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View Poll Results: What score do you give this album?
10/10 This album is perfection. 1 0.94%
9/10 Pretty amazing 4 3.77%
8/10 Strong, but let down by a few small issues 7 6.60%
7/10 Solid effort, but slightly lacking. 24 22.64%
6/10 Just above average. 10 9.43%
5/10 Average album. Some great moments, some not. 18 16.98%
4/10 Below average. A few good tracks, mostly awful 17 16.04%
3/10 Just, whatever. 9 8.49%
2/10 Mostly awful. 7 6.60%
1/10 Unlistenable 8 7.55%
0/10 Go sit in a corner and rethink your life. 1 0.94%
Spaced / I hate polls. 0 0%
Voters: 106. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
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Old 11-13-2018, 11:29 PM   #211
redbreegull
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SHE STABS THE EMPTY _______________

 
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Old 11-13-2018, 11:29 PM   #212
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CLOCK

 
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Old 11-13-2018, 11:32 PM   #213
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What SP1 song am I thinking of which has a similar sounding guitar thing to the noisy whooshing in the final part of Marchin On?

 
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Old 11-13-2018, 11:33 PM   #214
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yeah she stabs the empty clock sounds so forced and awkward. like a mormon rocking out.

seek and destroy wasn't that bad. but i won't listen to it again. alienation is awesome.


so of the bunch i like travels and silvery. 2 out 8. good job b0llzybub.

 
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Old 11-13-2018, 11:45 PM   #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cool As Ice Cream View Post
"Speculation
Come on, get yopurself together
Speculation
Become the owl at midnight"

lololo wtf?
fucking hell this is a hard listen
Classic post-2000 Corgan lyrical diarrhea. I don’t know what the fuck is going through his head when he writes these goddamn lyrics.

“I will be special K
Never let the summer catch you down
Never let your thoughts run free
Even when their numbers draw you out
Everything I want is free”

 
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Old 11-13-2018, 11:48 PM   #216
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it truly is bizarre that he used to have so much talent at writing clever and thoughtful lyrics. He always did bullshit lyrics as well, but I guess that felt purposeful when he was also capable of to sheila

 
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Old 11-13-2018, 11:52 PM   #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cool As Ice Cream View Post
this "album" has got to be a joke. that's the only explanation i can think of.
I have seriously wondered whether Billy has been purposely writing awkward, weird, and just plain bad music. I’ve put a ton of thought into it. There’s no other rational explanation. It truly baffles me. Maybe he’s fucking with us. Or maybe it’s part of him being a “sociological astronaut” or “playing my public image off of myself.” The only problem with this theory is that Billy is too much of a loose cannon and too obsessed with success to pull something like that off.

 
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Old 11-13-2018, 11:54 PM   #218
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I think the guy is just truly lost. He's a talented mentally ill idiot who stumbled into something really amazing and destroyed it

 
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Old 11-14-2018, 12:01 AM   #219
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GISH, SD, MCIS- great

Adore, Machina, MSTOS, TFE- decent

Z, TBK, Oceania, MTAE, Ogilala, SAOSB- seriously wtf Bill

 
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Old 11-14-2018, 12:04 AM   #220
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marchin' on sounds like a fuck you from corgan to people who want to hear his old voice and sound. it's empty as fuck. she stabs the empty clock? what?
"She stabs the empty clock" is about as meaningless as most of Corgan's lyrics. Usually a person can assemble some vague meaning from his word soup. Some violent imagery, a bunch of absolutes and extremes, like nothing, everything, once, never, forever, love, death, the stars, the moon, blood. If a person wanted, they could probably write a script to spit out Billy Corgan lyrics.

"She stabs the empty clock", I'll say it's an allusion to drug abuse, because why not? A lot of people wish Corgan would go back to his angry former self, but I guess this goes to show that he's not that person, and that it would come off as hollow if he were to attempt it in earnest.

 
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Old 11-14-2018, 12:06 AM   #221
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redbreegull View Post
I think the guy is just truly lost. He's a talented mentally ill idiot who stumbled into something really amazing and destroyed it
I think this is pretty much it. And his ego is so big that he won’t let anyone around him tell him when his ideas are fucking wacky.

D’Arcy would not have been down with a lot of these song turds.

 
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Old 11-14-2018, 12:13 AM   #222
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D’Arcy would not have been down with a lot of these song turds.
I keep seeing her described as some sort of "quality control" within the group, but what evidence is there that she ever saved Billy from his own impulses?

 
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Old 11-14-2018, 12:17 AM   #223
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Originally Posted by MonumentsRocks View Post
I keep seeing her described as some sort of "quality control" within the group, but what evidence is there that she ever saved Billy from his own impulses?
people say that because Billy actually characterized her like that in the confessions

 
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Old 11-14-2018, 12:21 AM   #224
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johncg View Post
Classic post-2000 Corgan lyrical diarrhea. I don’t know what the fuck is going through his head when he writes these goddamn lyrics.

“I will be special K
Never let the summer catch you down
Never let your thoughts run free
Even when their numbers draw you out
Everything I want is free”
"it's in the ways i walk thru fire
it's in the ways of my desire
and when i said that you're no good
what i meant was i wish you could"

Guy's lyrics have always been spotty here and there. I find they're usually 50% good and 50% "whatever works".

 
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Old 11-14-2018, 12:22 AM   #225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redbreegull View Post
people say that because Billy actually characterized her like that in the confessions
He also talks extensively about D’Arcy’s veto power over songs in his 2011 Matt Pinfield interview and elsewhere.

 
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Old 11-14-2018, 12:24 AM   #226
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He talked about how he would just have to look at D'arcy and her body language to know whether something was working or not. And it's pretty clear from her blasting him publicly after he dicked her over with the reunion that she always had no problem speaking her mind to him. He's too arrogant to take anyone's suggestion on anything anymore except from someone like Rick Rubin (obviously he's not that great of a producer considering how weak SosB is). Corgan thinks he's infallible and never makes bad musical decisions.

 
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Old 11-14-2018, 12:24 AM   #227
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when i said that you're no good what i mean was i wish you could be there, forever


"when i was an abusive dick to you it was because i really love you and don't want you to leave me"

no??

 
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Old 11-14-2018, 12:25 AM   #228
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imagine how billy's life would have gone if he'd never got a record deal? probably not very well. he's talented, yes. but also very, very lucky. lots of talented people don't get rich and famous from their talents.

 
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Old 11-14-2018, 12:29 AM   #229
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He probably would have turned into one of those angry white men who murders 12 random people out of resentment and entitlement

 
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Old 11-14-2018, 12:30 AM   #230
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I’m only half kidding.

 
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Old 11-14-2018, 12:32 AM   #231
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because it wasn't *just* Billy that endeared the band to the public. D'Arcy was a solid portion of that

 
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Old 11-14-2018, 12:44 AM   #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonumentsRocks View Post
"She stabs the empty clock", I'll say it's an allusion to drug abuse, because why not? A lot of people wish Corgan would go back to his angry former self, but I guess this goes to show that he's not that person, and that it would come off as hollow if he were to attempt it in earnest.
that's an incredibly vapid way to analyze the lyrics as a text.

 
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Old 11-14-2018, 12:44 AM   #233
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because why not? seriously? have you ever critically analyzed something? ever?

 
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Old 11-14-2018, 12:44 AM   #234
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He probably would have turned into one of those angry white men who murders 12 random people out of resentment and entitlement
nah he'd probably just be working some lame blue collar job and voting against his own interests

twice divorced
three kids, two don't talk to him
addicted to internet porn
high cholesterol
tried therapy but won't accept he has personality issues

 
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Old 11-14-2018, 12:48 AM   #235
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Originally Posted by reprise85 View Post
when i said that you're no good what i mean was i wish you could be there, forever


"when i was an abusive dick to you it was because i really love you and don't want you to leave me"

no??
I'm not saying it doesn't make sense, they're just really simple and kinda goofy, but the song being pretty damn good draws attention away from that. The first two lines kinda feel like placeholders to me, though, a little disconnected from the latter two. When he's spot on, he's spot-on (Porcelina comes to mind for some really great vivid lyrical imagery), but he was never perfect. He had a lot of really simplistic Reznor-level rhymes going on throughout a lot of the original run.

His biggest late-period problem is that he gets so overly verbose - again to the point of goofiness - you have to sit down and interpret shit. Like, the one johncg posted above is pretty much him saying "I may seem stable, but I'm actually on Ketamine because I'm screwed up and in pain. Nevertheless that doesn't stop me from enjoying the good parts of life and you shouldn't either."

 
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Old 11-14-2018, 01:56 AM   #236
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imagine how billy's life would have gone if he'd never got a record deal? probably not very well. he's talented, yes. but also very, very lucky. lots of talented people don't get rich and famous from their talents.
I think about that in terms of a lot of larger than life rock stars, especially the eccentric ones likes Steven Tyler. Would he still have looked feminine as he does, or would a life of the 9 to 5 grind left him looking like any average Joe? Would they have talked the same? Would their relationships have lasted longer? You almost get the sense that they were born to be famous, but we're atheists, we know that can't be true.

I'm not sure what Bill Corgan Sr. did for a living, but to get a sense of where Billy would have wound up, probably some similar line of work. He strikes me as the kind of guy who would run a few coffee shops around town. The people I've know who come closest to living like rock stars without being actually being rock stars tend to be retail entrepreneurs, they work a lot with the public, its creative, uniquely challenging, you call your own shots, it's risky, like the music business, but with much better odds. Billy did open a tea shop, after all.

 
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Old 11-14-2018, 02:00 AM   #237
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Billy's dad is/was a musician. Did you really not know that? Oh and I guess a drug dealer.

 
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Old 11-14-2018, 02:03 AM   #238
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Billy's dad is/was a musician. Did you really not know that? Oh and I guess a drug dealer.
Everybody is a musician.

 
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Old 11-14-2018, 02:09 AM   #239
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He talked about how he would just have to look at D'arcy and her body language to know whether something was working or not. And it's pretty clear from her blasting him publicly after he dicked her over with the reunion that she always had no problem speaking her mind to him. He's too arrogant to take anyone's suggestion on anything anymore except from someone like Rick Rubin (obviously he's not that great of a producer considering how weak SosB is). Corgan thinks he's infallible and never makes bad musical decisions.
First, anything Billy says is possibly a lie, as he lies quite often. I wish he would lie all the time, because then I could simply take the reverse of what he says and we'd have the truth.

D'arcy's lack of actual musical contribution throughout her time with SP and in the intervening years leaves me doubting the veracity of the notion that she had golden ears. I think Billy actually feels a little bad about being a dictator, he wanted a band, but he also wanted his way, because he's a conflicted individual. I think he spoke up both D'arcy and James in an attempt to repair some of the damage he recognized having done them (before turning around and then doing more damage).

 
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Old 11-14-2018, 02:13 AM   #240
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why are you just like the worst guy

 
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