Netphoria Message Board


Go Back   Netphoria Message Board > Smashing Pumpkins Boards > Smashing Pumpkins/Billy Corgan Discussion
Register Netphoria's Amazon.com Link Members List Photo Album Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-26-2017, 12:26 AM   #181
Run To Me
Apocalyptic Poster
 
Run To Me's Avatar
 
Location: Where the frog spoils the leaf
Posts: 3,557
Default

Dudes did u know this guy jellie knows fuckton of about music?? Subtle effects even

 
Run To Me is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2017, 02:24 AM   #182
Shadaloo
Ownz
 
Shadaloo's Avatar
 
Location: put those panties back on the line and get the hell out of my yard
Posts: 594
Default

Gonna be the milquetoast moderate and suggest it's a mix of a few factors. When I saw him on the Plainsong tour in Toronto he had moments where the old voice crept through here and there, and I remember being kind of pleasantly surprised but there were dropped consonants throughout the night. He can't and won't ever sing the way he used to again.

This is also the guy who's got a history of doing multiple vocal takes, taking preferred snippets of syllables and blending them together to create the sound he wants. I don't doubt that what we hear on LPs is what he wants us to hear.

He could sound a bit closer to what we'd define as the classic voice. But he won't, partly because that's not what he wants to sound like and partially because he can't pull it off anymore.

 
Shadaloo is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2017, 05:36 AM   #183
Jelly Blossom
Demi-God
 
Posts: 412
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadaloo View Post
This is also the guy who's got a history of doing multiple vocal takes, taking preferred snippets of syllables and blending them together to create the sound he wants. I don't doubt that what we hear on LPs is what he wants us to hear.
Either that or he realizes that you can only polish a turd so much before you realize it's a turd.

 
Jelly Blossom is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2017, 06:39 AM   #184
amoergosum
Apocalyptic Poster
 
amoergosum's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,829
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadaloo View Post
When I saw him on the Plainsong tour in Toronto he had moments where the old voice crept through here and there, and I remember being kind of pleasantly surprised but there were dropped consonants throughout the night. He can't and won't ever sing the way he used to again.


This vocal performance was pretty nice:

[best moment: 0:36]






Flashback:



Last edited by amoergosum : 08-26-2017 at 06:47 AM.

 
amoergosum is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2017, 11:27 AM   #185
DemonUnicorns
Ownz
 
DemonUnicorns's Avatar
 
Posts: 624
Default

I think James Iha should produce the next album

 
DemonUnicorns is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2017, 11:48 AM   #186
themadcaplaughs
Apocalyptic Poster
 
Posts: 1,526
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pinballzero View Post
LMAO
What's funny is, if you go back and read Corgan's Confessions, he talks about Rubin getting bored with the band doing endless take of "Let Me Give the World to You" and falling asleep on the sofa.

 
themadcaplaughs is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2017, 07:16 PM   #187
DemonUnicorns
Ownz
 
DemonUnicorns's Avatar
 
Posts: 624
Default

Let's dissect Billy's vocals on Pennies. Well, just the last line.

"Pennies for sale"

The "Pen-" is forced out of him, showcasing true emotion. Billy then uses his vibrato on "sale", but his voice is coming out harder and it's not so noticeable (plus the vocals are a lot lower in the mix).

This line is repeated and please note the lack of "lover". Billy will never sing like this again.

 
DemonUnicorns is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2017, 08:58 PM   #188
fuzzyroes
Socialphobic
 
fuzzyroes's Avatar
 
Posts: 14,965
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jelly Blossom View Post
The 'defense' here by reprise85 (and others have tried to give) that Billy sounds bad in the studio but good live is probably the most backasswards argument ever.
BINGO. When you hear shit live it's extremely loud and it's mixed in with the other sound sensations... Even the most washed-up singers could make for an enjoyable time in a live setting... Where the real talent shows up is on a recording and Billy just croaks away with the most grating vibrato ridden whines these days.


With that said..... I also hated the first lead single off the last album. I couldn't stand Worlds On Fire but actually came to like quite a few songs off of 'Monuments' (despite the poor vocal showing)... So I'm trying to stay positive... But I'm really not expecting much.

Last edited by fuzzyroes : 08-26-2017 at 09:12 PM.

 
fuzzyroes is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2017, 09:06 PM   #189
fuzzyroes
Socialphobic
 
fuzzyroes's Avatar
 
Posts: 14,965
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by reprise85 View Post
yeah but he didn't add them, showing that he likes how it sounds without it
Good grief Reprise... He doesn't "like" how it sounds.... It's simply the best that he can fucking offer at his age.... Of course Billy Corgan is gonna whine and moan in the media about how he's "trying to sound like that" and that he thinks "it sounds great"...

Billy's never gonna come forward rationally to simply admit that he's struggling vocally due to his old age... Haven't you ever paid attention to Billy Corgan?

 
fuzzyroes is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2017, 01:04 AM   #190
reprise85
Submortal
 
reprise85's Avatar
 
Location: Now, I'm not a professional psychologist, but I am an amateur psychologist. And I think that your spontaneous eye-watering may have something to do with your father.
Posts: 27,866
Default

He didn't add effects to his voice that would make it sound better. So he was happy without them. I'm not saying he "thinks it sounds great" (although he might), just that he clearly prefers it to be dry like that because he clearly could have made it less dry but decided not to.

I don't know how much clearer I can explain myself

 
reprise85 is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2017, 02:19 AM   #191
Jelly Blossom
Demi-God
 
Posts: 412
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzyroes View Post
Good grief Reprise... He doesn't "like" how it sounds.... It's simply the best that he can fucking offer at his age.... Of course Billy Corgan is gonna whine and moan in the media about how he's "trying to sound like that" and that he thinks "it sounds great"...
Billy's been trying to "make peace" with his voice since at least Adore.

Starting @ 5:18, these are Billy's words, not mine:

Quote:
Originally Posted by William Patrick Corgan
I think I'm trying to make peace with a lot of things, you know, one of which is my voice. I don't sing as well as I would like to...


The sad thing is, despite how bad Billy's voice sounded in the 90s it sounded golden then compared to how it sounds now. :/

 
Jelly Blossom is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2017, 08:40 AM   #192
Ram27
Minion of Satan
 
Ram27's Avatar
 
Location: mayfair mistress of the satellites
Posts: 5,526
Default

It didn't sound bad in the 90s though. Even though it wasn't technically proper, it conveyed tons of emotion, which is really the goal for an alt rock shoegaze band

it's the James Iha of voices

 
Ram27 is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2017, 01:10 PM   #193
Jelly Blossom
Demi-God
 
Posts: 412
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ram27 View Post
It didn't sound bad in the 90s though. Even though it wasn't technically proper, it conveyed tons of emotion, which is really the goal for an alt rock shoegaze band

it's the James Iha of voices
The lack of quality of Billy's voice was sticking point in the 90s too. I remember knowing people from that era who felt and/or agreed that the Pumpkins would've been a stronger act if the group had a front man who could sing and Billy focused on just playing guitar/writing music (a la Pete Townshend or Tom Scholz).

Unfortunately his voice has only gotten worse over the years. I'm sure it's from a factor of age, sheer laziness, overconfidence and ego/surrounding himself with yes-men.

Billy and Dave Mustaine are really examples of how a guy doesn't need to be even a decent singer to front an amazingly successful rock band. It's really amazing how much success they've had as singers despite each lacking the ability to sing well.

 
Jelly Blossom is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2017, 04:42 PM   #194
Mals Marola
Apocalyptic Poster
 
Mals Marola's Avatar
 
Location: The Land of Austistic O-board Rejects, Retarded in All Ways
Posts: 3,867
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jelly Blossom View Post
The lack of quality of Billy's voice was sticking point in the 90s too. I remember knowing people from that era who felt and/or agreed that the Pumpkins would've been a stronger act if the group had a front man who could sing and Billy focused on just playing guitar/writing music (a la Pete Townshend or Tom Scholz).
this is fucking stupid, tbh. Billy was the best vocalist for those songs and frankly the only one who should be singing them.

He had a mastery of "swapping roles" on stuff like Bullet or even Soma that few other big names from that period could have done. and even if they could have, they wouldn't have the personally-driven angst that drove those songs when Bill sang them anyway

these days though, i'd be more than happy to hear him write for another (preferrably female) singer. A full album of like, Natalie Imbruglia singing Corgan songs as some 20-years-later follow-up to Identify or something would probably be pretty sweet

 
Mals Marola is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2017, 06:17 PM   #195
The machine of god
Pledge
 
Posts: 202
Default

To sort out his vocal performances Billy needs a producer who cares enough to be in tune with everything that made the 90s performances great.

Adore is a pretty stunningly performed record, huge conviction, accurate but emotive diction and use of the palette. But you listen to those performances and often he's barely rising above a whisper, there are lots of breaks, particularly in the lower register and lots of rough pronunciations but net effect is compelling. Which really was always his trick, heaps of air or lots of snarl and very little in-between.

Unfortunately, Rubin doesn't appear interesting in pushing Billy on this and Billy is clearly not interesting on pushing himself on it.

Age has nothing to do with it. He hasn't lost his voice. He isn't singing challenging parts (at least not on this new track) he's just not going for that tone. It's in there if he wants to access it but that's 99% of the trick.

 
The machine of god is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2017, 06:49 PM   #196
amoergosum
Apocalyptic Poster
 
amoergosum's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,829
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The machine of god View Post
Unfortunately, Rubin doesn't appear interesting in pushing Billy on this and Billy is clearly not interesting on pushing himself on it.


 
amoergosum is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2017, 08:19 PM   #197
Forgotten Child
Apocalyptic Poster
 
Forgotten Child's Avatar
 
Location: SP, Sao Paulo - Brazil
Posts: 1,442
Default

I've read somewhere the Rubin wanted Billy to kind of sit down, play and sing his new songs with a "live" approach. I can't see how that could be a bad thing having in mind that almost every album Billy's recorded since Machina were destroyed by overproduction.

 
Forgotten Child is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2017, 10:02 PM   #198
Jelly Blossom
Demi-God
 
Posts: 412
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mals Marola View Post
this is fucking stupid, tbh. Billy was the best vocalist for those songs and frankly the only one who should be singing them.
A powerful, inflammatory statement followed by an interesting theory that ultimately holds no water.

Was Pete Townshend 'fucking stupid', as you put it, to have Roger Daltry sing a vast majority of his songs? Or Tom Scholtz? Was he 'fucking stupid' for having Brad Delp sing his songs?

I'm sure there are people out there who might thing they were 'fucking stupid' for doing so, but I'm also sure that there are a vast majority of people who feel that Townshend and Scholtz made the right choices.

Just think how amazing "Bullet with Butterfly Wings", "Muzzle" or "The Everlasting Gaze" would have sounded with a good vocalist... instead, we got Billy, with his whiny, weak and nasally voice and for some strange reason people want to celebrate that.

 
Jelly Blossom is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2017, 10:58 PM   #199
Ram27
Minion of Satan
 
Ram27's Avatar
 
Location: mayfair mistress of the satellites
Posts: 5,526
Default

Billy was a good vocalist for those songs though. Music is not about technical ability so much as conveying emotion, and Billy did that incredibly

 
Ram27 is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2017, 11:24 PM   #200
ButtHash
Pledge
 
Posts: 237
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jelly Blossom View Post
Just think how amazing "Bullet with Butterfly Wings", "Muzzle" or "The Everlasting Gaze" would have sounded with a good vocalist... instead, we got Billy, with his whiny, weak and nasally voice and for some strange reason people want to celebrate that.
Bruh....

 
ButtHash is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2017, 11:34 PM   #201
Jelly Blossom
Demi-God
 
Posts: 412
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ram27 View Post
Billy was a good vocalist for those songs though.
Dude, in what fucking universe?

 
Jelly Blossom is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2017, 11:44 PM   #202
Run To Me
Apocalyptic Poster
 
Run To Me's Avatar
 
Location: Where the frog spoils the leaf
Posts: 3,557
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jelly Blossom View Post
A powerful, inflammatory statement followed by an interesting theory that ultimately holds no water.

Was Pete Townshend 'fucking stupid', as you put it, to have Roger Daltry sing a vast majority of his songs? Or Tom Scholtz? Was he 'fucking stupid' for having Brad Delp sing his songs?

I'm sure there are people out there who might thing they were 'fucking stupid' for doing so, but I'm also sure that there are a vast majority of people who feel that Townshend and Scholtz made the right choices.

Just think how amazing "Bullet with Butterfly Wings", "Muzzle" or "The Everlasting Gaze" would have sounded with a good vocalist... instead, we got Billy, with his whiny, weak and nasally voice and for some strange reason people want to celebrate that.
Lol jellys on a rampage fuck this bill music get him so fired up!!!!!

 
Run To Me is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2017, 04:36 AM   #203
reprise85
Submortal
 
reprise85's Avatar
 
Location: Now, I'm not a professional psychologist, but I am an amateur psychologist. And I think that your spontaneous eye-watering may have something to do with your father.
Posts: 27,866
Default

It is not inflammatory to acknowledge that those songs are highly personal and the person who wrote them would likely have the most emotion invested in the songs and that would be conveyed in their voice. That would be true even no matter how terrible they sounded. Billy didn't sound terrible, but obviously not great. But his emotional connection to the songs is palpable

 
reprise85 is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2017, 05:22 AM   #204
smashingjj
is very perspective
 
smashingjj's Avatar
 
Location: my mother, my anus, mayfuck, his mother, reverting and cunt amoebes; the story of my life as a fisherman's wife on mars. now in stores. if you get it before may 30, you'll receive a free coupon to hand it in and get your money back.
Posts: 28,692
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jelly Blossom View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by William Patrick Corgan
I think I'm trying to make peace with a lot of things, you know, one of which is my voice. I don't sing as well as I would like to...
let's put the vocals way up front nonetheless! classic corgan reasoning

 
smashingjj is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2017, 10:54 AM   #205
SPLATTER
Pledge
 
SPLATTER's Avatar
 
Location: New York
Posts: 249
Default

i haven't found anyone on social media excited by this song

 
SPLATTER is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2017, 12:02 PM   #206
Rider
Minion of Satan
 
Rider's Avatar
 
Location: I was born a snake handler, and I'll die a snake handler
Posts: 9,263
Default

https://twitter.com/montelds?lang=en

 
Rider is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2017, 01:46 PM   #207
themadcaplaughs
Apocalyptic Poster
 
Posts: 1,526
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SPLATTER View Post
i haven't found anyone on social media excited by this song
I have not heard anyone even mention this song on social media.

 
themadcaplaughs is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2017, 01:56 PM   #208
cork_soaker
full of longing
 
cork_soaker's Avatar
 
Posts: 10,056
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by themadcaplaughs View Post
I have not heard anyone even mention this song on social media.

 
cork_soaker is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2017, 02:54 PM   #209
Shadaloo
Ownz
 
Shadaloo's Avatar
 
Location: put those panties back on the line and get the hell out of my yard
Posts: 594
Default

According to Strawberry's instagram he's shaved the beard.

 
Shadaloo is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2017, 03:01 PM   #210
Ram27
Minion of Satan
 
Ram27's Avatar
 
Location: mayfair mistress of the satellites
Posts: 5,526
Default

absolutely groundbreaking

 
Ram27 is offline
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Google


Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What are your favrotie 90's 1-hit wonder songs? fuzzyroes Music News and Discussion 126 08-21-2015 10:27 PM
Echo & the Bunnymen singer is good friends with Chris Martin Catherine Wheel Music News and Discussion 76 04-14-2015 11:15 AM
2007 Pisces Iscariot Reference Virex19 Pumpkins Archive 80 04-29-2007 05:01 AM
List your CD Collection Alan Wu Music Board Archive 57 04-13-2007 12:44 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:11 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Smashing Pumpkins, Alternative Music
& General Discussion Message Board and Forums
www.netphoria.org - Copyright 1998-2014