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04-26-2016, 12:03 AM | #61 |
Minion of Satan
Location: An oasis of horror in a desert of boredom
Posts: 7,742
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The ball god helps you have a ball
j/k there should be a comma between ball and god Thanks, yeah that last verse has some issues, it takes a turn I've never been happy with, although I like the weary ice cream man and bored-sick sun |
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04-26-2016, 12:11 AM | #62 |
Just Hook it to My Veins!
Location: N3t4Euh Haus
Posts: 32,749
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it's 'onomatopoeia' by the way
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04-26-2016, 12:34 AM | #63 | |
Banned
Location: stay, far, away
Posts: 8,986
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ay, Fulltoke.
yes, indeed. I'm trippin, but nevertheless -- Words translate the meaning we see. Quote:
I agree, but...for instance: When's the last dream you had where all you saw were words go by describing its meaning? |
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04-26-2016, 01:28 AM | #64 |
BOTTLEG ILLEGAL
Location: I'm faced with so many changes that I just might change my face
Posts: 32,800
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Well we obviously don't need words to think. Babies think and other animals think. However, language greatly shapes our thoughts - concepts are much easier to think of when they already have names. Without language it would be hard to have extremely complex concepts that rely on other concepts, or at least it'd be hard to explain them to other people, which might as well be the same thing in the end.
I don't see how the dream question has to do with how powerful words are or how enslaved we are to them? |
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04-26-2016, 11:23 AM | #65 |
Just Hook it to My Veins!
Location: N3t4Euh Haus
Posts: 32,749
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Correct my layman's understanding if it is incorrect, but don't languages actually build frameworks through which we think, i.e. language plays a more active role in our conceptualization of the universe than just providing names for objects?
So a rose by any other name intuitively makes sense but it's kind of a pre-scientific idea of language. |
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04-26-2016, 01:59 PM | #66 |
Minion of Satan
Location: Banned
Posts: 8,851
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I'm no expert, but I believe Chomsky thinks that language is an adaptation that developed because of how it allows for more complex abstract thought, which I guess would translate to being able to think about and manipulate the environment better. It didn't develop as an adaptation for communication, in his view, but we started using it for that, so it's more of an exaptation. I think he thinks this because human language isn't just a more developed version of other communication mechanisms other animals have, it's a completely derived trait in humans.
Pinker disagrees with him about it not being an adaptation selected for due to its utility in communication, though. Pinker's view is that it developed because of the cooperative benefit language brings. Essentially, "you tell me where the berries are, I tell you where the fish is." |
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04-26-2016, 02:34 PM | #67 |
Minion of Satan
Location: An oasis of horror in a desert of boredom
Posts: 7,742
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I've always had a soft spot for unconventional, "shitty" singers who are able to compensate with raw emotion and/or interesting lyrics. Ozzy, Bill Corgan, John Hiatt to name a few. Sometimes people play me stuff and go "oh but listen to his/her voice, what pipes!" but I can't feel it. Singers with "great voices" are about as interesting to me as guitarists who play obscure scales at lightning speed for the pure fuck of it.
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04-26-2016, 09:20 PM | #68 | ||
BOTTLEG ILLEGAL
Location: I'm faced with so many changes that I just might change my face
Posts: 32,800
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Quote:
I mean there are a lot of ways to look at it and this is just one. Quote:
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04-26-2016, 09:24 PM | #69 |
BOTTLEG ILLEGAL
Location: I'm faced with so many changes that I just might change my face
Posts: 32,800
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i'm actually having a test on this on friday. not the language part but the morality/consciousness/spirituality aspects of evolution and theory of mind
scientists are split on this stuff, for what it's worth. |
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04-27-2016, 04:50 AM | #70 |
Apocalyptic Poster
Posts: 1,131
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As far as I'm aware, Chomsky doesn't make any hard claims about the origins of the so-called "language faculty" - obviously it must have evolved somehow, but this isn't what he set out to study. He just assumes that it is there (which, given a loose enough definition, is true by default, but he ends up assigning it more properties than I'm comfortable with without evidence). Then he claims to model this faculty scientifically, but what he actually does is create generative models for grammar (i.e. a system that can correctly produce grammatical utterances while failing to produce ungrammatical ones). Chomsky's work is far away from being scientifically sound if we think of linguistics as a kind of psychology of language (as he does).
Anyway, this is just a personal anecdote, but it seems to me that most of my thinking isn't done in English or Portuguese. A lot of it is done through a kind of visual/spacial manipulation of symbols that stand for general ideas, and it's only when I have to detail those ideas that I switch to a natural language. |
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04-27-2016, 10:41 AM | #71 | |
Minion of Satan
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 5,595
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Quote:
Quality over quantity is fine. Saying the most out of the least is definitely an asset. Please excuse the typo. Thanks! |
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04-27-2016, 10:54 AM | #72 | ||
Minion of Satan
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 5,595
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Quote:
But as I said before, if you are operating in full confidence without any notion of artistic corruption, then those people will eventually find you. Quote:
1) You shouldn't ask anyone to do anything. it simply exists, and it's up to them to experience it or not. In that mindset, you are completely free to create 100% without the worry of rejection (if that's the worry). 2) Personally, I make music I myself would want to hear or would find interesting. So yeah, the stranger--who is thus me--would be interested. Obviously, this produces a smaller yield, which could be a drawback if that's your goal. |
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