so what about that florida drug testing thing

[Order 66]

http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/07/02/flo...html?hpt=hp_t1

A controversial law requiring adults applying for welfare assistance to undergo drug screening has gone into effect in Florida.

Saying it is "unfair for Florida taxpayers to subsidize drug addiction," Gov. Rick Scott signed the legislation in June.

"It's the right thing for taxpayers," Scott said after signing the measure. "It's the right thing for citizens of this state that need public assistance. We don't want to waste tax dollars. And also, we want to give people an incentive to not use drugs."

Under the law, which went into effect on Friday, the Florida Department of Children and Family Services will be required to conduct the drug tests on adults applying to the federal Temporary Assistance for Needy Families program.

The aid recipients would be responsible for the cost of the screening, which they would recoup in their assistance if they qualify.

Those who fail the required drug testing may designate another individual to receive the benefits on behalf of their children.

[Order 66]

i'm not totally against the concept. on paper it seems fine. but i have alot of qualms with drug testing to begin with. first, they aren't entirely accurate and can be easy to fool especially if you aren't being supervised (plus the harder shit like meth and coke goes out of your system in days while pot can stay in there for months). second, the concept is pretty silly - say you and a friend are applying to be a trucker. you smoke a joint now and then while your friend goes through a handle of jim beam a day and stays sloshed 24/7. your friend gets the job and you don't. it doesn't make sense. thirdly, i don't see how you can expect people seeking welfare will have cash on hand to pay for it. they get their money back if they pass, but even $50 can be unattainable for them. hell $50 can be alot for me sometimes

either way. i'm not all that strongly against it even though i fucking hate rick scott already. i'm interested to see how this works out. i'm being open minded but my gut tells me it won't play out too well

[Future Boy]

the only problem I have, going off what you posted, is they have to cover the cost of the test, for the reasons you gave.

[Order 66]

also it could end up costing taxpayers more if most applicants pass. and i think most will

drug tests don't exactly cost an arm and a leg but it could add up, i dunno. kind of makes me wonder if some lab companies lobbied for this or something

[Order 66]

how about we make lawmakers take drug tests too

[Trotskilicious]

i dunno why this is a big deal really

[TuralyonW3]

banzah brought up a pretty good point about kids paying for their parents fuckups.

THINK OF THE CHILLREN

[Toast]

I don't want my money to pay for welfare in the first place, but if a person collects it then it's not too much to ask that they should live a clean life.

[hnibos]

Passing a drug test doesn't prove anything.

[duovamp]

LEGALIZE IT DUDES!! WOOO!!!

[redbreegull]

It's a stupid idea just like any drug test because 1) you can do drugs and still pass a drug test and 2) it will disproportionately punish pot smokers because their numbers are so much greater than users of hard drugs while completely letting off alcoholics and cigarette smokers, both of which are also expensive habits consuming taxpayer money blah blah

[duovamp]

You can't say that alcohol and cigarettes somehow make this better. If you have to beg the government for food to feed your children, but spend your money on marijuana, you're fucking garbage.

Your logic is like saying "Clinton lied about Monica!" when someone points out George W. Bush lied about the Iraq war. Clinton's actions don't lessen Bush's. Irrelevant argument. It's a really ridiculous kneejerk defense mechanism to point to others' mistakes to think it makes your own any better. And it's immature.

[redbreegull]

I'm not sure I understand your point. Alcohol is a drug which can be more destructive and expensive than weed when consumed in large quantities. Yet an alcoholic living off public money who can barely function because of her or his addiction will go unpunished, while someone who smokes weed occasionally on public money can lose welfare. It's not fair and it is an arbitrary double standard, one which is applied by all forms of drug testing, which was my point.

[duovamp]

And I submit that your point is completely ridiculous. Do you think marijuana should be available for widespread legal consumption? Would that really make things better? No, it would not. Cigarettes and alcohol are destructive. More destructive? Impossible to declare. However I didn't say cigarettes and alcohol should be legal either.

The fact is they all make things worse for people on the whole - so why add one more to the mix? Why increase that potential?

How the hell can you say that cigarettes and alcohol make marijuana okay? They don't. It's like saying my lie is okay because you lied about something too. But they are both bad and neither makes the other any better.

You're taking a childish stance on this. Bobby hit Johnny, so it's okay for me to hit Karl. Surely that will make things better for everyone.

[MyOneAndOnly]

Originally Posted by Toast

I don't want my money to pay for welfare in the first place, but if a person collects it then it's not too much to ask that they should live a clean life.

that argument is retarded.

do you get NO money, aid or breaks from government? Nothing? No student loans for college? No tax rebates or credits from the state or feds? Never been on government unemployment?

why should someone getting only ONE SPECIFIC type of assistance have to submit to drug tests?

[Order 66]

Originally Posted by duovamp

And I submit that your point is completely ridiculous. Do you think marijuana should be available for widespread legal consumption? Would that really make things better? No, it would not. Cigarettes and alcohol are destructive. More destructive? Impossible to declare. However I didn't say cigarettes and alcohol should be legal either.

The fact is they all make things worse for people on the whole - so why add one more to the mix? Why increase that potential?

How the hell can you say that cigarettes and alcohol make marijuana okay? They don't. It's like saying my lie is okay because you lied about something too. But they are both bad and neither makes the other any better.

You're taking a childish stance on this. Bobby hit Johnny, so it's okay for me to hit Karl. Surely that will make things better for everyone.

i think he's saying if we penalize pot smokers then why not be consistent and test for alcohol and tobacco too (not sure its even possible to test for tobacco, but you probably get the point)

[hnibos]

Originally Posted by duovamp

Do you think marijuana should be available for widespread legal consumption? Would that really make things better?

Yes. Our jails are crowded with non violent offenders.

[hnibos]

Originally Posted by duovamp

Cigarettes and alcohol are destructive.

Stop with these statements. It makes you look childish.

[TuralyonW3]

I can never pin down duovamp's belief system...he's like some kind of very moralistic, yet anti-religious...political independent?

[duovamp]

Like fuckin' Batman or somethin'.

[hnibos]

I hope he's never had a beer. Don't want him to destroy that beautiful body of his

[Toast]

Originally Posted by scottytheoneand

that argument is retarded.

do you get NO money, aid or breaks from government? Nothing? No student loans for college? No tax rebates or credits from the state or feds? Never been on government unemployment?

why should someone getting only ONE SPECIFIC type of assistance have to submit to drug tests?

No to all.

Because nothing screams lazy and entitled like welfare recipients. So fuck em. You want to smoke weed then get off welfare.

[redbreegull]

duovamp and toast are both being retarded in this thread

[Order 66]

Originally Posted by Toast

Because nothing screams lazy and entitled like welfare recipients. So fuck em. You want to smoke weed then get off welfare.

yeah fuck those lazy pot smoking jigs

[redbreegull]

duovamp, my point is that many, many more people drink alcohol than smoke weed, which means a much larger amount of welfare money is being spent on booze, which is also widely considered (by those of sound mind) to be more harmful to the body than weed in both the short and long terms. The issue I am raising is fairness.

[redbreegull]

besides, there is no sound way for the government to prove that if I am on welfare and test positive for weed, that I spent welfare money on weed. It becomes another way for law enforcement to persecute users of a mostly safe drug which is illegal for political reasons, while aforementioned alcoholics are subject to no punishment. Drug testing is fundamentally unfair, and there is no way to make it fair short of overhauling our entire legal attitude towards drugs

[Order 66]

not only with welfare recipients but also with employment. like the guy who wants to flip burgers has to take a piss test, but a neurosurgeon doesn't. the whole thing is just dumb to me

funny enough my dad and i just bought into a drug testing franchise. may as well take advantage i guess

[redbreegull]

It's not really about making sure people can perform their jobs correctly... what percentage of drug users do it while on the job? 5%? 1%? It's also class discrimination, since as you mentioned, professionals are assumed to always be sober while people applying for shittier jobs are subject to tests

[Order 66]

to be fair it also has to do with how staffing businesses utilize healthcare providers and all that jazz. but i agree

[duovamp]

It's not a law that a burger flipper has to get a piss test - it's the employer's decision. The guy running the McDonald's is the one who thinks his staff is getting high.