Has this year been a turning point?

[redbreegull]

Originally Posted by fuzzyroes

He's a product of the 90's. In the 90's, singers with little ability could become famous... In no other era would a guy like Billy Corgan or Mark McGrath become famous... I think maybe that's why Smashing Pumpkins have been showcasing McGrath in their live shows and music videos.

They share that trait.

that's obviously not true, there have been technically bad singers in other eras than the 90s. ever hear of bob dylan or neil young?

[Mals Marola]

Calling Bill a "shitty singer" is pretty short-sighted, tbh. He's golden on the albums & acoustic performances, it waa really the main shows where he had to scream & screech basically everything just to get a leg up on the music, frankly it was the most "punk rock" thing about them and if you weren't in it for that kind of energy you weren't going to like it. Personally though, I fucking loved it, especially around the Siamese Dream era I think it just gave an alternate, more off-the-rails approach to all the songs and really like listening to some of the '93/'94 era performances because of it. They're not all great but when they were good live, it was insane

[Razor Star]

Originally Posted by redbreegull

that's obviously not true, there have been technically bad singers in other eras than the 90s. ever hear of bob dylan or neil young?

Totally. Rock and pop is strewn with weird, distinctive voices, especially British ones: Robert Smith, Morrissey, Johnny Rotten, Mark E Smith, Shane McGowan, even John Lennon had a fairly odd voice. None of them were technical singers (or women. I can't think of any women but there must be some.)

[Mals Marola]

and yes, I think this year is something of a turning point. Solara is a nothing song and Silvery is ok but as far as the band as a whole and the whole "vibe" surrounding it, it's certainly a great deal less depressing than it was about a decade ago!

[fuzzyroes]

Originally Posted by redbreegull

that's obviously not true, there have been technically bad singers in other eras than the 90s. ever hear of bob dylan or neil young?

Dylan sure, but Neil Young is a helluva lot better singer than Corgan

[fuzzyroes]

Originally Posted by Mals Marola

it's certainly a great deal less depressing than it was about a decade ago!

I was more emotionally excited and invested in the Zeitgeist era. I don't really think anything about this current era has eclipsed it yet aside from Iha partaking.

[eviltimeban]

I don't care what he does live, and I wasn't really referencing that. I wasn't really referencing the screaming either. I was more talking about the "shoegaze" voice, that soft voice he employed so well as a great contrast to the loud guitars.

Maybe that'll come back if Shiny 2 is shoegaze like he suggested.

And anyway, regardless of voices changing, he sings like this *by choice* - he admitted as much on the Q&A, saying that he can sing the old way if he wants, and sometimes does "for a laugh". And there's that live video of Tristessa where it could be 1991 Billy singing it, he does it perfectly.

I could've listened to him singing anything between 1991 - 1994. Now, I can just about tolerate him singing one thing. Solara and SS are potentially good songs ruined by the vocal approach.

So when he stops the vibrato, starts singing softly again, and pushes his voice down in the mix a bit - that's a turning point.

[fuzzyroes]

I'm watching the pro-shot Seattle show... His voice sounds pretty listless. Band sounds great otherwise.

[Mals Marola]

Originally Posted by fuzzyroes

I was more emotionally excited and invested in the Zeitgeist era. I don't really think anything about this current era has eclipsed it yet aside from Iha partaking.

the era immediately following Zeitgeist & the 20th anniversary tour is what I was really talking about. Jimmy leaving and the few years after

[Zer0 Hour]

Originally Posted by Mals Marola

Calling Bill a "shitty singer" is pretty short-sighted, tbh. He's golden on the albums & acoustic performances, it waa really the main shows where he had to scream & screech basically everything just to get a leg up on the music, frankly it was the most "punk rock" thing about them and if you weren't in it for that kind of energy you weren't going to like it. Personally though, I fucking loved it, especially around the Siamese Dream era I think it just gave an alternate, more off-the-rails approach to all the songs and really like listening to some of the '93/'94 era performances because of it. They're not all great but when they were good live, it was insane

Yeah, as much as I shit on Billy, I'd never call him a shitty singer overall. Yes, his voice has made me cringe at times ("THAAAAARE YOU WAAAAAH, AS YOU AAAALWAAYS WAAAAHHH!") but more often than not, I love his voice because it's so distinctive. Literally NO other singer sounds like that unless they're trying to imitate him. I realize it's not everyone's cup of tea and many of his contemporaries (Cornell, Weiland, etc.) were more technically talented vocalists, but his voice is iconic nonetheless.

[MonumentsRocks]

Originally Posted by Razor Star

Totally. Rock and pop is strewn with weird, distinctive voices, especially British ones: Robert Smith, Morrissey, Johnny Rotten, Mark E Smith, Shane McGowan, even John Lennon had a fairly odd voice. None of them were technical singers (or women. I can't think of any women but there must be some.)

Their real talent in that regard was figuring out how to use their strange voice in a way that is/was pleasant. Most people with strange voices realize they sound funny and give up, but a huge ego like Billy Corgan isn't going to let someone else take the spot light, so he figured out a musical style that plays to his nasal voice. Then they become identifiable, nobody else can quite do what they do, and they get mad rich. It's the pop stars with generic, choir voices who seem to disappear quickly, because they might have a good song or two, but they lack character, so people don't become invested in them. If we like someone, they can release a pretty crappy song, but we like their voice so we'll tolerate it.

In terms of "technical" singing, I don't think singers take that to mean sounding generic, it just means not blowing out your vocal chords so that you won't go hoarse, sing inconsistently, and possibly have to have surgery later in life. Of course, when people learn how to do everything "proper", they tend to end up sounding generic, but that's wasn't necessarily the goal. Similar to the idea of "proper screaming", the onus is on singers to find a way to make interesting sounds in a way that doesn't also wreck their vocal chords.

[incubator]

this year has been "encouraging" / "promising". it's a turning point when they start releasing and touring legit good new material

[johncg]

Every single time Billy has started a new phase and gained a little momentum I have thought he was reaching a turning point. And every single time he has fucked it up.

Examples: Zwan, SP 2.0, Teargarden/Mike Burns era, etc.

Sooner or later he’s going to revert back to “they’re just assholes” mode or appear on a KKK podcast or do an 8-hour interpretive performance of the Iliad in his boxer shorts. It’s just inevitable.

[FoolofaTook]

lol @ 8 hours interpretive performance of the ILIAD in boxers

lol

[FoolofaTook]

speaking of b0llzeboob's vocals, i was listening to that concert from 97 or 98, the belfort one, and goddamn he was AWFUL. but it didn't matter. because that terrible nasal whine was infused with passion and earnestness and drive.

now i think he sounds a lot better, technically, but he has the zeal of an android.

[johncg]

I edited to fix the spelling. Thank you, Bates-y boy.

[Zer0 Hour]

Billy strikes me more as a briefs kinda guy.

[johncg]

Definitely briefs! Conservative, full coverage.

[Kahlo]

ON NOES INDIFFERENCE HAS OVERTAKEN POSITIVITY

HATEPHORIA - > MEHPHORIA

[FoolofaTook]

Originally Posted by johncg

I edited to fix the spelling. Thank you, Bates-y boy.

i didn't even notice. i just put it in all caps because it's so epic. what did you do, double the l's?

[johncg]

Originally Posted by FoolofaTook

i didn't even notice. i just put it in all caps because it's so epic. what did you do, double the l's?

Damn. I should have kept my mouth shut.

[johncg]

This is what happens when you give a creative person with a big ego too much freedom (see also “Chinese Democracy”):

http://www.madamezuzus.com/siddartha...-vinyl-package

PS it comes with a free WPC hat

[myosis]

Originally Posted by fuzzyroes

Dylan sure, but Neil Young is a helluva lot better singer than Corgan

dylan was too

[myosis]

by the way dylan still sings live on his studio records

[redbreegull]

Originally Posted by myosis

dylan was too

I disagree with this hardcore. I'll give it to vintage Neil Young, but Billy Corgan was a much better singer in his prime than Dylan

[myosis]

this reminds me when isle was arguing that corgan has experimented a lot with his vocal style whereas Dylan always sang the same.

[redbreegull]

well I wouldn't agree with that at all, dylan has done a bunch of different singing styles.

I think Corgan has more vocal range though and has covered more styles than Dylan. I like Dylan though, I have no issue with his voice.

[myosis]

but how has he covered more styles?

Dylan has done folk, rock, blues, country, gospel, new age "alternative", jazz crooner. i'm also talking about whole albums in completely different styles, not just a song or b-side here or there. you might say Highway 61 is proto-punk. he made up his own style on Blonde on Blonde with the weird phrasings. he's reinterpreted many of his own songs in different styles. he has sung many duets, he can go in a studio with other musicians, they pick a song, they decide what key and he'll sing the song in the right key… let's do another take, different key, different voice (in his prime), boom. done.

i'm not really sure what more ground has Corgan covered? apart from screeching at the top of his lungs?

[redbreegull]

I wouldn't say Bob Dylan has a completely different vocal style for each those genres though.

[myosis]

has corgan ever done two completely different renditions of a song like this?