why do we even care anymore

[themadcaplaughs]

Must say, I stuck through it all with Teargarden. Oceania was when the interest started to wane in terms of new material. This was the album he claimed would allow us to understand why he kept Smashing Pumpkins going. Instead, I found it more boring than Zeitgeist or Teargarden.

I was actually just kind of thinking that after the Machina re issue (which will apparently have the 12/2/2000 Metro Show) I might just retire.

[magikarp99]

Originally Posted by glitterlips

Admit, you're always curious to hear his next creations

I only listened to Oceania when I bought concert tickets for that tour.

I don't think I ever made it through all of TBK. I couldn't stand listening to anything beyond Widow Wake My Mind.

The interest in his new creations is low.

[DaveKShape]

I still check it out mainly for the absurd drama that Corgan brings to the table. I mean, Byrne was not the right drummer for the band style and age wise, yet I couldn't just drop popping in to check out what was going on with the band because it made for great drama.

Billy is a very interesting character - whether it's making absurd wrestling commercials for a furniture store... talking shit about Jimmy for being a destructive drug addict only to turn around a few years later and work with Tommy Lee... that whole Madame Zuzu synth thing... it's all too good to turn away from. The music is almost secondary at this point because most everything from the past 7 years has just been shrug-worthy.

[jimmy drevpile]

Machina reissue
Hoping Jimmy and Billy will eventually release some decent music again. Together, or apart I guess. The hope of a reunion of the two ebbs away as the years do though.
Fucking hell man, 7 years since Zeitgeist.
5 fucking years of Mike Byrne.
Fuck.

[slunken]

Originally Posted by jimmy drevpile

Fucking hell man, 7 years since Zeitgeist.
5 fucking years of Mike Byrne.
Fuck.

That's really depressing

[Slurpee]

I ask myself regularly how I can still care at all. Part of it is habit, definitely. And I loved this band so much. I think it may have become a permanent part of my identity, for better or worse. There's something comforting in knowing it so well, even through the epic decline of the past years. A tiny part of me still believes in the possibility BIlly will return to form, at least through a less-than-bitter acoustic tour in the near future. But mostly, I stick around for the little revelations, like In the Arms of Sheep, that I can add to my collection. Though there seem to be precious few of us remaining who care about preserving the best of the band's legacy, I'm happy to be one of those who see it through to the (bitter!) end.

[Corgan's Bluff]

I'm sure there would have been 200 000 more buyers for ZEITGEIST if there wouldn't have been this YouTube-video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WWM...E27DD8F9496CDB


And why buy the OCEANIA, if Billy himself put all tracks from it on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...AC3E75CD868726


That makes it easy to buy only the SP-records that are more interesting...

[themadcaplaughs]

Originally Posted by Belteshazzar

I, too, was a little underwhelmed by Oceania. It has some great songs on there, but somehow, it's the SP album I've listened to the least. I've listened to Zeitgeist more than Oceania. I can't really put my finger on why. Maybe I just never got in the spirit of it.

I'll always follow Billy creatively though, and even if he puts out something that isn't his best, it will still be worth listening to.

Zeitgiest has energy, and if nothing else, it was honest. The majority of the tracks ranged from "good" to "laughably bad," but there were at least two on there (in my opinion) thank rank up with the best Smashing Pumpkins could offer. Even though there was no "band" recording that album, the process did not seem wholly different than previous Smashing Pumpkins records. Billy wrote songs, jammed on them with Jimmy, and the two pushed each other. Even if you did not like the results, it seemed more organic.

Even Teargarden by Kaleidyscope had this to a degree. Billy was working with a revolving door of people who seemed to inspire him. Yeah, some of the songs were terrible, but at least he kept things interesting and it seemed natural.

Then with Oceania, it just seemed like he tried to crank out a Smashing Pumpkins album that was a compilation of what Billy saw as being the "popular" aspects of Smashing Pumpkins, compile it into one album, and market it as a return to form.

[Ram27]

Originally Posted by Belteshazzar

I've listened to Zeitgeist more than Oceania. I can't really put my finger on why.

JC vs Mike Burns

[fuzzyroes]

Originally Posted by jimmy drevpile

Machina reissue
Hoping Jimmy and Billy will eventually release some decent music again. Together, or apart I guess. The hope of a reunion of the two ebbs away as the years do though.
Fucking hell man, 7 years since Zeitgeist.
5 fucking years of Mike Byrne.
Fuck.

I feel yah man, Jimmy's already 50 and Billy's approaching 50. The hope of a reunion between the 2 is pretty much slim to none at this point...

But yeah, it's been an excruciating stretch for the band that's for sure. I remember when Jimmy was in the band I'd be excited to check out the bootlegs for the recent shows and would be excited when they dusted out some old jams or busted out some new shit. Even though the era was unpopular for a lot of people, i think people can appreciate with hindsight (due to the shit lineup for 5 years) how good it actually was

[Trotskilicious]

Originally Posted by themadcaplaughs

Zeitgiest has energy, and if nothing else, it was honest.

uh i thought it was a cynical attempt to get back in the limelight by going as buttrock as possible, not knowing that buttrock hit its zenith (or nadir, really) sometime two years previous.

"zeitgeist" indeed

[Ram27]

Originally Posted by fuzzyroes

I feel yah man, Jimmy's already 50 and Billy's approaching 50. The hope of a reunion between the 2 is pretty much slim to none at this point...

But yeah, it's been an excruciating stretch for the band that's for sure. I remember when Jimmy was in the band I'd be excited to check out the bootlegs for the recent shows and would be excited when they dusted out some old jams or busted out some new shit. Even though the era was unpopular for a lot of people, i think people can appreciate with hindsight (due to the shit lineup for 5 years) how good it actually was

The setlists were kickass around then.

I just clicked on a random concert, and it has Doomsday Clock, Hummer, Tonite, Mayonaise, Porcelina, Today, SIYL, Drown, 1979, Everlasting Gaze, Crush, US, and Muzzle. And other stuff.

I mean, damn.

[slunken]

Adore-era song from a batch of home demos that Billy was "glad didn't get bootlegged out".

I still believe there is some material owned by fans/friends that have never been circulated. The above (from the SPFC entry on Sparrow) would be one example. "Bootlegged out" seems to denote that someone owns it but it was never freely shared/traded.

And its been confirmed ages ago that full versions of all of PM exist. Someone in the community either has heard them or has them. Look at what happened recently with "Arms of Sheep." One does not randomly stumble upon stuff like this (as the original uploader may have suggested).

I still care because I know there is some vault-material that hopefully someday will get out there. Adore demos I and II and QAOS comes to mind, etc. Billy's home recordings have never disappointed.

[Trotskilicious]

i was listening to porcelina in the car

jim is just on another level, and like i've said a thousand times, he makes bill better. The ecstasy of that instrumentation on porcelina is ALL because of that dynamic between the two of them

[null123]

I always liked that Quiet And Other Songs was named as such
I really like Quiet

[Trotskilicious]

quiet! I am sleeeping inhaaale banananananeeenerone

[null123]

Somehow it captures that era's essence the most for me.

[Ram27]

Originally Posted by Trotskilicious

i was listening to porcelina in the car

jim is just on another level, and like i've said a thousand times, he makes bill better. The ecstasy of that instrumentation on porcelina is ALL because of that dynamic between the two of them

The quiet part with the tribal shit going on...that's next level stuff. And the way he's able to go from quiet rudimental ditties on the ride that perfectly compliments the lush guitar sound and switch to loud aggressive rock flams and back and forth.

Originally Posted by Charmbag

I always liked that Quiet And Other Songs was named as such
I really like Quiet

Listening to that album must be what heroin is like. It's just song after song of loud Big Muff guitar...I had to stop after a few songs and catch my breath, I was starting to feel sick almost. Like eating too much chocolate at once

Originally Posted by Belteshazzar

but with Mike gone and the need for a touring drummer in the near future....? They're relationship seems to have improved as well. Why not? It's what everyone is praying for - and they both know it.

.

[Trotskilicious]

Originally Posted by Ram27

The quiet part with the tribal shit going on...that's next level stuff. And the way he's able to go from quiet rudimental ditties on the ride that perfectly compliments the lush guitar sound and switch to loud aggressive rock flams and back and forth.

i know, the end to end power of geek usa is impressive but i'm coming to appreciate this element to his technique

once in a life time drummer guys, once in a fucking lifetime

[Trotskilicious]

i just read the quiet lyrics for the first time in ever and my goodness he really could right interesting lyrics without being dorkular

[null123]

It's my favorite riff to play on guitar too.


Ya ya yea

[Shallowed]

I started getting into SP about a year before Zeitgeist came out. After hearing Siamese Dream and Mellon Collie I had to get more more more, and they quickly became my favourite band. So I was quite excited to hear that Billy was making a new album. I didn't think it was that great but the hype and excitement made me want to like it. It ended up heavily falling out of favour for me. American Gothic, along with songs like As Rome Burns, Make It Happen and Lonely Is the Name seemed to be a step in the right direction so I was still on board. Of course they would never get released.

I'm surprised I followed TbK for as long as I did. I think it wasn't the poor quality of the songs that finally put me off, it was the time between released tracks that just got longer and longer. There's a bunch of TbK songs I'm completely unfamiliar with because I wasn't dedicated to waiting around for scrappy songs. Apparently they actually got a bit better after a while though.

Oceania was once again a step in the right direction. Not so much so that I frequently listen to it, but an improvement is an improvement.

I guess I'm still here because like others have said, I love the classic era SP, and I do believe that Billy has some good songs in him. It seems kind of pathetic to be hanging around waiting for an aging musician past his prime to write a good song or two, but damn it, SP are my favourite band, and this is what one does when they have a favourite band.

The board culture is also one of the most interesting I've ever read and participated in. I can't say I've actively been a part of any other message board for six years straight.

[Bread Regal]

Originally Posted by Slurpee

Part of it is habit, definitely. And I loved this band so much. I think it may have become a permanent part of my identity, for better or worse.

This, for sure, is definitely a part of it.

I don't expect Billy to create something like Siamese Dream again. If I were to hear that album for the first time today, it would not have the same effect on me, because I'm an old fuckin' man now by comparison. It is however interesting to watch Billy on his own journey into becoming an old fuckin' man.

I'd rather just see him do animal rescue full time, though.

[null123]

I'm still immature enough to receive about 90% of maximum enjoyment from Siamese Dream.

[herzogxyu]

I guess I'm weird. I follow Bolly but disagree with keeping on with the pumpkins name. This man has written some amazing solo acoustic songs that to this day we still only have in shitty live mp3 format. he rails against the fact that today is not an album format society but then decides everything must be a cohesive album unto itself. fucking shitty to think FOL was Jimmy's last contribution (and no wonder why.) instead of superchrist or usa. i am 100% sure had jimmy or james or heaven forbid d'arcy been in the group there would be no awful covers like space oddity or any of that shit on the "20 year reunion tour" in 08. oh boy, sound of silence. ugh.

[fuzzyroes]

Originally Posted by Belteshazzar

but with Mike gone and the need for a touring drummer in the near future....? They're relationship seems to have improved as well. Why not? It's what everyone is praying for - and they both know it.

That would be awesome, but it would be kind of counterproductive, having Jimmy back in the band touring in support of an album that has Tommy Lee drumming on it. From what I gather the album with Tommy on it is the big guitar driven rock one. Would have slayed to have Jimmy on that.

[Bread Regal]

Originally Posted by Charmbag

I'm still immature enough to receive about 90% of maximum enjoyment from Siamese Dream.

same. the remaining 10% is lost because i've come to realize that some of the lyrics just terrible. this applies to all SP1 material though.

[fuzzyroes]

Fuck Billy, just get Ginger and Jimmy back and revert to the 2007 lineup. That was some good shit

[slunken]

Zeitgeist was better received because of the hype from the band getting back together and those early 2007 shows. All Oceania had going for it was memories of billy being a jerk during concerts and yelling at the audience.

[Ram27]

Originally Posted by herzogxyu

i am 100% sure had jimmy or james or heaven forbid d'arcy been in the group there would be no awful covers like space oddity or any of that shit on the "20 year reunion tour" in 08. oh boy, sound of silence. ugh.

I actually liked Space Oddity.

That would be magic if at all plausible.

This was the last song the original lineup played together live, by the way. Just for fun. https://ia600305.us.archive.org/26/i...04.24D2t05.mp3