I'm listening to MTAE for the first time

[pavementtune]

stop it, staaaaaaaaaap, you MTAE haters, please!

imagine, if someone tells Bully that someone said online that it's a steaming pile of shit, he might pull it off spotify.

and i don't have the album any more, I need my D.d.d.ooooorian on spotify, okay? Don't ruin that for me.

[DaveKShape]

Just curious - in what scenario is it OK for a) someone to listen to this album and b) think it is not good and then c) that person's opinion is valid?

[MonumentsRocks]

Originally Posted by DaveKShape

Just curious - in what scenario is it OK for a) someone to listen to this album and b) think it is not good and then c) that person's opinion is valid?

Opinions are fine, but that's not what is typically peddled. "It’s an alright album if you take it for what it is. A joke." "It’s a novelty album.", "it really is the least interesting SP record", these are not opinions, they are nonfactual statements. People just make shit up, and when you call them out, they play the opinion card. Opinions generally start with "IMO.." "or "IME.." or "I think that..." or end with "YMMV", "FWIW", "my 2¢"etc.

[MplsTaper]

Originally Posted by MonumentsRocks

I've been stuck for several minutes trying to decide which of these two sentence is more profoundly stupid.

Although I've only heard a couple of studio cuts from Monuments I'm certain both Adore and Machina are 500 times better. Would you not agree Clay?

[MonumentsRocks]

Originally Posted by MplsTaper

Although I've only heard a couple of studio cuts from Monuments I'm certain both Adore and Machina are 500 times better.

Not five hundred and one times better? How did you do calculate it out to five hundred?

[MplsTaper]

Originally Posted by MonumentsRocks

Not five hundred and one times better? How did you do calculate it out to five hundred?

Just curious if you are a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LSD)?

[fuzzyroes]

Originally Posted by Zer0 Hour

American Gothic was okay but I'd much rather listen to the Cult song by the same name. That whole album was so good. It came out around the same time as Machina and after listening to that mess of an album and concluding that the Pumpkins were done, I picked up Beyond Good and Evil and was like, "Okay, now THESE guys still know how to fucking rock." That album is criminally underrated.

Never much listened to The Cult past their glory days. I'll check this out

[fuzzyroes]

Originally Posted by incubator

It’s a novelty album.

It's a fun. light album... I wouldn't say it's a "novelty"

Corgan is on the record stating since the Zwan days that he is consciously avoiding depressing music and trying to focus on "the light"... He especially hammered home with that narrative during the era just after Zeitgeist.

I suppose my point is that the lack of sensitive and depressing music isn't a reflection of him "not trying".. So to compare the work to songs like Porcelina is missing the mark.

Billy is just one of those new-age type of guys now and he only wants to tap into positive energy... It is what it is.

[Zer0 Hour]

Originally Posted by fuzzyroes

Never much listened to The Cult past their glory days. I'll check this out

It’s a great album. It’s heavy on guitar solos though, and apparently those are out of style, lol.

[reprise85]

Originally Posted by MonumentsRocks

If MTaE was released by some band that lives down the street, everyone would think it is great. Nearly all the criticism is that it's bad because the Smashing Pumpkins are capable of "better". That's just an excuse people use to blame their own personal disappointment on the bad. If it's an enjoyable listen, it's an enjoyable listen.

nah mate, if some band down the street made it no one would have ever heard it cuz no record company would have promoted it. there is absolutely nothing special about MTAE that would make it pierce into the public consciousness if not for the fact that billy corgan made it

IN MY OPINION

[reprise85]

Originally Posted by fuzzyroes

I suppose my point is that the lack of sensitive and depressing music isn't a reflection of him "not trying".. So to compare the work to songs like Porcelina is missing the mark.

he can and has written good happy songs

[reprise85]

also clay, which album is more boring than MTAE?

[fuzzyroes]

Originally Posted by Zer0 Hour

It’s heavy on guitar solos though, and apparently those are out of style, lol.

That's one of my favorite things in music! haha

[fuzzyroes]

Originally Posted by reprise85

he can and has written good happy songs

Such as?

I can't really think of any in the original run of the band... Unless you count some of the more ironic takes like Today and Perfect.

[redbreegull]

Today is about suicide and Perfect is a break-up song

[fuzzyroes]

No shit... But I've had people in person comment about both songs being uplifting... I certainly wouldn't consider them as good happy songs, but they're about as close as it gets when considering that criteria for the original run of the band.

It's a fact that Corgan started to suck when he made a cognizant effort to avoid depressing and sad material.

[Shadaloo]

With Every Light
Beautiful
Snail
Muzzle
Tonight Tonight

And For Martha, despite being about some very, very sad subject matter, is ultimately a beautiful song with a message of perseverance and acceptance.

[Corgan's Bluff]

Corgan sold 1000 signed vinyl-copies from his tea shop. For $200.00, like the Christmas vinyls?

http://spfreaks.com/wp-content/uploa...TAE-greena.jpg


How do you need to do a sampler from a record that is already just 30 minutes playing?

https://img.discogs.com/a6jMuIu4YzqG...-3386.jpeg.jpg


Somehow this cover version looks more charming...

https://cdn-03.independent.ie/entert...5092199_I2.JPG

[D.]

i haven't listened to anything past the first teargarden ep

i just downloaded mtae and oceania and even ogilala. i might actually listen to them.

maybe.

[incubator]

Originally Posted by MonumentsRocks

Opinions are fine, but that's not what is typically peddled. "It’s an alright album if you take it for what it is. A joke." "It’s a novelty album.", "it really is the least interesting SP record", these are not opinions, they are nonfactual statements. People just make shit up, and when you call them out, they play the opinion card. Opinions generally start with "IMO.." "or "IME.." or "I think that..." or end with "YMMV", "FWIW", "my 2¢"etc.

You sound like a casual fan.. just listen to the album. Really listen to it. It’s billy trolling the fans.

[incubator]

Originally Posted by D.

i haven't listened to anything past the first teargarden ep

i just downloaded mtae and oceania and even ogilala. i might actually listen to them.

maybe.

They’re all a lot better than the first teargarden ep

[VoxUpDoc]

Originally Posted by D.

i haven't listened to anything past the first teargarden ep

i just downloaded mtae and oceania and even ogilala. i might actually listen to them.

maybe.

Ogilala is significantly better than the other two fwiw. Might want to start with it work down.

[Corgan's Bluff]

Originally Posted by Mals Marola

Anaise is one of the good ones, imo

Personal message from WPC for the brave MONUMENT fans:

https://scontent-frx5-1.xx.fbcdn.net...ed&oe=5C787FC4

[MonumentsRocks]

Originally Posted by incubator

You sound like a casual fan.. just listen to the album. Really listen to it. It’s billy trolling the fans.

If he wanted to troll the fans he'd just re-record Siamese Dream, in one continuous take. The superfans would eat it up, too.

[Mals Marola]

Originally Posted by redbreegull

For me it's bad because there is literally no substance at all. It's like a shell of an album. It really feels like the amount of investment Bill had in MTAE was effectively zero, and it shows. There is just no vision whatsoever.

Early Teargarden is worse in terms of the quality of the songs, but MTAE is almost as embarrassing an endeavor because there is so little vision or substance of any kind. If you look at songs like Hummer or Porcelina, it is evident that these are songs which took quite a lot of time and effort to put together, and probably involved many stages of editing. MTAE is basically the symbolic antithesis to that, because it's like Bill pulled a bunch of lazy songs out of his ass one day and gave them the studio treatment with absolutely no reflection on what he was doing. It feels like a rote exercise in how Billy Corgan workshops songs.

Tbh I've long since accepted the Billy of the post-Machina era as a different being altogether than the one responsible for the songs you mentioned. If I went in lookin for a new Hummer or Porcelina I'd prob be deeply disappointed as well. Compared to Oceania & Zeitgeist tho? S'alright

[Mals Marola]

Originally Posted by Shadaloo

With Every Light
Beautiful
Snail
Muzzle
Tonight Tonight

And For Martha, despite being about some very, very sad subject matter, is ultimately a beautiful song with a message of perseverance and acceptance.

All of these I would say are at least in part very bittersweet, not outright happy. Which is part of what makes it so jarring when he does attempt an actual, bonafide "happy" songs these days, i guess

[Mals Marola]

Originally Posted by Corgan's Bluff

Personal message from WPC for the brave MONUMENT fans:

https://scontent-frx5-1.xx.fbcdn.net...ed&oe=5C787FC4

As much courage as it took to deem a track on the album "one of the good ones," I somehow doubt this response meant what you think it did

[smashingjj]

Originally Posted by MonumentsRocks

If he wanted to troll the fans he'd just re-record Siamese Dream, in one continuous take. The superfans would eat it up, too.

Billy Corgan was a bad, awful, corrupt, debased, debauched, decaying, declining, degenerate, degraded, depraved, dissolute, effete, evil, gone bad, immoral, moribund, overripe, wanton, wicked man. His stupid and short little life wasn't nothing but sodomy, fornication, illegal drug addictions, and he is a sinner.

Billy Corgan was a terrible man.

He robbed banks, stole cars, and was addicted to heroin.

He sold cocaine and barbituates, went to prison, and lived on the streets because he spent all his money on drugs. He was an alchoholic, and he was extremely low-class, basically had a horrible personality.

He had slept with 5,500 GAY men.

He smoked too much marijuana.

The stupid faggot lead a horrible life. It wasn't really anything but sodomy, fornication, being addicted to drugs, shoplifting, and racism.

...He was immoral.

...and he liked to steal things from museums.

...he liked to fornicate with gay men.

...he raped people.

...he was addicted to heroin, barbituates, cocaine, LSD, and morphine.

...he was often arrested for drug possesion.

...he organized a shooting at McDonalds.

Everybody acts like he was so great, but in reality he wasn't nothing but some drug addicted loser. He was a disgusting man and was terrible.

[DaveKShape]

Originally Posted by smashingjj

Billy Corgan was a bad, awful, corrupt, debased, debauched, decaying, declining, degenerate, degraded, depraved, dissolute, effete, evil, gone bad, immoral, moribund, overripe, wanton, wicked man. His stupid and short little life wasn't nothing but sodomy, fornication, illegal drug addictions, and he is a sinner.

Billy Corgan was a terrible man.

He robbed banks, stole cars, and was addicted to heroin.

He sold cocaine and barbituates, went to prison, and lived on the streets because he spent all his money on drugs. He was an alchoholic, and he was extremely low-class, basically had a horrible personality.

He had slept with 5,500 GAY men.

He smoked too much marijuana.

The stupid faggot lead a horrible life. It wasn't really anything but sodomy, fornication, being addicted to drugs, shoplifting, and racism.

...He was immoral.

...and he liked to steal things from museums.

...he liked to fornicate with gay men.

...he raped people.

...he was addicted to heroin, barbituates, cocaine, LSD, and morphine.

...he was often arrested for drug possesion.

...he organized a shooting at McDonalds.

Everybody acts like he was so great, but in reality he wasn't nothing but some drug addicted loser. He was a disgusting man and was terrible.

Man, Alan Wu was fucking hilarious. His posts about drug use/suicide/living in a shithole/Queen always cracked me up.

[smashingjj]

his relationship with Freddie Mercury was very...conflicted