Corgan Lyrics That Make You Cringe

[pavementtune]

Thank you for telling me how I should feel about lyrics in a thread titled "lyrics that make you cringe"

don't you have some more streetview pics to collect for the Solara video?

[MonumentsRocks]

Originally Posted by Rairun

No one is treating lyrics like that. Also, I don't think it's this tension that makes them interesting. There are very few things as uninteresting as a display of self-righteous male violence. ...

They lyrics are not supposed to be interesting, nor are they supposed to speak to anyone else's point of view. Those are just your expectations. I've always treated the lyrics as a I imagine Billy does, just words that vaguely fit the feel of the music, which may or may not be self consistent.

[MonumentsRocks]

Originally Posted by pavementtune

Thank you for telling me how I should feel about lyrics in a thread titled "lyrics that make you cringe"

don't you have some more streetview pics to collect for the Solara video?

you're welcome.

[houseofglass11]

The bridge in Night Mare is one of the best parts of the song. Also pretty clear that he’s talking about God in that section. The song is about loss and grief.

[pale_princess]

Originally Posted by MonumentsRocks

I don't think xyu condones misogyny.

lmao of course you don't

[Mals Marola]

Originally Posted by redbreegull

woah woah he does not say "I want to rape you," he says, "I want to BREAK you"

4 real? For some reason I was convinced I'd read "rape" in my MCIS booklet

Well shit, what're we complaining about XYU for then?

[MonumentsRocks]

Originally Posted by pale_princess

lmao of course you don't

In your view, any mention of misogyny, outside of denouncing the concept, is to condone it. You're espousing censorship. Limiting freedom of expression in art is a two way street.

[pale_princess]

get a load of this guy!

[Mals Marola]

In a world where "One in a Millon" by Guns n Roses exists, 1 can only get so worked up about abstract Billy Corgan lyrics from the mid-90s

[Mals Marola]

I don't really get criticizing Tales of Scorched Earth considering it's as self-depricating as it is going after anyone else

[Mals Marola]

Then again I guess that's just what people do these days innit

[pale_princess]

Originally Posted by Mals Marola

4 real? For some reason I was convinced I'd read "rape" in my MCIS booklet

Well shit, what're we complaining about XYU for then?

She didn't wanna be, she didn't wanna know
She couldn't run away 'cause she was crazy
She gave it all away, she saw her baby break
And in the air it hung that she was dull razors
"B*tc*s be crazy, amirite?!"

And I said, I wanna fill you up, I wanna break you, I wanna give you up
From one another, another one should come to one another
No one should come between us
Still I was lonely, and she was by my side, my one and only
Knows that she could never hide
I couldn't feel her, and it was just a game
'Cause I was lonely and she was crazy
"But the crazier the chick, the better the sex, amirite?! Ugh, she's so hot but she makes me SO ANGRY. Physically. Not that I actually have feelings for this person. Not at all. I swear!"

Rat-tat-tat, ka boom boom, now take that, and just a bit of this
'Cause I'm a watcher, and I'm a doer of none
Come to save you, 'cause you're all mine
"Just to reinforce the point, I wish to hurt this woman but at the same time I want to own her."

I hurt where I can't feel, I feel where I can't hurt
I know where I can't know, I bleed for me and mine
Ka-boom, a rat-tat-tat, and some good ole bliss
'Cause I'm a sister, and I'm a motherfuck
I am made of shamrocks, I am made of stern stuff
I am never enough, I am the forgotten child
"Feel sorry for me not that terrible woman!"

And I said I wanna fill you up, I wanna break you, I wanna give you up
From one another, no one should ever come
In between us, between us and our love
"I hate this woman, but also I'm the only one who can ever have her"

Mary had a little lamb, her face was white as snow
And everywhere that Mary went I was sure to go
Now Mary's got a problem, and Mary's not a stupid girl
Mary's got some deep shit, and Mary does not forget
And this is how Mary's garden grows, and this is how Mary has her ghosts
"We were both so pure and innocent until this woman RUINED IT!!!1"

And into the eyes of the jackal I say ka-boom
Now we begin descent, to where we've never been
There is no going back, this wasn't meant to last
This is a hell on earth, we are meant to serve
And she will never learn
She will never learn
Bye bye, baby goodbye, bye, bye
"Good riddance, evil woman. Continue about your evil ways."

[pale_princess]

To sum it up: xyu is about an immature man-baby using violent language to slut shame a woman he wants desperately

[MonumentsRocks]

We should just pretend that people who think those thoughts don't exist.

[smashingjj]

Originally Posted by MonumentsRocks

In your view, any mention of misogyny, outside of denouncing the concept, is to condone it. You're espousing censorship. Limiting freedom of expression in art is a two way street.

calling it misogyny isn't censorship.

[MonumentsRocks]

Originally Posted by smashingjj

calling it misogyny isn't censorship.

It can very well have that effect. The implication is that the song shouldn't exists as it does, because it's misogynistic. The word itself implies condemnation of whatever it's applied to, it's derogatory towards it's subject. You wouldn't say something is both misogynistic and justified in its existence at the same time.

[smashingjj]

well she's free to dislike it for that reason, no? maybe you should ask if that's the implication instead of assuming it.

[MonumentsRocks]

Originally Posted by smashingjj

well she's free to dislike it for that reason, no? maybe you should ask if that's the implication instead of assuming it.

She saying that nobody should like it.

[smashingjj]

mind pointing me to that exact quote?

[reprise85]

Originally Posted by pale_princess

To sum it up: xyu is about an immature man-baby using violent language to slut shame a woman he wants desperately

absolutely agree with your analysis

but i don't think billy included it on the album because he thinks the behavior in the song is just fine and dandy. it's showing his fucked up tendencies, forcing himself to look at it, by making all of us look at it. does that make sense? it's like when you have fucked up depressed thoughts and your therapist has you write them down in a journal or whatever and then read them outloud to him/her. once someone else sees it it has another effect, and sometimes exposure is the only way to get that.

now whether it's healthy to do that through double albums as a huge rock star vs. an intimate friend or psychologist etc... well, it's billy corgan

[Mals Marola]

Originally Posted by reprise85

i don't think billy included it on the album because he thinks the behavior in the song is just fine and dandy. it's showing his fucked up tendencies, forcing himself to look at it, by making all of us look at it. does that make sense? it's like when you have fucked up depressed thoughts and your therapist has you write them down in a journal or whatever and then read them outloud to him/her. once someone else sees it it has another effect, and sometimes exposure is the only way to get that.

This 100%. If you want toned-down inoffensive lyrics listen to Coldplay

[smashingjj]

I am offended by Coldplay. Very.

[FoolofaTook]

[MonumentsRocks]

Originally Posted by reprise85

absolutely agree with your analysis

but i don't think billy included it on the album because he thinks the behavior in the song is just fine and dandy. it's showing his fucked up tendencies, forcing himself to look at it, by making all of us look at it. does that make sense? it's like when you have fucked up depressed thoughts and your therapist has you write them down in a journal or whatever and then read them outloud to him/her. once someone else sees it it has another effect, and sometimes exposure is the only way to get that.

now whether it's healthy to do that through double albums as a huge rock star vs. an intimate friend or psychologist etc... well, it's billy corgan

This exact issue comes up in the context of comedy. Is it acceptable to joke about rape? I think that's far more questionable than discussing it through lyrics, because comedy is supposed to make you laugh and have a good time, you'd be laughing and having a good time to the subject of rape. Music, on the other hand, can make you feel sad, angry, and other things, which probably makes it a more suitable medium for covering controversial or difficult subject matter. xyu is a perfect example of that, the lyrics talk about conflict, and the music gives a feeling of conflict.

[houseofglass11]

XYU is clearly about Courtney.

[FoolofaTook]

how do you figure that?

[pale_princess]

Originally Posted by reprise85

absolutely agree with your analysis

but i don't think billy included it on the album because he thinks the behavior in the song is just fine and dandy. it's showing his fucked up tendencies, forcing himself to look at it, by making all of us look at it. does that make sense? it's like when you have fucked up depressed thoughts and your therapist has you write them down in a journal or whatever and then read them outloud to him/her. once someone else sees it it has another effect, and sometimes exposure is the only way to get that.

now whether it's healthy to do that through double albums as a huge rock star vs. an intimate friend or psychologist etc... well, it's billy corgan

agree very much with all of this.
when I was a teenager, I felt like "wow, I can so relate because this boy used me. this must be what it's like when there's actual sex involved."
at the age I am now, it's like, "wow 20-something Billy grow tf up and let the woman live" lol


Unfortunately, with Billy being who Billy has been for the past decade and the fans following suit with altright/Trumper/chemtrails tendencies... I could see them thinking it's okay to talk/think about women like this

[pale_princess]

Originally Posted by MonumentsRocks

It can very well have that effect. The implication is that the song shouldn't exists as it does, because it's misogynistic. The word itself implies condemnation of whatever it's applied to, it's derogatory towards it's subject. You wouldn't say something is both misogynistic and justified in its existence at the same time.

Topic at hand is "lyrics that make you cringe" and these ones do for me, personally. It RAWKs and all that, too. Good song to be an angry teenager to, I was there lmao. But with age and experience and education, I really don't enjoy these lyrics. There's tons of misogyny in all genres of music and there's nothing wrong with pointing it out. 2018 is a very different world than 1995.

[MonumentsRocks]

Originally Posted by houseofglass11

XYU is clearly about Courtney.

Just based on the timing, I'd think it was about his first wife, if anybody in particular.

[Funbags]

I think you're projecting, pale_princess