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Old 12-29-2016, 06:47 PM   #1
Ihaguitar
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Default dynamic range of various SP albums

http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/li...umpkins&album=

Interesting list showing the dynamic range of different masterings of albums. Look at Zeitgeist - it's DR5 with a high and low of DR6 and DR4. No wonder it sounds so shit.

The 24bit releases of Gish, Siamese Dream and Pisces are disappointing too.

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Old 12-29-2016, 06:57 PM   #2
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stand inside your love 666

 
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Old 12-29-2016, 07:20 PM   #3
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THE GROOVER

 
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Old 12-29-2016, 07:27 PM   #4
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Ur mothers releases are disappointing.

 
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Old 12-29-2016, 08:14 PM   #5
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There are flaws in how these numbers are calculated by the software.

Most people who actually know what they are talking about frown upon people judging dynamic range by numbers spit out by a flawed piece of software.

 
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Old 12-29-2016, 09:34 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ihaguitar View Post
http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/li...umpkins&album=

Interesting list showing the dynamic range of different masterings of albums. Look at Zeitgeist - it's DR5 with a high and low of DR6 and DR4. No wonder it sounds so shit.

The 24bit releases of Gish, Siamese Dream and Pisces are disappointing too.
Are the 24bit versions of these records available again? I'd only seen MELLON COLLIE in this format now.

 
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Old 12-29-2016, 09:55 PM   #7
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I dunno about official channels but they are still floating around out there.

 
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Old 12-30-2016, 05:22 AM   #8
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Yeah they're on torrent sites.

 
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Old 12-30-2016, 05:23 AM   #9
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There are flaws in how these numbers are calculated by the software.

Most people who actually know what they are talking about frown upon people judging dynamic range by numbers spit out by a flawed piece of software.
Maybe there are flaws, can you explain them? Surely they have some merit? For example why are the 24bit ones so poor?

 
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Old 12-30-2016, 06:02 AM   #10
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Maybe there are flaws, can you explain them? Surely they have some merit? For example why are the 24bit ones so poor?
The dynamic range comes from the mastering so the resolution of the 24bit files makes no impact if the mastering is compressed in the first place. The CDs of the reissues and the hi-res files are exactly the same mastering.

 
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Old 12-30-2016, 06:22 AM   #11
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The dynamic range comes from the mastering so the resolution of the 24bit files makes no impact if the mastering is compressed in the first place. The CDs of the reissues and the hi-res files are exactly the same mastering.

I know it comes from the mastering, I just think it's nuts to use the same level of compression on 24bit. Basically the original CDs and vinyl are the best versions.

 
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Old 12-30-2016, 06:25 AM   #12
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I want to hear Steve Hoffman mastered versions of all the albums.

 
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Old 12-30-2016, 10:47 AM   #13
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I found this site through other sources and did some simple testing of my own. Mostly just to compare the various versions. I ended up testing original/reissue CD’s and vinyl records as well as the 24bit downloads. To my ears the best source is definitely the 24bit downloads. The clarity and depth is instantly noticeable to me. My set up isn’t anything pro-level by any means but it instantly comes through as the best choice in my opinion.

 
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Old 12-30-2016, 11:40 AM   #14
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I found this site through other sources and did some simple testing of my own. Mostly just to compare the various versions. I ended up testing original/reissue CD’s and vinyl records as well as the 24bit downloads. To my ears the best source is definitely the 24bit downloads. The clarity and depth is instantly noticeable to me. My set up isn’t anything pro-level by any means but it instantly comes through as the best choice in my opinion.
The clarity you are hearing is probably due to the compression making the quieter sounds louder. This means they are more easily heard, but they are not supposed to be so obvious. Extended listening will be tiring as there is less dynamic range to the music and everything is very "in your face".

 
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Old 12-30-2016, 12:13 PM   #15
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I find stolen, mislabeled mp3s played at top volume thru shitty speakers in a car going nowhere fast to b the finest aural experience of SP

 
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Old 12-30-2016, 12:19 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Ihaguitar View Post
The clarity you are hearing is probably due to the compression making the quieter sounds louder. This means they are more easily heard, but they are not supposed to be so obvious. Extended listening will be tiring as there is less dynamic range to the music and everything is very "in your face".
I was under the impression that dynamic range basically translates to the field of depth in sound. The loudest vs quietest sounds and the ability to distinguish them. I feel that I am more easily able to discern quieter sounds and inflections despite the apparent volume of other loud instruments. It’s as if they’re no longer competing for that same headspace.

 
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Old 12-30-2016, 12:23 PM   #17
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I was under the impression that dynamic range basically translates to the field of depth in sound. The loudest vs quietest sounds and the ability to distinguish them. I feel that I am more easily able to discern quieter sounds and inflections despite the apparent volume of other loud instruments. It’s as if they’re no longer competing for that same headspace.
if dynamic range is really low then quiet sounds will be brought out. It will sound very busy though as all the sounds are competing with each other. Sounds impressive on a short listen but it doesnt stand up to repeat listening like something with more dynamic range would as it doesnt sound as natural.

 
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Old 12-30-2016, 12:34 PM   #18
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Maybe there are flaws, can you explain them? Surely they have some merit? For example why are the 24bit ones so poor?
Really just go to hydrogen audio, the Steve Hoffman forums, and Youtube.

There are literally endless threads about how these numbers are derived and how boiling "dynamic range" down to one number is a fools errand.

By the way pro tip, this is not actually measuring dynamic range and when most people are talking about "dynamic range" they aren't actually talking about dynamic range.

This thread is about using it to compare vinyl but in 1000+ posts tons of info is shared.

There is months worth of reading out there if you actually want to educate yourself and not just throw out incorrect terms, numbers, and buzzwords.

Trust me I've been there. I loved going around throwing around terms like brickwalled until I made the mistake of doing it in front of some famous old school recording engineers who ripped me a new asshole.

http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/thread...-vinyl.330706/

 
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Old 12-30-2016, 12:36 PM   #19
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My hearing is bad enough that I don't care about dynamic ranges, 24 bit versions or things like that.

 
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Old 12-30-2016, 12:38 PM   #20
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If I remember correctly is was Bob Ludwig, who I pissed off.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Ludwig

 
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Old 12-30-2016, 12:41 PM   #21
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Trust me I've been there. I loved going around throwing around terms like brickwalled until I made the mistake of doing it in front of some famous old school recording engineers who ripped me a new asshole.
What were you assigning the term “brickwalled” to mean? To me that one seems fairly self-evident.

 
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Old 12-30-2016, 02:21 PM   #22
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Really just go to hydrogen audio, the Steve Hoffman forums, and Youtube.

There are literally endless threads about how these numbers are derived and how boiling "dynamic range" down to one number is a fools errand.

By the way pro tip, this is not actually measuring dynamic range and when most people are talking about "dynamic range" they aren't actually talking about dynamic range.

This thread is about using it to compare vinyl but in 1000+ posts tons of info is shared.

There is months worth of reading out there if you actually want to educate yourself and not just throw out incorrect terms, numbers, and buzzwords.

Trust me I've been there. I loved going around throwing around terms like brickwalled until I made the mistake of doing it in front of some famous old school recording engineers who ripped me a new asshole.

http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/thread...-vinyl.330706/

I dont think the DR values are meaningless. They dont tell the whole story but if you look at albums that sound badly compressed and compare to ones that sound open and dynamic the DR numbers seem to follow the correct trend.

 
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Old 12-30-2016, 02:24 PM   #23
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What were you assigning the term “brickwalled” to mean? To me that one seems fairly self-evident.
Brickwalled is when it is forced to clip digitally. That means some of the peaks in the signal are chopped off abruptly as if they have hit a brick wall as they are forced to go above the max level permitted by the format (16 bit CD, or whatever). It isnt actually anything to do with compression as you can compress a signal to the max but keep all the peaks well below the brickwall level. You can brickwall an otherwise perfectly nice signal.

That is what I understand anyway. I believe the Zwan album was intentionally brickwalled by Billy.

 
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Old 12-30-2016, 10:36 PM   #24
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it's really just referring to compressing & limiting the master in such a way that the waveform essentially becomes a big rectangle, when you're looking at the track as a whole at least

 
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Old 12-31-2016, 07:22 AM   #25
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I want to hear Steve Hoffman mastered versions of all the albums.
You just pissed off BOB LUDWIG too. He did the remastering of all the original records of the SMASHING PUMPKINS.
HOWIE WEINBERG had done the mastering in the nineties, working then as an employee of BOB LUDWIG. He did the mastering now of the bonus tracks of the reissues in his studio.

 
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Old 12-31-2016, 07:53 AM   #26
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What about Howie Mandel?

 
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Old 12-31-2016, 07:54 AM   #27
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Lol he's bald too

 
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Old 12-31-2016, 08:48 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Corgan's Bluff View Post
You just pissed off BOB LUDWIG too. He did the remastering of all the original records of the SMASHING PUMPKINS.
HOWIE WEINBERG had done the mastering in the nineties, working then as an employee of BOB LUDWIG. He did the mastering now of the bonus tracks of the reissues in his studio.
Really? What is his explaination for the lower DR values?

 
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Old 12-31-2016, 10:12 AM   #29
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Really just go to hydrogen audio, the Steve Hoffman forums, and Youtube.

There are literally endless threads about how these numbers are derived and how boiling "dynamic range" down to one number is a fools errand.

By the way pro tip, this is not actually measuring dynamic range and when most people are talking about "dynamic range" they aren't actually talking about dynamic range.

This thread is about using it to compare vinyl but in 1000+ posts tons of info is shared.

There is months worth of reading out there if you actually want to educate yourself and not just throw out incorrect terms, numbers, and buzzwords.

Trust me I've been there. I loved going around throwing around terms like brickwalled until I made the mistake of doing it in front of some famous old school recording engineers who ripped me a new asshole.

http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/thread...-vinyl.330706/

That thread was about comparing DR values of CDs against vinyl. It does not say you shouldnt compare different CD masterings in this way.

Here is a hydrogen audio thread:

https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php/topic,105173.0.html

 
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Old 12-31-2016, 01:27 PM   #30
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I'll just add that the MCIS remaster is an improvement. Can anyone link to any comments Bob Ludwig has made about these albums?

 
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