So now i own gish on vinyl still in a lamenant*im sure the spelling is horrible*

Good to be sh sh shayne. So today i went up thier and for some reason thought fuck go look int he sp vinyl section. Thier i see a gish vinyl for the whooping price of 9.59. I dont' no if virgin ever made a vinyl realase of gish but i saw the caroline on the back and about creamed myself.


So now i own gish on vinyl still in a lamenant*im sure the spelling is horrible*

Good to be sh sh shayne. So today i went up thier and for some reason thought fuck go look int he sp vinyl section. Thier i see a gish vinyl for the whooping price of 9.59. I dont' no if virgin ever made a vinyl realase of gish but i saw the caroline on the back and about creamed myself.


So now i own gish on vinyl still in a lamenant*im sure the spelling is horrible*

Good to be sh sh shayne. So today i went up thier and for some reason thought fuck go look int he sp vinyl section. Thier i see a gish vinyl for the whooping price of 9.59. I dont' no if virgin ever made a vinyl realase of gish but i saw the caroline on the back and about creamed myself.


So now i own gish on vinyl still in a lamenant*im sure the spelling is horrible*

Good to be sh sh shayne. So today i went up thier and for some reason thought fuck go look int he sp vinyl section. Thier i see a gish vinyl for the whooping price of 9.59. I dont' no if virgin ever made a vinyl realase of gish but i saw the caroline on the back and about creamed myself.


So now i own gish on vinyl still in a lamenant*im sure the spelling is horrible*

Good to be sh sh shayne. So today i went up thier and for some reason thought fuck go look int he sp vinyl section. Thier i see a gish vinyl for the whooping price of 9.59. I dont' no if virgin ever made a vinyl realase of gish but i saw the caroline on the back and about creamed myself.


So now i own gish on vinyl still in a lamenant*im sure the spelling is horrible*

Good to be sh sh shayne. So today i went up thier and for some reason thought fuck go look int he sp vinyl section. Thier i see a gish vinyl for the whooping price of 9.59. I dont' no if virgin ever made a vinyl realase of gish but i saw the caroline on the back and about creamed myself.


So now i own gish on vinyl still in a lamenant*im sure the spelling is horrible*

Good to be sh sh shayne. So today i went up thier and for some reason thought fuck go look int he sp vinyl section. Thier i see a gish vinyl for the whooping price of 9.59. I dont' no if virgin ever made a vinyl realase of gish but i saw the caroline on the back and about creamed myself.


So now i own gish on vinyl still in a lamenant*im sure the spelling is horrible*

Good to be sh sh shayne. So today i went up thier and for some reason thought fuck go look int he sp vinyl section. Thier i see a gish vinyl for the whooping price of 9.59. I dont' no if virgin ever made a vinyl realase of gish but i saw the caroline on the back and about creamed myself.


So now i own gish on vinyl still in a lamenant*im sure the spelling is horrible*

Good to be sh sh shayne. So today i went up thier and for some reason thought fuck go look int he sp vinyl section. Thier i see a gish vinyl for the whooping price of 9.59. I dont' no if virgin ever made a vinyl realase of gish but i saw the caroline on the back and about creamed myself.


So now i own gish on vinyl still in a lamenant*im sure the spelling is horrible*

Good to be sh sh shayne. So today i went up thier and for some reason thought fuck go look int he sp vinyl section. Thier i see a gish vinyl for the whooping price of 9.59. I dont' no if virgin ever made a vinyl realase of gish but i saw the caroline on the back and about creamed myself.


So now i own gish on vinyl still in a lamenant*im sure the spelling is horrible*

Good to be sh sh shayne. So today i went up thier and for some reason thought fuck go look int he sp vinyl section. Thier i see a gish vinyl for the whooping price of 9.59. I dont' no if virgin ever made a vinyl realase of gish but i saw the caroline on the back and about creamed myself.


So now i own gish on vinyl still in a lamenant*im sure the spelling is horrible*

Good to be sh sh shayne. So today i went up thier and for some reason thought fuck go look int he sp vinyl section. Thier i see a gish vinyl for the whooping price of 9.59. I dont' no if virgin ever made a vinyl realase of gish but i saw the caroline on the back and about creamed myself.


So now i own gish on vinyl still in a lamenant*im sure the spelling is horrible*

Good to be sh sh shayne. So today i went up thier and for some reason thought fuck go look int he sp vinyl section. Thier i see a gish vinyl for the whooping price of 9.59. I dont' no if virgin ever made a vinyl realase of gish but i saw the caroline on the back and about creamed myself.


So now i own gish on vinyl still in a lamenant*im sure the spelling is horrible*

Good to be sh sh shayne. So today i went up thier and for some reason thought fuck go look int he sp vinyl section. Thier i see a gish vinyl for the whooping price of 9.59. I dont' no if virgin ever made a vinyl realase of gish but i saw the caroline on the back and about creamed myself.


So now i own gish on vinyl still in a lamenant*im sure the spelling is horrible*

Good to be sh sh shayne. So today i went up thier and for some reason thought fuck go look int he sp vinyl section. Thier i see a gish vinyl for the whooping price of 9.59. I dont' no if virgin ever made a vinyl realase of gish but i saw the caroline on the back and about creamed myself.


So now i own gish on vinyl still in a lamenant*im sure the spelling is horrible*

Good to be sh sh shayne. So today i went up thier and for some reason thought fuck go look int he sp vinyl section. Thier i see a gish vinyl for the whooping price of 9.59. I dont' no if virgin ever made a vinyl realase of gish but i saw the caroline on the back and about creamed myself.


So now i own gish on vinyl still in a lamenant*im sure the spelling is horrible*

Good to be sh sh shayne. So today i went up thier and for some reason thought fuck go look int he sp vinyl section. Thier i see a gish vinyl for the whooping price of 9.59. I dont' no if virgin ever made a vinyl realase of gish but i saw the caroline on the back and about creamed myself.


So now i own gish on vinyl still in a lamenant*im sure the spelling is horrible*

Good to be sh sh shayne. So today i went up thier and for some reason thought fuck go look int he sp vinyl section. Thier i see a gish vinyl for the whooping price of 9.59. I dont' no if virgin ever made a vinyl realase of gish but i saw the caroline on the back and about creamed myself.


So now i own gish on vinyl still in a lamenant*im sure the spelling is horrible*

Good to be sh sh shayne. So today i went up thier and for some reason thought fuck go look int he sp vinyl section. Thier i see a gish vinyl for the whooping price of 9.59. I dont' no if virgin ever made a vinyl realase of gish but i saw the caroline on the back and about creamed myself.


So now i own gish on vinyl still in a lamenant*im sure the spelling is horrible*

Good to be sh sh shayne. So today i went up thier and for some reason thought fuck go look int he sp vinyl section. Thier i see a gish vinyl for the whooping price of 9.59. I dont' no if virgin ever made a vinyl realase of gish but i saw the caroline on the back and about creamed myself.


So now i own gish on vinyl still in a lamenant*im sure the spelling is horrible*

Good to be sh sh shayne. So today i went up thier and for some reason thought fuck go look int he sp vinyl section. Thier i see a gish vinyl for the whooping price of 9.59. I dont' no if virgin ever made a vinyl realase of gish but i saw the caroline on the back and about creamed myself.


So now i own gish on vinyl still in a lamenant*im sure the spelling is horrible*

Good to be sh sh shayne. So today i went up thier and for some reason thought fuck go look int he sp vinyl section. Thier i see a gish vinyl for the whooping price of 9.59. I dont' no if virgin ever made a vinyl realase of gish but i saw the caroline on the back and about creamed myself.


So now i own gish on vinyl still in a lamenant*im sure the spelling is horrible*

Good to be sh sh shayne. So today i went up thier and for some reason thought fuck go look int he sp vinyl section. Thier i see a gish vinyl for the whooping price of 9.59. I dont' no if virgin ever made a vinyl realase of gish but i saw the caroline on the back and about creamed myself.


So now i own gish on vinyl still in a lamenant*im sure the spelling is horrible*

Good to be sh sh shayne. So today i went up thier and for some reason thought fuck go look int he sp vinyl section. Thier i see a gish vinyl for the whooping price of 9.59. I dont' no if virgin ever made a vinyl realase of gish but i saw the caroline on the back and about creamed myself.


So now i own gish on vinyl still in a lamenant*im sure the spelling is horrible*

Good to be sh sh shayne. So today i went up thier and for some reason thought fuck go look int he sp vinyl section. Thier i see a gish vinyl for the whooping price of 9.59. I dont' no if virgin ever made a vinyl realase of gish but i saw the caroline on the back and about creamed myself.


So now i own gish on vinyl still in a lamenant*im sure the spelling is horrible*

Good to be sh sh shayne. So today i went up thier and for some reason thought fuck go look int he sp vinyl section. Thier i see a gish vinyl for the whooping price of 9.59. I dont' no if virgin ever made a vinyl realase of gish but i saw the caroline on the back and about creamed myself.


So now i own gish on vinyl still in a lamenant*im sure the spelling is horrible*

Good to be sh sh shayne. So today i went up thier and for some reason thought fuck go look int he sp vinyl section. Thier i see a gish vinyl for the whooping price of 9.59. I dont' no if virgin ever made a vinyl realase of gish but i saw the caroline on the back and about creamed myself.


So now i own gish on vinyl still in a lamenant*im sure the spelling is horrible*

Good to be sh sh shayne. So today i went up thier and for some reason thought fuck go look int he sp vinyl section. Thier i see a gish vinyl for the whooping price of 9.59. I dont' no if virgin ever made a vinyl realase of gish but i saw the caroline on the back and about creamed myself.


So now i own gish on vinyl still in a lamenant*im sure the spelling is horrible*

Good to be sh sh shayne. So today i went up thier and for some reason thought fuck go look int he sp vinyl section. Thier i see a gish vinyl for the whooping price of 9.59. I dont' no if virgin ever made a vinyl realase of gish but i saw the caroline on the back and about creamed myself.


So now i own gish on vinyl still in a lamenant*im sure the spelling is horrible*

Good to be sh sh shayne. So today i went up thier and for some reason thought fuck go look int he sp vinyl section. Thier i see a gish vinyl for the whooping price of 9.59. I dont' no if virgin ever made a vinyl realase of gish but i saw the caroline on the back and about creamed myself.


So now i own gish on vinyl still in a lamenant*im sure the spelling is horrible*

Good to be sh sh shayne. So today i went up thier and for some reason thought fuck go look int he sp vinyl section. Thier i see a gish vinyl for the whooping price of 9.59. I dont' no if virgin ever made a vinyl realase of gish but i saw the caroline on the back and about creamed myself.


So now i own gish on vinyl still in a lamenant*im sure the spelling is horrible*

Good to be sh sh shayne. So today i went up thier and for some reason thought fuck go look int he sp vinyl section. Thier i see a gish vinyl for the whooping price of 9.59. I dont' no if virgin ever made a vinyl realase of gish but i saw the caroline on the back and about creamed myself.


So now i own gish on vinyl still in a lamenant*im sure the spelling is horrible*

Good to be sh sh shayne. So today i went up thier and for some reason thought fuck go look int he sp vinyl section. Thier i see a gish vinyl for the whooping price of 9.59. I dont' no if virgin ever made a vinyl realase of gish but i saw the caroline on the back and about creamed myself.


So now i own gish on vinyl still in a lamenant*im sure the spelling is horrible*

Good to be sh sh shayne. So today i went up thier and for some reason thought fuck go look int he sp vinyl section. Thier i see a gish vinyl for the whooping price of 9.59. I dont' no if virgin ever made a vinyl realase of gish but i saw the caroline on the back and about creamed myself.


So now i own gish on vinyl still in a lamenant*im sure the spelling is horrible*

Good to be sh sh shayne. So today i went up thier and for some reason thought fuck go look int he sp vinyl section. Thier i see a gish vinyl for the whooping price of 9.59. I dont' no if virgin ever made a vinyl realase of gish but i saw the caroline on the back and about creamed myself.


So now i own gish on vinyl still in a lamenant*im sure the spelling is horrible*

Good to be sh sh shayne. So today i went up thier and for some reason thought fuck go look int he sp vinyl section. Thier i see a gish vinyl for the whooping price of 9.59. I dont' no if virgin ever made a vinyl realase of gish but i saw the caroline on the back and about creamed myself.


So now i own gish on vinyl still in a lamenant*im sure the spelling is horrible*

Good to be sh sh shayne. So today i went up thier and for some reason thought fuck go look int he sp vinyl section. Thier i see a gish vinyl for the whooping price of 9.59. I dont' no if virgin ever made a vinyl realase of gish but i saw the caroline on the back and about creamed myself.


So now i own gish on vinyl still in a lamenant*im sure the spelling is horrible*

Good to be sh sh shayne. So today i went up thier and for some reason thought fuck go look int he sp vinyl section. Thier i see a gish vinyl for the whooping price of 9.59. I dont' no if virgin ever made a vinyl realase of gish but i saw the caroline on the back and about creamed myself.


So now i own gish on vinyl still in a lamenant*im sure the spelling is horrible*

Good to be sh sh shayne. So today i went up thier and for some reason thought fuck go look int he sp vinyl section. Thier i see a gish vinyl for the whooping price of 9.59. I dont' no if virgin ever made a vinyl realase of gish but i saw the caroline on the back and about creamed myself.


So now i own gish on vinyl still in a lamenant*im sure the spelling is horrible*

Good to be sh sh shayne. So today i went up thier and for some reason thought fuck go look int he sp vinyl section. Thier i see a gish vinyl for the whooping price of 9.59. I dont' no if virgin ever made a vinyl realase of gish but i saw the caroline on the back and about creamed myself.


So now i own gish on vinyl still in a lamenant*im sure the spelling is horrible*

Good to be sh sh shayne. So today i went up thier and for some reason thought fuck go look int he sp vinyl section. Thier i see a gish vinyl for the whooping price of 9.59. I dont' no if virgin ever made a vinyl realase of gish but i saw the caroline on the back and about creamed myself.


So now i own gish on vinyl still in a lamenant*im sure the spelling is horrible*

Good to be sh sh shayne. So today i went up thier and for some reason thought fuck go look int he sp vinyl section. Thier i see a gish vinyl for the whooping price of 9.59. I dont' no if virgin ever made a vinyl realase of gish but i saw the caroline on the back and about creamed myself.


So now i own gish on vinyl still in a lamenant*im sure the spelling is horrible*

Good to be sh sh shayne. So today i went up thier and for some reason thought fuck go look int he sp vinyl section. Thier i see a gish vinyl for the whooping price of 9.59. I dont' no if virgin ever made a vinyl realase of gish but i saw the caroline on the back and about creamed myself.


So now i own gish on vinyl still in a lamenant*im sure the spelling is horrible*

Good to be sh sh shayne. So today i went up thier and for some reason thought fuck go look int he sp vinyl section. Thier i see a gish vinyl for the whooping price of 9.59. I dont' no if virgin ever made a vinyl realase of gish but i saw the caroline on the back and about creamed myself.


So now i own gish on vinyl still in a lamenant*im sure the spelling is horrible*

Good to be sh sh shayne. So today i went up thier and for some reason thought fuck go look int he sp vinyl section. Thier i see a gish vinyl for the whooping price of 9.59. I dont' no if virgin ever made a vinyl realase of gish but i saw the caroline on the back and about creamed myself.


So now i own gish on vinyl still in a lamenant*im sure the spelling is horrible*

Good to be sh sh shayne.

 
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Old 02-13-2008, 01:01 AM   #24
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guys use spam as a way to beautify the internet


 
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Old 02-13-2008, 01:02 AM   #25
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aawww this picture is cool

http://www.kurandascenicrailway.com....cm21-13065.jpg

 
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Old 02-13-2008, 01:03 AM   #26
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Homosexuality: Questions and Answers PDF Print E-mail
Written by Sue Bohlin


Q. Some people say homosexuality is natural and moral; others say it is unnatural and immoral. How do we know?

A. Our standard can only be what God says. In Romans 1 we read,

God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion (Rom 1:26-27).

So even though homosexual desires feel natural, they are actually unnatural, because God says they are. He also calls all sexual involvement outside of marriage immoral. (There are 44 references to fornication—sexual immorality—in the Bible.) Therefore, any form of homosexual activity, whether a one-night stand or a long-term monogamous relationship, is by definition immoral—just as any abuse of heterosexuality outside of marriage is immoral.

Q. Is homosexuality an orientation God intended for some people, or is it a perversion of normal sexuality?

A. If God had intended homosexuality to be a viable sexual alternative for some people, He would not have condemned it as an abomination. It is never mentioned in Scripture in anything but negative terms, and nowhere does the Bible even hint at approving or giving instruction for homosexual relationships. Some theologians have argued that David and Jonathan's relationship was a homosexual one, but this claim has no basis in Scripture. David and Jonathan's deep friendship was not sexual; it was one of godly emotional intimacy that truly glorified the Lord.

Homosexuality is a manifestation of the sin nature that all people share. At the fall of man (Gen 3), God's perfect creation was spoiled, and the taint of sin affected us physically, emotionally, intellectually, spiritually—and sexually. Homosexuality is a perversion of heterosexuality, which is God's plan for His creation. The Lord Jesus said,

In the beginning the Creator made them male and female. For this reason, a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh (Matt 19:4, 5).

Homosexual activity and pre-marital or extra-marital heterosexual activity are all sinful attempts to find sexual and emotional expression in ways God never intended. God's desire for the person caught in the trap of homosexuality is the same as for every other person caught in the trap of the sin nature; that we submit every area of our lives to Him and be transformed from the inside out by the renewing of our minds and the purifying of our hearts.

Q. What causes a homosexual orientation?

A. This is a complex issue, and it is unfair to give simplistic answers or explanations. Some people start out as heterosexuals, but they rebel against God with such passionate self-indulgence that they end up embracing the gay lifestyle as another form of sexual expression. As one entertainer put it, "I'm not going to go through life with one arm tied behind my back!"

But the majority of gays sense they are "different" from very early in life, and at some point they are encouraged to identify this difference as being gay. These people may experience "pre-conditions" that dispose them toward homosexuality, such as a sensitive and gentle temperament in boys, which is not recognized as acceptably masculine in our culture. Another may be poor eye-hand coordination that prevents a boy from doing well at sports, which is a sure way to invite shame and taunting from other boys (and, most unfortunately, from some of their own fathers and family members). Family relationships are usually very important in the development of homosexuality; the vast majority of those who struggle with same-sex attraction experienced a hurtful relationship with the same-sex parent in childhood. The presence of abuse is a recurring theme in the early lives of many homosexual strugglers. In one study, 91% of lesbian women reported childhood and adolescent abuse, 2/3 of them victims of sexual abuse.{1} There is a huge difference, however, between predispositions that affects gender identity, and the choices we make in how we handle a predisposition. Because we are made in the image of God, we can choose how we respond to the various factors that may contribute to a homosexual orientation.

Q. Wouldn't the presence of pre-conditions let homosexuals "off the hook," so to speak?

A. Preconditions make it easier to sin in a particular area. They do not excuse the sin. We can draw a parallel with alcoholism. Alcoholics often experience a genetic or environmental pre-condition, which makes it easier for them to fall into the sin of drunkenness. Is it a sin to want a drink? No. It's a sin to drink to excess.

All of us experience various predispositions that make it easier for us to fall into certain sins. For example, highly intelligent people find it easier to fall into the sin of intellectual pride. People who were physically abused as children may fall into the sins of rage and violence more easily than others.

Current popular thinking says that our behavior is determined by our environment or our genes, or both. But the Bible gives us the dignity and responsibility missing from that mechanistic view of life. God has invested us with free will—the ability to make real, significant choices. We can choose our responses to the influences on our lives, or we can choose to let them control us.

Someone with a predisposition for homosexuality may fall into the sin of the homosexual behavior much more easily than a person without it. But each of us alone is responsible for giving ourselves permission to cross over from temptation into sin.

Q. What's the difference between homosexual temptation and sin?

A. Unasked-for, uncultivated sexual desires for a person of the same sex constitute temptation, not sin. Since the Lord Jesus was "tempted in every way, just as we are (Heb. 4:15)," He fully knows the intensity and nature of the temptations we face. But He never gave in to them.

The line between sexual temptation and sexual sin is the same for both heterosexuals and homosexuals. It is the point at which our conscious will gets involved. Sin begins with the internal acts of lusting and creating sexual fantasies. Lust is indulging one's sexual desires by deliberately choosing to feed sexual attraction—you might say it is the sinful opposite of meditation. Sexual fantasies are conscious acts of the imagination. It is creating mental pornographic home movies. Just as the Lord said in the Sermon on the Mount, all sexual sin starts in the mind long before it gets to the point of physical expression.

Many homosexuals claim, "I never asked for these feelings. I did not choose them," and this may be true. That is why it is significant to note that the Bible specifically condemns homosexual practices, but not undeveloped homosexual feelings (temptation). There is a difference between having sexual feelings and letting them grow into lust. When Martin Luther was talking about impure thoughts, he said, "You can't stop the birds from flying over your head, but you can keep them from building a nest in your hair."

Q. Isn't it true that "Once gay, always gay?"

A. It is certainly true that most homosexuals never become heterosexual—some because they don't want to, but most others because their efforts to change were unsuccessful. It takes spiritual submission and much emotional work to repent of sexual sin and achieve a healthy self-concept that glorifies God.

But for the person caught in the trap of homosexual desires who wants sexual and emotional wholeness, there is hope in Christ. In addressing the church at Corinth, the Apostle Paul lists an assortment of deep sins, including homosexual offenses. He says,

And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ (1 Cor 6:11).

This means there were former homosexuals in the church at Corinth! The Lord's loving redemption includes eventual freedom for all sin that is yielded to Him. Some (rare) people experience no homosexual temptations ever again. But for most others who are able to achieve change, homosexual desires are gradually reduced from a major problem to a minor nuisance that no longer dominates their lives. The probability of heterosexual desires returning or emerging depends on a person's sexual history.

But the potential for heterosexuality is present in everyone because God put it there.

Q. If homosexuality is such an abomination to God, why doesn't it disappear when someone becomes a Christian?

A. When we are born again, we bring with us all of our emotional needs and all of our old ways of relating. Homosexuality is a relational problem of meeting emotional needs the wrong way; it is not an isolated problem of mere sexual preference. With the power of the indwelling Spirit, a Christian can cooperate with God to change this unacceptable part of life. Some people—a very few—are miraculously delivered from homosexual struggles. But for the majority, real change is slow. As in dealing with any besetting sin, it is a process, not an event. Sin's power over us is broken at the moment we are born again, but learning to depend on the Holy Spirit to say no to sin and yes to godliness takes time. 2 Cor. 3:18 says, "We...are being transformed into His likeness from glory to glory." Transformation (this side of eternity!) is a process that takes a while. Life in a fallen world is a painful struggle. It is not a pleasant thing to have two oppositional natures at war within us!

Homosexuality is not one problem; it is symptomatic of other, deeper problems involving emotional needs and an unhealthy self-concept. Salvation is only the beginning of emotional health. It allows us to experience human intimacy as God intended us to, finding healing for our damaged emotions. It isn't that faith in Christ isn't enough; faith in Christ is the beginning.

Q. Does the fact that I had an early homosexual experience mean I'm gay?

A. Sex is strictly meant for adults. The Song of Solomon says three times, "Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires." This is a warning not to raise sexual feelings until the time is right. Early sexual experience can be painful or pleasurable, but either way, it constitutes child abuse. It traumatizes a child or teen. This loss of innocence does need to be addressed and perhaps even grieved through, but doesn't mean you're gay.

Sexual experimentation is something many children and teens do as a part of growing up. You may have enjoyed the feelings you experienced, but that is because God created our bodies to respond to pleasure. It probably made you feel confused and ashamed, which is an appropriate response to an inappropriate behavior. Don't let anyone tell you it means you're gay: it means you're human.

Even apart from the sexual aspect, though, our culture has come to view close friendships with a certain amount of suspicion. If you enjoy emotional intimacy with a friend of the same sex, especially if it is accompanied by the presence of sexual feelings that emerge in adolescence, you can find yourself very confused. But it doesn't mean you're gay.

It is a tragic myth that once a person has a homosexual experience, or even thinks about one, that he or she is gay for life.

Q. Are homosexuals condemned to hell?

A. Homosexuality is not a "heaven or hell" issue. The only determining factor is whether a person has been reconciled to God through Jesus Christ.

In 1 Cor. 6, Paul says that homosexual offenders and a whole list of other sinners will not inherit the kingdom of God. But then he reminds the Corinthians that they have been washed, sanctified, and justified in Jesus' name. Paul makes a distinction between unchristian behavior and Christian behavior. He's saying, "You're not pagans anymore, you are a holy people belonging to King Jesus. Now act like it!"

If homosexuality doesn't send anyone to hell, then can the believer indulge in homosexual behavior, safe in his or her eternal security? As Paul said, "May it never be!" If someone is truly a child of God, he or she cannot continue sinful behavior that offends and grieves the Father without suffering the consequences. God disciplines those He loves. This means that ultimately, no believer gets away with continued, unrepented sin. The discipline may not come immediately, but it will come.

Q. How do I respond when someone in my life tells me he or she is gay?

A. Take your cue from the Lord Jesus. He didn't avoid sinners; He ministered grace and compassion to them—without ever compromising His commitment to holiness. Start by cultivating a humble heart, especially concerning the temptation to react with judgmental condescension. As Billy Graham said, "Never take credit for not falling into a temptation that never tempted you in the first place."

Seek to understand your gay friends' feelings. Are they comfortable with their gayness, or bewildered and resentful of it? Understanding people doesn't mean that you have to agree with them—but it is the best way to minister grace and love in a difficult time. Accept the fact that, to this person, these feelings are normal. You can't change their minds or their feelings. Too often, parents will send their gay child to a counselor and say, "Fix him." It just doesn't work that way.

As a Christian, you are a light shining in a dark place. Be a friend with a tender heart and a winsome spirit; the biggest problem of homosexuals is not their sexuality, but their need for Jesus Christ. At the same time, pre-decide what your boundaries will be about what behavior you just cannot condone in your presence. One college student I know excuses herself from a group when the affection becomes physical; she just gets up and leaves. It is all right to be uncomfortable around blatant sin; you do not have to subject yourself—and the Holy Spirit within you—to what grieves Him. Consider how you would be a friend to people who are living promiscuous heterosexual lives. Like the Lord, we need to value and esteem the person without condoning the sin.

 
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Old 02-13-2008, 01:04 AM   #27
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Old 02-13-2008, 01:08 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noyen View Post
Best YouTube ever.

 
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Old 02-13-2008, 01:08 AM   #29
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i found geo and ******


 
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Old 02-13-2008, 01:09 AM   #30
Trotskilicious
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boy noscript is nice i never have to load youtube clips ever again

 
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