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Old 02-13-2018, 05:24 AM   #31
thedeadofnight
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Okay this is definitely a ruse. Sadistic marketing but it's working

 
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Old 02-13-2018, 05:27 AM   #32
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It can't be, as it's gotten too personal.

However, ultimately it doesn't matter. The tour sounds exciting, and Billy sounded excited about the music. If we get something that sounds like "old" SP, then it doesn't matter who's on bass (as it didn't matter then).

I'd say when the dust settles on all of this, D'arcy will come back in some capacity. That of course depends what her interview is on the "Lennon Remembers" scale.

 
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Old 02-13-2018, 05:29 AM   #33
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Iím so confused
Yes, why would she reveal those texts now when they don't do her any favours?

 
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Old 02-13-2018, 05:29 AM   #34
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She won't come back after all this, bridges are properly being burnt in true Pumpkins fashion

 
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Old 02-13-2018, 05:37 AM   #35
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Maybe there's a cynical side that is just completely going over my head but I really don't think Billy was doing anything wrong here? He was saying that they all wanted her involved in whatever way she felt comfortable with but that either way, it wasn't gonna compromise the tour. If she didn't feel up to it, then the door was open for future tours, recordings etc but for this tour, they couldn't afford to deal with the added stress of D'arcy if she wasn't in the right frame of mind, especially for a tour of this magnitude.

 
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Old 02-13-2018, 05:40 AM   #36
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Sadly, this interview may just confirm that D’arcy is indeed out of her mind. We’ll see....

 
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Old 02-13-2018, 05:42 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by thedeadofnight View Post
Maybe there's a cynical side that is just completely going over my head but I really don't think Billy was doing anything wrong here? He was saying that they all wanted her involved in whatever way she felt comfortable with but that either way, it wasn't gonna compromise the tour. If she didn't feel up to it, then the door was open for future tours, recordings etc but for this tour, they couldn't afford to deal with the added stress of D'arcy if she wasn't in the right frame of mind, especially for a tour of this magnitude.
Exactly. This doesn't sound like an "In Plainsong" level tour. Or an Ogilala tour. This is the big time.

 
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Old 02-13-2018, 06:12 AM   #38
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January 20, 2018:





January 21, 2018:

"On Sunday (January 21), ex-Smashing Pumpkins bassist Díarcy Wretzky confirmed both the planned Smashing Pumpkins reunion, and that she will not be a part of a reunion and/or tour, set to begin this summer.

Speaking exclusively to BlastEcho via text, Wretzky wrote, ďMy apologies to all of the Smashing Pumpkins fans out there who are excited about this oncoming reunion tour of the original members of the band. I know this is a huge disappointment for me, as well, but itís not going to happen [with me].Ē

She added, ďI only just found about yesterday that the band has decided to go with a different bass player.Ē "

http://blastecho.com/exclusive-darcy...pkins-reunion/



First of all...Jack White (White Stripes) is not Patty Smith's son. Guitarist Jackson Smith is her son who got married to Meg White in 2009 (they divorced in 2013).
Anyway...D'Arcy was excited about it (so she thought Jack White would be the main touring bassist???...LOL) .

Then Billy told her that it's actually Jack Bates.
The next day she spoke with BlastEcho and told them that she will not be a part of a reunion and/or tour.


It sounds like she was fine with another touring bassist and only playing a couple of songs each night (January 20th, "If so, VERY cool").

WTF happened between January 20th and January 21 ???

This doesn't make any sense.

 
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Old 02-13-2018, 06:13 AM   #39
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.
Quote:
Originally Posted by D'arcy Wretzky-Brown
Those were posted as proof to the many people who said that i was lying about ever being offered the job. (In fact, Billy is saying that now as well)

if one takes the time to read it carefully, one will notice that as the conversation continues,
the roll i'm offered becomes ever smaller.
Finally Billy says that what i deserve is a T-shirt w/my face on it. I spoke with him and asked him if there was any possible way that i'd be able to play bass on the tour and he said no.
Quote:
I hope this works out for all of you. I really do.

Reply ∑ 36m
D'arcy Wretzky-Brown
so did i. i really tried everything i could to make it work but Billy told me i had no chance to play bass on the tour.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PuzzledMuzzle View Post
Fey Wutt; 18 minutes ago.
No. I asked billy if there was any chance at all to play bass for the tour. He laughed at me and said, "You think you can play better than Jack Bates?!"
and i said , "just say i did. is the ANY CHANCE that i could be the tour bassist?" and he said "no"



She just posted this on the linked article as a response to some guy.

Last edited by pavementtune : 02-13-2018 at 06:22 AM.

 
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Old 02-13-2018, 06:16 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Forgotten Child View Post
Both sides are a fucking joke.

Darcy sounds like she wants to be there but is to afraid to commit, like finding an excuse for everything. "I can't come out and play soccer with you today cause my mommy grounded me" kind of child, when in fact you're just too afraid.

Billy is making bad decisions again.
This was exactly what I was gonna say. As much as she puts out that she is ready for this, D'arcy is very clearly looking for excuses to stop it from happening. Why does a shoulder injury prevent her from going to LA? If she was serious she would have jumped on a plane and hammered the details out.

Her statements made it look like Billy just ousted her but that is very clearly not the case. He was trying to be inclusive and accommodating while wisely having someone he knows he can rely on in place. She just threw it all back in his face because she ain't ready for it. She doesnt have the confidence to put a facebook photo up for fucks sake, never mind going on tour in front of thousands!

 
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Old 02-13-2018, 06:28 AM   #41
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you people are fucking ridiculous. she was contemplating SURGERY

a bunch of semi-sweet talking from billy doesn't change the fact he rushed this beyond any reasonable merit just so he can play his big stadiums CLASS A BROADWAY SHOWZ again. i think at this point it's pretty safe to assume now we'll never see these four people in the same room ever again

 
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Old 02-13-2018, 06:30 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by TuralyonW3 View Post
Iím so confused
yes, same here, i don't get it at all

how did billy go from offering her to be a band member to essentially not having any role except maybe, being present? what happened there?

where did darcy get the idea that he was talking about fucking jack white?

 
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Old 02-13-2018, 06:31 AM   #43
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what I don't get is - if you want to do the full sell out arena package, the 3 guys and whoever. okay then. business decision. he carefully crafted and planned that for 2 years.

why on earth do you not simply draw up a contract including NDA, and literally buy D'arcy to be quiet about not being involved? win-win. they can do some "was not comfortable with the magnitude of this tour but we are all friends" - nobody will whine, and simply pay for all this shit never seeing the light of day.

too cheap for that or what? the offer to cash in on the sales of one merch shirt with her face on it is a bit lousy.

 
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Old 02-13-2018, 06:32 AM   #44
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>>>


1998:

"I think that's probably one of the most misunderstood things about the Pumpkins is that it is the inner dynamic that we have that makes our music very poignant to us and people get very caught up in like 'I did this, they did that'. It's never been like that for us. It really is the chemistry between us.
The other day I was doing an interview and the guy asked me 'why is it important for James and D'Arcy to still be in the band?'. And I said 'well, every song that I've ever written that means anything to me, James and D'Arcy were in the room...so...whatever that chemistry is...whatever dynamic we have...it's a magical thing and at this point we don't even question it'. I feel very strongly that D'Arcy really is the moral conscience of the band. I mean...D'Arcy is the strongest person in the band and James is probably the most sensitive. In between the two of them there's a polar axis that goes on that levels me out and I think pulls them in and out so it's pretty amazing."



2012:

"Honestly, this is going to be a bit of a boring answer; I just like the way that it pockets into the music. I play guitar pretty much on top, and so the bass is better laconic. If the bass is too on top, like for example, Melissa Auf der Maur. When she played with us, she played very on top, and it was constantly tripping all over the fucking guitars. Itís hard to getÖ the Pumpkinsí sound. If you can bottle it, itís sort of predicated on the idea the guitars are clearly on top and ahead of the drums; the drums sit in the middle, and the bass is a little back, so it has an impact and wide-scope sound. Thatís the sound that I like to hear. Maybe it was developed through playing with DíArcy and the way she played. I got used to that feeling, and so Iíve looked for that feeling ever since. So, if I found a man who could play like that, I would have no problem putting him in there. Mark Tulin played like that."


2016:

"And speaking of those Iíve been fortunate enough to share the stage with, I see that itís Díarcy Wretzkyís birthday today: So a big and happy B-Day to her from here! Iím encouraged to hear that she is playing music once more, and writing songs. As Iíve often said, no one had better musical discernment in our band than she".



Who gives a fuck if Jack 'No Stage Presence' Bates plays better technically?

 
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Old 02-13-2018, 06:33 AM   #45
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what I don't get is - if you want to do the full sell out arena package, the 3 guys and whoever. okay then. business decision. he carefully crafted and planned that for 2 years.

why on earth do you not simply draw up a contract including NDA, and literally buy D'arcy to be quiet about not being involved? win-win. they can do some "was not comfortable with the magnitude of this tour but we are all friends" - nobody will whine, and simply pay for all this shit never seeing the light of day.

too cheap for that or what? the offer to cash in on the sales of one merch shirt with her face on it is a bit lousy.
Perhaps that's what he tried to do with the first contract that got withdrawn?

 
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Old 02-13-2018, 06:35 AM   #46
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It just seems so mean spirited to pressure someone to perform at a high level for a whole tour at the drop of a hat after they pretty much didn't play for a long period of time.

Not to mention him talking shit about her publicly which got her in a situation people didn't wanna even jam with her, and very probably "fans" reacting or parroting the stuff Billy said back to her didn't do anyone any favors either. But that's largely speculation, I have no idea if that's really the case.

Either way, I think we can give her some benefit of the doubt and let her be a little more insecure than a egomaniac who is lashing out like a wounded animal for his last gasp at relevancy.

 
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Old 02-13-2018, 06:35 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by New Art Rioter View Post
Sounds like that's what he tried to do with the first contract that got withdrawn?
right, he tried to do that with sweettalking so she would feel happy he involved her at all (in texts only) and then I dont know, what was the plan - get his plan through as cheap as possible?
what I would like to know is the actual number that was offered to her for staying the fuck away and maybe publicly dropping a line in the future how she wishes them all the best for the tour and is glad Bates can jump in as touring bassist on such a massive tour. even pop up gracefully for one song one evening. what was the offer for that? since it dwindled down to merch sales of a shirt in these texts.

 
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Old 02-13-2018, 06:41 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by thedeadofnight View Post
Maybe there's a cynical side that is just completely going over my head but I really don't think Billy was doing anything wrong here? He was saying that they all wanted her involved in whatever way she felt comfortable with but that either way, it wasn't gonna compromise the tour. If she didn't feel up to it, then the door was open for future tours, recordings etc but for this tour, they couldn't afford to deal with the added stress of D'arcy if she wasn't in the right frame of mind, especially for a tour of this magnitude.
The tour is only of this magnitude because Billy made that choice. It isn't some sort of looming force of nature.

Generally speaking, I'm not against telling people what you want to do, and if it fits their plans, then they can show up. If I'm hanging out with my friend James, and my friend Melissa wants to join us, she is more than welcome to - but if she is out of town or has other plans, I'm not going to tell James we have to cancel.

The thing is that I'm not billing our hangout as our HIGH SCHOOL TRIO REUNION. This is essentially what Billy is doing right now. The only way he can even entertain having an arena tour is by selling us the idea of a reunion - which isn't actually a reunion at all. This is just him doing whatever he pleases and telling his bandmates to come along or get out of the way, which wouldn't be so bad if we were talking about a personal project of his, but we aren't.

If the reunion had any meaning to him other than selling t-shirts, the idea of D'arcy "joining" it would make no sense. It's like telling your partner you are having a wedding, and if they want to, they may join you. A real reunion would have them getting together, playing music, and seeing what to do from there as a group.

So while Billy isn't doing anything terribly wrong by wanting to live his life, he's still just an egocentric asshole who has no idea how to truly relate to people. Sometimes I even wonder if we are giving him too much credit when we say this is all about money. It's easy to do that when he talks so much about business, but there might be more at play here. Billy is a cargo cultist of emotions. He thinks that if he builds some structure that resembles a human relationship - or a human community - it will just come into being. He's still chasing the same wild, delusional dreams he had in the 90s because that's all he knows.

It's kind of pathetic and really sad. He's so desperate for connection, and all he can do is set up little tea parties with all his dolls and hope real people will sit down with him, to play the roles he assigned them.

Last edited by Rairun : 02-13-2018 at 06:49 AM.

 
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Old 02-13-2018, 06:47 AM   #49
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Billy was saying all the right things last year - seems like most of that was BS - same old Bill underneath it all. No lessons learnt.

So will this be ZG part II or Zwan pt II... either way I’m sure the tour will be something.

 
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Old 02-13-2018, 06:59 AM   #50
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you know what guys, I'm not even pissed at billy for this one anymore

it's the 110% drive that got them to where they were
and he's still got that.
it's sadistic and imposing, but that's what it fucking takes to make it in the business.

yes the 'machine' got the best of him and d'arcy's getting cut, but that shit happens.
I hope in his plans he still leaves the door open for d'arcy to show up a few nights and play bass on a few songs like originally planned - real zero pressure. keep on bates as a full time touring bassist, and he'll play tambourine on a few tracks - he won't care.

 
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Old 02-13-2018, 07:02 AM   #51
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Old 02-13-2018, 07:03 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by amoergosum View Post
Hey, that was me! Didn't think she'd be reading that (if it is her at all).

I agree with the poster below mine, who said there's a piece of the convo missing.

 
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Old 02-13-2018, 07:06 AM   #53
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Old 02-13-2018, 07:11 AM   #54
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The whole tour? Or just part of the show on the tour? As that's exactly what Billy suggested.

She probably wouldn't be able to play bass on the whole tour. I imagine we're going to be getting some post-2000 SP songs on the tour, which D'arcy (and James) would never have played before.

 
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Old 02-13-2018, 07:12 AM   #55
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"Alternative Nation will be publishing the first in-depth interview with D’arcy in the last 20 years within the next day"

I can't see this making her look good.

When I heard she leaked the text messages I assumed it would make Billy look horrible, but I think he's being pretty reasonable. Seems like he is really letting her decide how much she wants to be involved and she's making excuses. Rotator cuff?? seriously? that's why you can't travel to LA?

If she's leaking texts let's see the one where she asks Corgan to play bass and he says no.

 
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Old 02-13-2018, 07:12 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T&T View Post
you know what guys, I'm not even pissed at billy for this one anymore

it's the 110% drive that got them to where they were
and he's still got that.
it's sadistic and imposing, but that's what it fucking takes to make it in the business.

yes the 'machine' got the best of him and d'arcy's getting cut, but that shit happens.
I hope in his plans he still leaves the door open for d'arcy to show up a few nights and play bass on a few songs like originally planned - real zero pressure. keep on bates as a full time touring bassist, and he'll play tambourine on a few tracks - he won't care.
Agreed. Reading over the texts, are both these people a little fucked up in one way or another? Yes. An argument can be made "They should wait til Darcy is healthy to go and play!" But at the same time it's like, how long are guys supposed to wait it out when the show is supposed to go on? It did feel like Billy reduced her role right off the bat but it wasn't like she was chomping at the bit to get out there. Even after "No Surgery needed!" the next statement was "I gotta get my other friend to look at it too" and "I dont wanna be rude to my mum" ... like.. it didn't sound like someone who was ready to go rock..

 
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Old 02-13-2018, 08:01 AM   #57
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Y'all are fucking crazy. Corgan is actually, for once, being reasonable.

Sure is interesting D'Arcy never mentioned she needed goddamned shoulder surgery when she was complaining about this situation in the first place!

"Why won't he let me be in the band???!! Oh by the way I can't actually play bass because I need shoulder surgery."

 
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Old 02-13-2018, 08:09 AM   #58
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Can't say I totally side with her or him.

Couldn't she just record herself playing and send it to him in the last two years? Seems she doesn't want it that much.

But,

He was totally banking on the idea that she needed surgery and wouldn't be able to do it. He's afraid she'd fuck it up.

 
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Old 02-13-2018, 08:12 AM   #59
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Yes because being in a band with someone you are constantly afraid will fuck up is a great thing, especially when about to go on an arena tour.

 
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Old 02-13-2018, 08:14 AM   #60
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She's probably treating her shoulder pain with opiates. Can't have those on tour

 
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