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Old 05-20-2011, 08:57 AM   #61
RenewRevive
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it is a subjective term. there are plenty of unsuccessful "pop" bands - lack of commercial success doesn't make them any more indie/alternative whatever. i guess any band that releases a single is almost by definition pop. thinking about it did the pumpkins have big hit singles in any major market? i seem to recall billy saying as much in an interview during the mcis-era and they sure didn't have any hits after that time period.

when does a band cross-over into pop anyway - is it a distinct shift in their sound, or just popularity, or having hit singles? in which case Zeppelin qualify by being enormously popular. nobody would call nirvana pop band when bleach was released but 2 years later they were a huge pop band. but was in utero a pop record, even though their profile was just as big?

 
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Old 05-20-2011, 10:14 AM   #62
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these are worthy queries

 
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Old 05-20-2011, 07:02 PM   #63
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the minute they record I Am One

 
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Old 05-20-2011, 07:03 PM   #64
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i really wish you guys would drop this grunge era pop = bad bullshit

Last edited by Trotskilicious : 05-20-2011 at 07:19 PM.

 
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Old 05-20-2011, 07:20 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RenewRevive View Post
thinking about it did the pumpkins have big hit singles in any major market? i seem to recall billy saying as much in an interview during the mcis-era and they sure didn't have any hits after that time period.
Is this some kind of joke. I know you're English and shit but ffs.

 
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Old 05-21-2011, 02:52 AM   #66
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I like that question, though...when does it become "pop"? I'd say, generally, when something either a) transcends and disperses into the general, (mainly youth) trend driven cultural market or b) mimics the predominant style of this contemporary market.

 
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Old 05-21-2011, 03:07 AM   #67
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No, it's when it's a catchy song with simple structure and a memorable chorus. I Am One, Disarm, Cherub Rock, 1979, Tonight Tonight...

1979 was written explicitly to be a monster pop song.

I mean besides the fact that SP is pop even according to your definition.

Last edited by Trotskilicious : 05-21-2011 at 10:22 PM.

 
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Old 05-21-2011, 08:18 AM   #68
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Is this some kind of joke. I know you're English and shit but ffs.
hey now cowboy!

i'm not talking about mtv or airplay here, but actual sales?

 
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Old 05-21-2011, 10:17 PM   #69
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i dunno 14 million i thought was the MCIS total, for a double album. They played huge venues. I mean seriously they were the biggest band in the world from 1995-1996 and then everyone jumped off the bandwagon when the songs from the movies and then the adore stuff came out.

1979 and Tonight Tonight were two of the biggest pop crossover hits of 1995 & 1996. Seriously dude, those songs...almost everyone that listened to rock knows those songs. Even the black kids were telling me "Oh you like the Smashing Pumpkins? That 1979 song is the jam."

if you're talking about singles sales those haven't honestly mattered since the days of 7" vinyl and motown. ffs.

 
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Old 05-22-2011, 01:34 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trotskilicious View Post
No, it's when it's a catchy song with simple structure and a memorable chorus. I Am One, Disarm, Cherub Rock, 1979, Tonight Tonight...

1979 was written explicitly to be a monster pop song.

I mean besides the fact that SP is pop even according to your definition.
Well definitely a song like 1979 is pop by definition of its style and then perhaps even some of the heavier MCIS songs because of their ability to fit within a favored style of the time and gain favor with a relatively large mainstream audience to the point that numerous pop culture references in mediums besides music were made to the band.

But I Am One...I still have trouble seeing how that is really pop. What ISN'T pop to you, then? By your definition basically most rock music would be pop. To me, pop is really one of those things that...you know it when you hear it.

 
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Old 05-22-2011, 04:23 AM   #71
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you're just trying to pretend like what you like isn't mainstream as fuck

 
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Old 05-22-2011, 09:35 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trotskilicious View Post
i dunno 14 million i thought was the MCIS total, for a double album. They played huge venues. I mean seriously they were the biggest band in the world from 1995-1996 and then everyone jumped off the bandwagon when the songs from the movies and then the adore stuff came out.

1979 and Tonight Tonight were two of the biggest pop crossover hits of 1995 & 1996. Seriously dude, those songs...almost everyone that listened to rock knows those songs. Even the black kids were telling me "Oh you like the Smashing Pumpkins? That 1979 song is the jam."

if you're talking about singles sales those haven't honestly mattered since the days of 7" vinyl and motown. ffs.
okay i will concede that at one point in the mid 90s they were indeed a huge pop band. like i said though - and obviously this is an insular viewl - i never got the impression they were that big over here in cloudy old britain. i think the preponderance of album sales for the band have been in the US - i doubt their profile in the rest of the world is as big as you think it was.

as re: singles i am by no means an expert on pop culture (no sniggering there at the back!) but surely the success of huge mainstream pop acts like Gaga etc is singles-driven? not talking about people buying CD singles, watching MTV, listening to the radio or whatever. i mean how many albums do they shift (whether physical or digital) anyways? and aren't most albums by pop acts of whatever genre just delivery media for collections of singles - much like in the 50s and early 60s?

to add to what stumpy is saying though it seems like your definition of a pop song is that it has a discernible melody and/or hook.

 
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Old 05-22-2011, 05:02 PM   #73
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you know the point that they weren't "that big in Britain" is again moot, because Blur wasn't big in america at all except for Song #2 which hilariously was making fun of american music but that doesn't make them underground or anything.

yeah sure itunes singles are unit movers whatever, I just don't think it's really been any different than it used to be and you all are really just trying to figure out ways to pretend like you didn't jump on the bandwagon of an incredibly famous and well known band.

 
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Old 05-22-2011, 05:20 PM   #74
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I remember back when the Disarm single was released in the UK, it co-incided with the murder of Jamie Bulger by two 11 year old boys. Because of the lyrics a lot of radio stations decided not to play it, and I reckon that stopped SP being huge in the UK.

 
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Old 05-22-2011, 05:40 PM   #75
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from Wikipedia

The BBC banned the song from appearing on Top of the Pops, because of the lyric "cut that little child", and it received little radio airplay in the United Kingdom.[2] That lyric along with lyrics like "what I choose is my choice" and "the killer in me is the killer in you" has also led to some controversy, as some read it as implying that abortion is murder. Corgan, however, has clearly asserted that the song is about the shaky relationship he had with his parents while growing up.[3] However, even with the ban and the limited radio time, it still peaked at number eleven on the UK Singles Chart.

 
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Old 05-22-2011, 07:34 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trotskilicious View Post
you all are really just trying to figure out ways to pretend like you didn't jump on the bandwagon of an incredibly famous and well known band.
hey we can disagree. it's all good. but i could give two shits about how popular a band is, it's not as if i even knew anybody who was on about them being a great band or anything.

 
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Old 05-22-2011, 11:30 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by Trotskilicious View Post
you're just trying to pretend like what you like isn't mainstream as fuck
Not really...some of what I like is definitely in the mainstream and some is not. Most of the music in the mainstream right now I can't stand because of the style that is popular right now. It's not bad when the styles I favor actually end up in the mainstream, though, because it's nice and convenient like when the stores start carrying all the styles and colors I happen to like and I don't have to go sort through ebay or goodwill to find something that is a match to my specific preferences.

Oh, wait...this conversation is really about your definition of "pop", not the definition of "mainstream"...as I think we're in perfectly sound agreement about the latter. Does your entire argument here hinge of the premise that pop = mainstream? For example, Tool is obviously a mainstream band, but how the fuck would they be categorized as pop by any stretch of the imagination? It must be your privileged Austin view of music. Either that, or what I guess you might call the very straight laced definition of pop provided by university level musicologists.

I do know that Billy's true ambition was always to be part of the rock-pop mainstream.

 
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Old 05-22-2011, 11:34 PM   #78
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i dunno what the argument is the pumpkins wrote pop music and were hugely mainstream!!!

 
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Old 05-24-2011, 05:51 AM   #79
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can't embed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcIwf5611ko&NR=1

 
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Old 05-25-2011, 12:58 AM   #80
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LOL, they would put that on a Squier.

 
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Old 06-03-2011, 08:45 AM   #81
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I would comment, but I'm confused by the capitalization in the forum topic.

 
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Old 06-10-2011, 03:42 PM   #82
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.

 
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Old 06-10-2011, 05:20 PM   #83
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Press caps lock and start typing, it will all make sense.

 
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Old 04-26-2015, 02:03 AM   #84
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AW FUCK YEAH THIS SONG FUCKEN RULES

 
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Old 04-26-2015, 03:28 AM   #85
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YOU KNOW I HATE TO SAY IT

 
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Old 04-26-2015, 03:29 AM   #86
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I DON'T WANNA BE LIKE THE OTHERS PLEASE

 
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Old 04-26-2015, 03:30 AM   #87
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It really is one of my faves fo sho

 
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Old 04-26-2015, 04:23 AM   #88
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Quote:
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i own one of these
probably my favorite guitar at the moment considering it cost me $60 & i don't have to treat it like a glass vase every time i play. plus the thing just feels & sounds good

alright baby, it's time to roooll!

 
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Old 04-26-2015, 10:18 AM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monet LSD View Post
gotta love the different ending-extended outro on the Mashed Potatoes version
fuck yes! what a senescent jam! one of the best billy/jimmy rock out moments!


!

 
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Old 04-26-2015, 10:19 AM   #90
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Quote:
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i dunno what the argument is the pumpkins wrote pop music and were hugely mainstream!!!
ur mom was hugely mainstream.

 
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