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05-29-2015, 09:52 AM | #121 |
Shut the fuck up!
Location: "Okay, white power feminist" - yo soy el mejor
Posts: 23,882
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there are so few people in the USA that actually prescribe to traditional socialism as a philosophical world view that it's pointless to even discuss it. it's mostly a handful of fringe activists and academics. Nobody gives a fuck what any of them thinks, since they're so few and their perspective is not in any way part of the current political conversation in the US. who really gives a shit that a few 60 year old history professors at Berkeley think Bernie Sanders isn't a real socialist?
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05-29-2015, 04:15 PM | #122 |
Banned
Location: I believe in the transcendental qualities of friendship.
Posts: 39,439
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bingo, but its young ppl too. i cant show an example because its mostly facebook convos of marxists i know
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05-29-2015, 04:15 PM | #123 |
Banned
Location: I believe in the transcendental qualities of friendship.
Posts: 39,439
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and bernie is a real socialist, hes not a "real" marxist
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05-29-2015, 04:23 PM | #124 |
Shut the fuck up!
Location: "Okay, white power feminist" - yo soy el mejor
Posts: 23,882
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arguing about whether someone is a real socialist is like arguing whether they're a real Christian.
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05-29-2015, 05:40 PM | #125 |
Banned
Location: i'm from japan also hollywood
Posts: 57,805
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It's 2015, Actually Existing Socialism is just for 3rd world orientals and poor browns in latin countries.
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05-29-2015, 05:50 PM | #126 |
Banned
Location: i'm from japan also hollywood
Posts: 57,805
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Words have meaning and ideologies have clear cut doctrines. Bernie Sanders is not a socialist and there's nothing wrong with that. That isn't a "fringe" interpretation of the label, that is the literal interpretation of it. The word you're looking for is Democratic Socialist probably, I haven't really done any research on him.
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05-29-2015, 05:58 PM | #127 |
huh
Posts: 62,456
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What sorts of policies would align with true socialism? Not being snarky.
Like the NHS is a socialist program right? A truly aggressivley progressive tax code and a mandatory living wage? Umm |
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05-29-2015, 06:22 PM | #128 |
Banned
Posts: 5,711
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honestly trots is probably the best qualified person to answer these questions for us.
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05-29-2015, 08:26 PM | #129 |
Banned
Location: I believe in the transcendental qualities of friendship.
Posts: 39,439
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ugh i dont want to even bother with this semantic bullshit
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05-29-2015, 08:27 PM | #130 |
Banned
Location: I believe in the transcendental qualities of friendship.
Posts: 39,439
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have you guys considered how nonfunctional our govt would be with prez sanders
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05-29-2015, 09:34 PM | #131 |
huh
Posts: 62,456
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05-30-2015, 12:48 AM | #132 |
Banned
Location: I believe in the transcendental qualities of friendship.
Posts: 39,439
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i think so honestly, i'm not sure how.
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05-30-2015, 01:33 AM | #133 |
Banned
Posts: 5,711
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A hypothetical Bernie presidency is hard to envision, because it really depends on what congress would look like for the first two years. If he manages to win the nomination and subsequently invigorates voters into electing him, those voters are very likely to vote straight D's down the ticket. Would a democratic supermajority in congress mean a rubber stamp legislature? No, but we wouldn't have the kind of gridlock we're seeing now.
Think of all the red state voters in the Obamacare coverage gap. They are pretty invariably pissed off at republicans. I'm not sure about the numbers, but I'm pretty sure if you got a decent amount of them to vote, a democratic supermajority would be easily attainable. |
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05-30-2015, 01:39 AM | #134 |
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Posts: 5,711
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http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...on_map.svg.png
Look at all those republican senate seats up for grabs. |
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05-30-2015, 02:16 AM | #135 |
Banned
Location: I believe in the transcendental qualities of friendship.
Posts: 39,439
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does new hampshire vote republican out of tradition
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05-30-2015, 02:17 AM | #136 |
Banned
Location: I believe in the transcendental qualities of friendship.
Posts: 39,439
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why are these places their own states i just never fucking understand even france and england have reorganized their administrative divisions
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05-30-2015, 09:35 AM | #137 |
Braindead
Location: I was just reading, right?
Posts: 15,023
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05-30-2015, 10:51 AM | #138 | |
huh
Posts: 62,456
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Quote:
What have you been smoking |
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05-30-2015, 10:53 AM | #139 | |
huh
Posts: 62,456
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Quote:
Alabama Mississippi Louisiana Oklahoma South Carolina Kansas the Dakotas Utah Idaho and kentucky are not "up for grabs." |
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05-30-2015, 10:55 AM | #140 |
huh
Posts: 62,456
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Probably not Iowa either. I don't know who is up in AZ and I'm too lazy to look.
Mark Kirk is pretty well liked here. There are not many pickup options here. The idea that dems could have a supermajority is absolutely insane. |
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05-30-2015, 11:42 AM | #141 | |
Shut the fuck up!
Location: "Okay, white power feminist" - yo soy el mejor
Posts: 23,882
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Quote:
: a way of organizing a society in which major industries are owned and controlled by the government rather than by individual people and companies |
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05-30-2015, 11:54 AM | #142 | |||
Shut the fuck up!
Location: "Okay, white power feminist" - yo soy el mejor
Posts: 23,882
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Quote:
Arguing about whether there's a difference between Socialism and Democratic Socialism is really just an argument over political/philosophical orthodoxy. People who advocate for complete economic socialism tend to be on the fringe and in the USA there are hardly any. Most active political parties in Western Democracies that advocate for "socialism" today do so from a "Democratic Socialism" perspective. From http://www.dsausa.org/ Quote:
Quote:
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05-30-2015, 11:59 AM | #143 |
Shut the fuck up!
Location: "Okay, white power feminist" - yo soy el mejor
Posts: 23,882
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I was an Organizer for DSA in the 1990s. Trying to explain this to Americans was like beating my head against a brick wall. Americans associate the term Socialism with Soviet or Chinese style communism. It's always been that way, even a century ago when Eugene Debs was running actual political campaigns under a Socialist Platform.
Prior to WWII there was far more support for Fascism in the USA than there ever was or has been for any type of Socialism. |
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05-30-2015, 12:08 PM | #144 |
Banned
Posts: 5,711
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no shit sherlock of course i'm not referring to every red state on the map. but pennsylvania, indiana, illinois, florida, ohio i think we can all agree are up for grabs.
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05-30-2015, 01:17 PM | #145 | |
Shut the fuck up!
Location: "Okay, white power feminist" - yo soy el mejor
Posts: 23,882
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Quote:
When it comes to the presidency southern whites are not going to vote for Sanders in any great numbers. They already hate Obama and despite being poor as hell they continue to vote for republicans that fuck them over. in Congress Democrats are already a majority when it comes to popular vote. Republican States are horribly gerrymandered. Dem candidates for the past two election cycles have posted the majority of votes for the US House, yet they're the minority party? in the Senate, due to the fact that less populace States are constitutionally overrepresented, the Republican "majority" represents only a bit more than 40% of total votes. There won't be a Democratic super majority in Congress anytime soon. And even if Dems put up the votes for one, they'd barely win majority represention. And when it comes to the Presidency most of those states are not real opportunities for any Democrat running in the general election. Ohio, Florida, Michigan, Wisconsin Yes. But that's because they're majority Democratic states with gerrymandered GOP majorities. |
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05-31-2015, 09:01 AM | #146 |
huh
Posts: 62,456
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I thought you were posting it in the context of our immediately preceding post that talked about a supermajority. If those states aren't in play (and they aren't) then talk of a potential supermajority is just nonsense.
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06-02-2015, 10:51 AM | #147 |
huh
Posts: 62,456
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Bernie does appear to be gathering some momentum. Which is nice to see.
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06-02-2015, 06:52 PM | #148 |
Banned
Location: I believe in the transcendental qualities of friendship.
Posts: 39,439
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they try and find dirt and all they find is a truly kind man who NEVER EVER GAVE UP
i love him |
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06-02-2015, 08:11 PM | #149 |
huh
Posts: 62,456
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He gives such great interviews. I am so excited to see him debate. Clinton, O'Malley and Chaffee will have no idea what to do.
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06-02-2015, 09:35 PM | #150 |
Socialphobic
Posts: 11,831
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probably just going to be all of them dogging on billary. just like last time
except now here won't be cheerleading (normally i think blaming 'media bias' is lazy.. but maaan did they coast obongo) |
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