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Old 06-04-2014, 08:07 PM   #91
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It's an offhand statement...is that what you were swearing about?

You're way too invested in the words "indie" and "hipster"

 
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Old 06-04-2014, 09:12 PM   #92
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you are ignorant

 
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Old 06-04-2014, 09:14 PM   #93
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definitely not an offhand statement , you joined in on a conversion about which you know very little

 
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Old 06-04-2014, 09:27 PM   #94
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I joined a thread about Lenny Kravitz and Oasis to share my opinion about them...I know a fair bit about both of them, having bought albums by both of them. I bought two Lenny Kravitz albums actually!

And I learned classical piano for 9 years - practice & theory, including the study of melody and dissonance.

I sat my theory exams as a young girl in university lecture theatres, stopped at Grade 5 (Royal Schools of Music) because that was all I needed to go on with my practical exams in piano performance (also Royal Schools of Music).

I sat Grade 5 theory as an 11 year old. Part of the exam was to write a coherent melody, complete with passing notes, appropriate progression through dominant & subdominant and ending on the tonic. I also had to demonstrate that I understood cadences, sonata form (so motifs, recapitulation etc.)

I also studied music performance, composition, theory & history at high school until what was then sixth form which is what, junior year for the US? And then took up composition as an interest paper at uni.

So, whatever. Take it up with my many teachers if you think I don't understand music form, trends, melody, dissonance, etc. I'm just expressing what I've been taught.

If I intended to make anything other than an offhand statement about anything, ever...I sure as hell wouldn't bother doing it at netphoria. It's a forum at a smashing pumpkins website guise. don't go getting your panties in a twist and hitting on the caps lock over anything, k?

 
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Old 06-04-2014, 09:42 PM   #95
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escape hatch!

 
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Old 06-04-2014, 09:43 PM   #96
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I STUDIED MUSIC BLAH BLAH BLAH

it's amazing because you seem to have so little appreciation or knowledge for anything beyond what you studied and then you wave your useless degree around like it impresses anyone or makes you an expert in fucking anything

 
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Old 06-04-2014, 09:47 PM   #97
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jesus what a long-winded pile of irrelevance that was

 
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Old 06-04-2014, 09:48 PM   #98
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what you studied has nothing to do with musical trends, just saying

 
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Old 06-04-2014, 09:50 PM   #99
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well we were talking about melody and dissonance - I actually do know about that. well at least my exam certificates say I do. So maybe write an all caps letter to the Royal Schools of Music, or my high school or uni I dunno what to tell you.

i mean...this is way out there and all...but maybe...it's you who doesn't know much about melody and dissonance but is prepared to talk about them like you do?

i mean...this is just a thought, you understand

 
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Old 06-04-2014, 09:52 PM   #100
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well we were talking about melody and dissonance - I actually do know about that. well at least my exam certificates say I do. So maybe write an all caps letter to the Royal Schools of Music, or my high school or uni I dunno what to tell you.

i mean...this is way out there and all...but maybe...it's you who doesn't know much about melody and dissonance but is prepared to talk about them like you do?

i mean...this is just a thought, you understand
go ahead and refute anything that Trots said about 'melody' or 'dissonance' in this thread. be my guest.

 
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Old 06-04-2014, 09:57 PM   #101
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i dunno din****** what was yours about "dissonant" being "outside of the mainstream"

because that was stupid fucking point about the 90s in rock music
I thought he was saying here that the point about 90s rock music was that it was dissonant. Was I reading this wrong? 90s rock music was no more dissonant than any other decade.

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yeah because you know nirvana was like

not mainstream

because they got "caught up in the indie movement where everything had to be rough or dissonant sounding"
I thought he was making the point here that Nirvana was dissonant - was he not? Because Nirvana on the whole, to my ears, wrote very melodic music. Which is exactly why they crossed over, because all the little teenyboppers like me who enjoyed Lenny Kravitz and NKOTB, enjoyed Nirvana just as much.

 
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Old 06-04-2014, 10:05 PM   #102
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what has a teenager degree to do with knowing and understanding UK music mainstream trends in the 90s?

Go ahead guys, work is nauseating, maybe I can learn something from this... discussion.

 
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Old 06-04-2014, 10:08 PM   #103
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nothing - but we were talking about melody and dissonance

And technically, it was a pre-teen degree. A tween degree, I guess.

 
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Old 06-04-2014, 10:12 PM   #104
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No idea why I was so damn late to the Deerhunter party, now they are one of my favorites. But the only upcoming date I know of is Roskilde.
i just saw that the future of the left was confirmed for that, sounds awesome to me already

 
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Old 06-04-2014, 10:17 PM   #105
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My bad, you aren't talking about this, for whatever obscure reason
it's about dissonance and Nirvana now?

Ohkay.

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Definitely maybe and what's the story morning glory are pretty solid too, even if not to people's tastes.

It wasn't just nostalgia - if anything they just didn't get caught up in the indie movement where everything had to be rough or dissonant sounding lest it be called "mainstream"

 
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Old 06-04-2014, 10:44 PM   #106
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Yeah - I reckon What's the Story Morning Glory & Mama Said are both solid albums, musically - both of them unapologetically melodic - which people probably write off as being unoriginal or boring because things that are easy to listen to aren't very challenging or interesting to some people - some of us are actually pretty interested in that kind of songwriting. Myself for example...and I think both of those albums have some great songwriting moments in them - great tunes, great arrangement.

The trend at the time, as I understand it, in punk circles, was music that was anti-establishment - so it had the opposite goal; to break out of conventional song writing forms and chord progressions; to explore dissonance - this music was made independently of what the larger studios were funding, because studio execs knew it didn't fit the pop formula closely enough to sell well. There were a few breakthroughs in the early nineties - Nirvana, Blind Melon, Pearl Jam, the Smashing Pumpkins, etc. - these bands enjoyed global success that rivalled Michael Jackson and Mariah Carey in the English speaking world. Although their music contained the some of the dissonance that was characteristic of the punk scene before the break happened, they were far and away the most melodic punk bands of their time, and all of their breakthrough records were polished and arranged by producers who prepped their music for a pop market. Having said that, the hair metal/heavy metal of the 80s groomed the ears of the early 90s punk/pop break. Bands like Metallics for example, were already enjoying success, and their use of the Ionian/Locrian/Lydian/Phrygian modes is arguably far more dissonant to many ears than the singles that made Nirvana famous.

I think we have to separate the concepts of dissonance from low-fi, distortion & free form music making.

To me something is dissonant if it lacks resolution. Some dissonance is normal in music and very satisfying when it is resolved - in western music it is a near universally deployed composition strategy.

It's also interesting to note that many contemporary orchestral composers were also experimenting with dissonance in the twentieth century - and pushing the boundaries of melody and harmony far more than Nirvana, or any of the punk I've heard. So it's against that bigger picture that I consider it nearly laughable to call Nirvana dissonant.

Dissonant music has never been popular - the very fact that Nirvana was popular contradicts, in my (tween degree-d) opinion, the idea that they were dissonant, or that 90s mainstream rock was dissonant.

A lot of independently made punk was far more dissonant, in that the music didn't resemble the song structures an average pop radio listener would recognise. But that wasn't the case with grunge. And the kids I met in Indianapolis, New York & Chicago (in 1999), definitely had the goal of sounding dissonant and producing music that was original at all costs, and hopefully only popular within the college graduate/working in bars & cafes for day jobs, recording at home, performing in basements and seedy dives kind of crowd that they spent all their time hanging out with. Lenny Kravitz with his Burt Bacharach style ballads was seen as a goof - to be selling well in the same market place as Lenny meant that your music had to be as goofy as his. There was a kind of snobbery about it.

I think this is the same thing that Billy has talked about a lot....it isn't new info...

 
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Old 06-04-2014, 10:45 PM   #107
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See, this is why I don't bother being serious at Netphoria. Because it takes an hour of my life I'll never get back and now wait for the

tl;dr

bullshit

you're deluded

god you're so fucking stupid

 
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Old 06-04-2014, 10:55 PM   #108
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Where I can't follow is why you see such a close connection between the success of Nirvana, punk, and the UK 90s mainstream, specifically Oasis.

That the US, the UK and Australia/NZ are English speaking countries is (for me) not enough to lump the 90s trends all together and pretend there was one universal rule no matter the cultural background.

 
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Old 06-04-2014, 11:12 PM   #109
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ohhhhh ok

Well growing up in NZ and living in Aus, it seemed very similar to the US - the music scene I mean. More electronica - that came from the UK and Europe - Kruder and Dorfmeister & Herbalizer were big in the 90s in NZ, on uni radio.

England I can't speak for, the music scene there seems to have been far more diverse and maybe regional? Portishead, Massive Attack, etc. were big - there was a sort of Bristol sound explosion wasn't there? And that grew out of an independent music scene - little labels like Ninja Tune...trip-hop stuff. That was big in NZ too. I guess my comment about Oasis is along the same lines though - they didn't get caught up in trying to do something different - their focus was on conventional song writing, but just because they weren't innovative doesn't mean they were popular just because they sounded like another band, or like another era. In my opinion their songwriting was worth listening to because it had its own merits and one of those merits was writing good, listenable, conventional songs.

 
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Old 06-05-2014, 12:08 AM   #110
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nah oasis was a good pop band with memorable hooks and a lived in, familiar but ultimately lush and identifiable sound.

i don't think you could hear oasis and mistake them for someone else. really, they have their own trademark. that's enough.

i think assumptions are made of indie music fans/musicians that they HAVE TO HAVE THE MOST INNOVATIVE ORIGINAL THING EVER in fact it's kind of the opposite. or that is something that is of penultimate importance. it's not.

it's not like coldplay where you hear them and it sounds like the most by-the-numbers dreck churned out almost as if it was created by an algorithm to be banal popular arena rock

Last edited by Trotskilicious : 06-05-2014 at 01:22 AM.

 
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Old 06-05-2014, 12:39 AM   #111
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I'm home sick again. Sick and grumpy. Argh.

 
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Old 06-05-2014, 12:40 AM   #112
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nah oasis was a good pop band with memorable hooks and a lived in, familiar but ultimately lush and identifiable sound.

i don't think you could hear oasis and go "who is this?" or mistake them for someone else. really, they have their own trademark. that's enough.

i think assumptions are made of indie music fans/musicians that they HAVE TO HAVE THE MOST INNOVATIVE ORIGINAL THING EVER in fact it's kind of the opposite. or that is something that is of penultimate importance. it's not.

it's not like coldplay where you hear them and it sounds like the most by-the-numbers dreck churned out almost as if it was created by an algorithm to be banal popular arena rock
agreed. you could kill coldplay with a fire and nobody would know it had happened.

 
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Old 06-05-2014, 12:50 AM   #113
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chris martin probably has the rights to his hologram already planned out in his will

 
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Old 06-05-2014, 12:50 AM   #114
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anyone who could love gwenyth paltrow should be put to death by guillotine

i mean right next to her obvs.

 
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Old 06-05-2014, 02:45 AM   #115
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i've studied musical trends for over fifteen years

 
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