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Old 08-31-2019, 08:12 PM   #31
fuzzyroes
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Originally Posted by AveryLoren View Post
Eh, I sort of side with Billy. You're in the biggest band you could ever hope to be in. Like even in the days of the early 2010's touring on the Pumpkins level is rare for bands, even great bands. What does Nicole and Bammy do? They wanna jam in the slums with their buddies. Look at Jeff, he didn't stray and is still on the mighty SP's payroll to this day.
That's exactly it. Maybe someone can find this in the archives, but I remember when Mike was announcing his tour I started a thread debating whether he and Nicole were using Smashing Pumpkins as a stepping stone. It's funny cause shortly after the tour was abruptly canceled (I wonder if Billy was reading the thread and became enraged haha). It's not like these guys were just jamming, having some fun with other people... They were reppin' and promoting their bands hard. It's just a terrible look, especially considering what an egomaniac Billy Corgan is known to be.

I have no idea what they were thinking. Starting other bands can often be a point of conflict with small local bands. The concern is always "what? You're not artistically fulfilled enough in this band? If you need to burn more energy, why don't you direct more energy into this group?" And lord knows it wasn't as if Byrne was acing his parts in the Pumpkins, not even close. So this idea that he was gonna start going on tour with a new band, it's absurd. If I was Billy, I would have put the kibosh on it too.

I really think the urge for Mike and Nicole to be in and promoting other bands was one of the key breaking points as far as Corgan was concerned... Especially after the failure of the Oceania arena tour. Any sane person in Billy's situation had to have been thinking "to hell with these guys".

 
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Old 08-31-2019, 08:20 PM   #32
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And as far as Mike went, I don't think that the fact that his band was pretentious and "hipster" did him any favors in the eyes of Billy. It's forgotten now by many, but at that time the whole hipster movement was something Billy was always raging and going off about



He had to have been thinking "look at this fucking idiot, and I let him join my iconic band".

 
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Old 08-31-2019, 08:25 PM   #33
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I really think the urge for Mike and Nicole to be in and promoting other bands was one of the key breaking points as far as Corgan was concerned... Especially after the failure of the Oceania arena tour. Any sane person in Billy's situation had to have been thinking "to hell with these guys".
One last thing (not trying to shit-post to send Funbags and Paranoid spiraling), I think it's no coincidence that Jeff, the one guy to never be in any other bands while in the Pumpkins, is the one guy remaining from the era.

 
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Old 08-31-2019, 08:30 PM   #34
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I swear billy hired a 19 year old nobody to just piss jimmy off.. if there was any diabolical intent on his side. Mike was just too starstruck to know better.
heh I actually agree with you here. "Jimmy thinks he's so important and irreplaceable? Wait till he gets a load of this"

 
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Old 08-31-2019, 11:39 PM   #35
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were using Smashing Pumpkins as a stepping stone.
As someone who has been in dozens of bands in the Oklahoma music scene (yes, we actually had a major scene here) for twenty years this is exactly the issue. They had the opportunity of a lifetime and blew it.

 
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Old 09-01-2019, 12:21 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by f*******s View Post
but I remember when Mike was announcing his tour I started a thread debating whether he and Nicole were using Smashing Pumpkins as a stepping stone.

I have no idea what they were thinking. Starting other bands can often be a point of conflict with small local bands. The concern is always "what? You're not artistically fulfilled enough in this band? If you need to burn more energy, why don't you direct more energy into this group?" And lord knows it wasn't as if Byrne was acing his parts in the Pumpkins, not even close. So this idea that he was gonna start going on tour with a new band, it's absurd. If I was Billy, I would have put the kibosh on it too.

I really think the urge for Mike and Nicole to be in and promoting other bands was one of the key breaking points as far as Corgan was concerned... Especially after the failure of the Oceania arena tour. Any sane person in Billy's situation had to have been thinking "to hell with these guys".
I 100% believe that Meghan Toohey and Nicole were intentionally using SP as a platform for their own band rather than an artistic outlet. Mike just wanted to hang out with his buddies and play math rock.

I feel bad for how Mike was expected to both be a lil indie rock drummer AND play like Jimmy on the old stuff.

 
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Old 09-01-2019, 12:35 AM   #37
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Just realized it's been exactly 10 years since Mike and Billy first played together in those Spirits In The Sky shows. Although I have zero nostalgia for the Teargarden/Byrne era, I do remember I was still really excited for The Pumpkins & Billy in mid-late 2009. Sure Jimmy had just left, but at the time the perception was that they had parted on amicable terms so it didn't seem out of the question he would return, better than ever in the not too distant future, and Billy was going through his mid life crisis hippie spiritual phase which I'll admit, I really liked along with the SitS bootlegs that were released.
I just remember thinking at the time that the mighty SP going to be my favourite band forever and ever and ever.
I was 17

Then 2010 happened...

 
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Old 09-01-2019, 01:41 AM   #38
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Glad to see people are still defending sociopath Bill’s destruction of a kid’s career, nice
You don’t get it. HE WAS NEVER GOING TO HAVE A CAREER OTHERWISE. So would he have been better off struggling to play crummy math rock shit or get to be in a large known band and travel the world for a few years, then have that taken away from him? I guess that’s up for debate.

 
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Old 09-01-2019, 02:43 AM   #39
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It's not like these guys were just jamming, having some fun with other people... They were reppin' and promoting their bands hard. It's just a terrible look, especially considering what an egomaniac Billy Corgan is known to be.

I have no idea what they were thinking.
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Originally Posted by fuzzyroes View Post
I really think the urge for Mike and Nicole to be in and promoting other bands was one of the key breaking points as far as Corgan was concerned... Especially after the failure of the Oceania arena tour. Any sane person in Billy's situation had to have been thinking "to hell with these guys".

Exactly. I remember that they spoke about their bands with a lot more passion.

It felt like Smashing Pumpkins was their office job. Crazy.

 
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Old 09-01-2019, 02:49 AM   #40
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Last edited by amoergosum : 09-01-2019 at 03:11 AM.

 
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Old 09-01-2019, 03:05 AM   #41
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Billy (2014):


"Mike Byrne has taught me a lot about his generation. And watching the twitch up close, the ADD of it all, I’m starting to understand what he found boring about The Mighty SP. He wasn’t wrong. But he also wasn’t right, too.

Because the way to replace something is to best it, not join it’s shallow-pool ranks. And great musicians like MB are capable; if they are willing to stop looking into the shiny sun and wonder, quite rightly, what lies on the dark side of the moon.

Imagine this: was the deco world of the 30’s any less bright to that generation? Great art movements came, but also too the set-up for world war. How so?

Light meets shadow. See? Or shadow meets light.

And where there is glittering, yet false *illumination, we (the collective We) must destroy it by being more real, more true, more-more. It works every time IF you can pass the muster of your own oblivion; or yawn. Mix that with kinetic, electric, hyperbolic punk rock I-don’t give-a-fuck-how-you-do-it and maybe, just maybe, someone wakes the fuck up from that coma they’re in.

Repeat, generation. Repeat."

https://consequenceofsound.net/2014/...se-he-has-add/

 
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Old 09-01-2019, 03:29 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by amoergosum View Post
Billy (2014):


"Mike Byrne has taught me a lot about his generation. And watching the twitch up close, the ADD of it all, I’m starting to understand what he found boring about The Mighty SP. He wasn’t wrong. But he also wasn’t right, too.

Because the way to replace something is to best it, not join it’s shallow-pool ranks. And great musicians like MB are capable; if they are willing to stop looking into the shiny sun and wonder, quite rightly, what lies on the dark side of the moon.

Imagine this: was the deco world of the 30’s any less bright to that generation? Great art movements came, but also too the set-up for world war. How so?

Light meets shadow. See? Or shadow meets light.

And where there is glittering, yet false *illumination, we (the collective We) must destroy it by being more real, more true, more-more. It works every time IF you can pass the muster of your own oblivion; or yawn. Mix that with kinetic, electric, hyperbolic punk rock I-don’t give-a-fuck-how-you-do-it and maybe, just maybe, someone wakes the fuck up from that coma they’re in.

Repeat, generation. Repeat."

https://consequenceofsound.net/2014/...se-he-has-add/
Lol oh my god, what a fucken bufooon

 
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Old 09-01-2019, 06:47 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by amoergosum View Post
Because the way to replace something is to best it, not join it’s shallow-pool ranks. And great musicians like MB are capable; if they are willing to stop looking into the shiny sun and wonder, quite rightly, what lies on the dark side of the moon.
I wonder if he means that their side bands were just following trends rather than breaking ground like SP.

 
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Old 09-01-2019, 07:13 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by amoergosum View Post
It felt like Smashing Pumpkins was their office job. Crazy.
The part about Mike needing to cancel the Bearcubbin tour sounds so whiny. Imagine if it was a workplace cancelling his vacation time, and now his fishing buddies are pissed off because they'd booked a cabin at the lake.

It's like, dude...your job is being in an enormous rock band that you somehow managed to get into. If it was *that hard* to tell his Bearcubbin buddies that he had to cancel the tour, then what was he doing in SP?

Although I still think Billy's mistake was trying to give the Classic SP Experience without Jimmy. You could tell that Mike was basically being forced to play like Jimmy -hence all the Samurai Mike shit.

 
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Old 09-01-2019, 11:36 AM   #45
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The part about Mike needing to cancel the Bearcubbin tour sounds so whiny. Imagine if it was a workplace cancelling his vacation time, and now his fishing buddies are pissed off because they'd booked a cabin at the lake.

It's like, dude...your job is being in an enormous rock band that you somehow managed to get into. If it was *that hard* to tell his Bearcubbin buddies that he had to cancel the tour, then what was he doing in SP?

Although I still think Billy's mistake was trying to give the Classic SP Experience without Jimmy. You could tell that Mike was basically being forced to play like Jimmy -hence all the Samurai Mike shit.
I forgot about the samurai thing. God damn that was lame as shit.

 
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Old 09-01-2019, 11:44 AM   #46
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what samurai thing?

 
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Old 09-01-2019, 02:44 PM   #47
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Being in SP was Mike's office job. Can you imagine operating with Billy in any other context?

Also, WTF are you people talking about Mike and Nicole seeking exposure? In 2012, Smashing Pumpkin's wasn't trading on enough popularity to promote itself as a mainstream band, let alone propel the original projects of hired gun musicians.

Billy could've supported Mike & Nicole's projects, like a normal, decent person as opposed to a giant man-child.

 
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Old 09-01-2019, 11:53 PM   #48
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The Pumpkins were massively popular in 2012. More importantly in the context of what Nicole and Mike were used to it was like winning the lotto. Mike worked at McDonald's and Nicole was a dish washer at a Chinese restaurant.



Here Nicole is representing her band about a year into knowing Billy.

 
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Old 09-02-2019, 01:43 AM   #49
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Exactly. I remember that they spoke about their bands with a lot more passion.

It felt like Smashing Pumpkins was their office job. Crazy.
i mean yeah it's 2012 era pumpkins

figures you'd feel a lot more passion for the little band you do with friends, and put in gritty work to make them successful [setting up and tearing down gear, etc] - rather than the big SP started by a guy long before they were born

 
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Old 09-02-2019, 02:50 AM   #50
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WTF are you people talking about Mike and Nicole seeking exposure? In 2012, Smashing Pumpkin's wasn't trading on enough popularity to promote itself as a mainstream band

The Pumpkins had enough credibility to be featured in all of the top media outlets at the time. Massive tours all around the globe. Jimmy was endorsed by Yamaha, Billy by Fender. The hired guns both had endorsement deals, Nicole with Mesa Amps and Mike with Vater Percussion. Nicole and Mike had major cover features with the top bass and drum magazines. Mike even had a second interview published in Modern Drummer magazine where the first thing he talks about is Bearcubbin'!


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SP started by a guy long before they were born
Nicole would have been the target age group for the original Pumpkins run.


I had never seen this video before, it does make me feel a little sad for Mike. He shouldn't have been thrust into that world so quickly.


 
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Old 09-02-2019, 03:30 AM   #51
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what's next, a suicide joke?
I'd die for one

 
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Old 09-02-2019, 03:35 AM   #52
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The Pumpkins were massively popular in 2012. More importantly in the context of what Nicole and Mike were used to it was like winning the lotto. Mike worked at McDonald's and Nicole was a dish washer at a Chinese restaurant.



Here Nicole is representing her band about a year into knowing Billy.
Nicole played with Veruca Salt from 2006 until she got the job with the Pumpkins. There was an Ohioans hype in 2012, but both of them helped on that – specially Nicole, she was always mentioned as the highlight.

 
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Old 09-02-2019, 04:19 AM   #53
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The Pumpkins were massively popular in 2012.
If by massively popular you mean Billy used his contacts and industry muscle to get the band exposure in the usual media and radio outlets, and then toured smaller venues with a weaker version of the band. Then yes. Massively popular.

I mean, who can forget their big chart singles from 2012!?

Ummm...

 
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Old 09-02-2019, 06:26 AM   #54
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Old 09-02-2019, 06:52 AM   #55
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I should clarify: the Pumpkins were still massively popular during the years of late 2010 through late 2013.

Teargarden by Kaleidyscope produced a top 40 hit with Freak, both of the EP's charted, Oceania was #4 on Billboard 200 though technically a number one record as an independent release, The Celestials (only single issued) is a top 40 hit, they had multiple national television appearances, Oceania: Live in NYC is a platinum video release. The Oceania world tour covered nine countries, Shamrocks & Shenanigans tour that followed covered 22 countries. They were top billed for multiple festival dates. For aging rock music during the era, that is massive popularity within the context of this post topic. Of the ten concerts I personally went to they routinely sold out both show and merch. I mean, Mike was playing basements (his own admission) and Nicole was playing four to eight show tours mostly isolated to the lower west coast.

 
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Old 09-02-2019, 07:03 AM   #56
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wtf you do not need 6 months to play a full kit

 
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Old 09-02-2019, 07:08 AM   #57
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That's mike's version of Billy's school music test.

 
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Old 09-02-2019, 07:22 AM   #58
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The Pumpkins were massively popular in 2012. More importantly in the context of what Nicole and Mike were used to it was like winning the lotto. Mike worked at McDonald's and Nicole was a dish washer at a Chinese restaurant.
There is also an interview where Mike's family said that he had a scholarship to Berklee College of Music but then had this opportunity to be with SP. Looking back, he probably wishes he had gone to the school. BC, destroyer of dreams. Then again, BC also has a "I had a full scholarship I passed up" story, but in his case I think it is a Trumpian-lie-for-the-ego-to-cover-the-small-hands sort of thing.

 
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Old 09-02-2019, 08:03 AM   #59
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I should clarify: the Pumpkins were still massively popular during the years of late 2010 through late 2013.

Teargarden by Kaleidyscope produced a top 40 hit with Freak, both of the EP's charted, Oceania was #4 on Billboard 200 though technically a number one record as an independent release, The Celestials (only single issued) is a top 40 hit, they had multiple national television appearances, Oceania: Live in NYC is a platinum video release. The Oceania world tour covered nine countries, Shamrocks & Shenanigans tour that followed covered 22 countries. They were top billed for multiple festival dates. For aging rock music during the era, that is massive popularity within the context of this post topic. Of the ten concerts I personally went to they routinely sold out both show and merch. I mean, Mike was playing basements (his own admission) and Nicole was playing four to eight show tours mostly isolated to the lower west coast.
The Smashing Pumpkins haven’t been massively popular since the last 90’s. They had some attention with Zeitgeist, but that bombed hard. 2010-2013 they weren’t even slightly popular, let alone massively so. They were playing medium venues, not arenas.

 
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Old 09-02-2019, 08:08 AM   #60
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No one's gonna asplain the samurai thing to me?

 
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