Netphoria Message Board


Go Back   Netphoria Message Board > Smashing Pumpkins Boards > Smashing Pumpkins/Billy Corgan Discussion
Register Netphoria's Amazon.com Link Members List Photo Album Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-17-2018, 12:38 PM   #31
FlamingGlobes
Socialphobic
 
FlamingGlobes's Avatar
 
Posts: 11,631
Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by LaBelle View Post
Lol of course you'd say that.

And of course you identify with it, it's incelcore at it's finest.
Judging something from 1996 through the lens of 2018 is a fruitless endeavor. Just sayin'.

 
FlamingGlobes is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2018, 12:58 PM   #32
LaBelle
Socialphobic
 
LaBelle's Avatar
 
Location: Away
Posts: 10,228
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlamingGlobes View Post
Judging something from 1996 through the lens of 2018 is a fruitless endeavor. Just sayin'.
I'm pretty sure a lot of people called this band out for these reasons many times over in the past. I've seen/heard it a bunch over the years.

So your argument holds no water.

 
LaBelle is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2018, 01:09 PM   #33
pale_princess
spanish harlem mona lisa
 
pale_princess's Avatar
 
Location: the barrio
Posts: 10,060
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by D. View Post
i'm gonna put this on my "to watch" list now

fun fact: conor oberst has a new song in this movie, in case anyone cares about conor oberst in 2018 (i do.)
you'll love it!!!

Rose Byrne, Chris O'Dowd & Ethan Hawke are all so charming in it.

 
pale_princess is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2018, 01:25 PM   #34
johncg
Apocalyptic Poster
 
johncg's Avatar
 
Location: Corgan drove here today in his white Cadillac Escalade.
Posts: 1,174
Default

Artists tend to be messed up people with messed up thoughts. And doing their art is much healthier than acting out those thoughts. I think of Eminem. I’d rather him be a psycho killer behind a mic than in real life. If I didn’t have my music as an outlet I’d probably have killed someone by now...Ani Difranco and Eddie Veddar have literally said the same.

Let artists art. If it makes you uncomfortable, just move on.

 
johncg is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2018, 01:31 PM   #35
johncg
Apocalyptic Poster
 
johncg's Avatar
 
Location: Corgan drove here today in his white Cadillac Escalade.
Posts: 1,174
Default

(By the way, I’m totally down with critiquing things through a feminist lens...so I hear the criticisms of Pinkerton loud and clear. But part of third wave feminism is the realization that one ought to have the freedom to choose what’s empowering for them. That’s why we stopped being anti-porn as feminists a long time ago and also have come to accept that there is room in feminism for being a housewife or having a very stereotypical hetero relationship or BDSM, etc etc. Yes, all of those things can be degrading in some contexts. But they can also be empowering depending on the person and the situation.)

 
johncg is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2018, 01:39 PM   #36
LaBelle
Socialphobic
 
LaBelle's Avatar
 
Location: Away
Posts: 10,228
Default

People just like to get offended when something they like gets called out as being misogynistic because they think it reflects poorly on them as people.

Newsflash, it doesn't have to, you can even continue to enjoy something while recognizing how some aspects of it are shitty or don't hold up over time.

 
LaBelle is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2018, 01:40 PM   #37
pale_princess
spanish harlem mona lisa
 
pale_princess's Avatar
 
Location: the barrio
Posts: 10,060
Default

Yeah I didn't really want this thread to derail into Weezer stuff, just more wanted us to all have a laugh at ourselves. Rivers' fetishizing of young women/teenage girls of Asian descent is well-documented and gross.

But honestly the parallels of post-Pinkerton Weezer & post-Y2K SP and its fanbases are pretty hilarious. Like, the disconnect from songs like Only In Dreams and Starla to butt-rock jokes like Hash Pipe and Tarantula!

 
pale_princess is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2018, 01:41 PM   #38
johncg
Apocalyptic Poster
 
johncg's Avatar
 
Location: Corgan drove here today in his white Cadillac Escalade.
Posts: 1,174
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LaBelle View Post
People just like to get offended when something they like gets called out as being misogynistic because they think it reflects poorly on them as people.

Newsflash, it doesn't have to, you can even continue to enjoy something while recognizing how some aspects of it are shitty or don't hold up over time.
Nailed it.

Same thing when you point out racism, sexism, homophobia, etc.

 
johncg is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2018, 02:25 PM   #39
Mals Marola
Minion of Satan
 
Mals Marola's Avatar
 
Location: https://twitter.com/fuzzyroes
Posts: 9,546
Default

I think the main thing that ever makes me "raise a brow" to lyrics or whatever is when it's ambiguous as to whether the artist himself even realizes the uh, questionable nature of what they're singing. Like with Em it was pretty obvious he was fucking with people; shit like the Weezer song & that fuckin' Guns & Roses tune where he just casually throws out the n word, not so much

on the other hand, so long as it doesn't seep out into actual real life behavior, who cares

 
Mals Marola is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2018, 02:28 PM   #40
MonumentsRocks
Ownz
 
Posts: 633
Default

The fact that this thread has devolved into what it has become demonstrates why the SNL skit funny in the first place.

I'm glad I never got into Weezer, I think any enjoyment I'd get from their music wouldn't be offset by worrying about when there music started sucking, if it ever sucked, if it ever didnt suck etc. I could say the same about SP but alas it's too late now.

 
MonumentsRocks is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2018, 02:30 PM   #41
Mals Marola
Minion of Satan
 
Mals Marola's Avatar
 
Location: https://twitter.com/fuzzyroes
Posts: 9,546
Default

I think people just like demonstrating why they're morally superior to 1996 River Comeaux

 
Mals Marola is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2018, 02:51 PM   #42
redbreegull
Just Hook it to My Veins!
 
redbreegull's Avatar
 
Location: WILD BOY
Posts: 30,971
Default

I think Weezer lyrics from Blue/Pinkterton (never listened further) are intentionally cringey and creepy, and it just hasn't aged so well in relation to how our society has changed. It's almost like a Woody Allen effect where the subject matter at the time is like WOW LOOK AT THIS SO EDGY AND HONEST (like fuzzy's POV) but fast forward a few decades and it's more obvious that it's not just abstract commentary on an uncomfortable subject, but in fact is posing as that while underneath there is actual real creepiness and expression of the artist's creepy attitudes and inappropriate behaviors.

LaBelle hit the nail on the head though– people get upset when others point shit like this out because they see it as an indictment against themselves. It's just kind of dumb and a really uncritical way to approach art, from my perspective.

 
redbreegull is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2018, 02:58 PM   #43
redbreegull
Just Hook it to My Veins!
 
redbreegull's Avatar
 
Location: WILD BOY
Posts: 30,971
Default

speaking of Weezer, here's a tangentially related anecdote. I have this friend who has been in musical stagnation since like 10th grade and he always says the dumbest shit. I've made fun of him previously, this is the guy who said to me this year, "Woah. Dude. Did you know that Joy Division and New Order are like... the same band?"

I had on Pinkerton in my car maybe two years ago and he asked, "What the fuck is this? It sounds like some shitty band pretending to be Weezer."

 
redbreegull is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2018, 03:00 PM   #44
Mals Marola
Minion of Satan
 
Mals Marola's Avatar
 
Location: https://twitter.com/fuzzyroes
Posts: 9,546
Default

did he also fill you in on the joys of expired Teenage Mutant food products?

 
Mals Marola is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2018, 05:33 PM   #45
FlamingGlobes
Socialphobic
 
FlamingGlobes's Avatar
 
Posts: 11,631
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LaBelle View Post
I'm pretty sure a lot of people called this band out for these reasons many times over in the past. I've seen/heard it a bunch over the years.

So your argument holds no water.
It's not much of an argument? More of just an observation/opinion. There's this really lazy trend of taking things from the past out back and shooting them because they aren't woke enough by today's metric. Rarely is the proper context even taken into consideration and at the end of the day, all it does is whitewash.

You're entitled to feel your feelings about the lyrical subject matter, but of Weezer's sins, the stuff on Pinkerton ranks pretty damn low.

 
FlamingGlobes is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2018, 06:04 PM   #46
FlamingGlobes
Socialphobic
 
FlamingGlobes's Avatar
 
Posts: 11,631
Default

I dunno. I mean, is it really fair to dismiss Weezer entirely just because of some problematic lyrics from years back when we should really be dismissing them for covering Toto and sounding like a(n even more) neutered version of Twenty One Pilots these days?

 
FlamingGlobes is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2018, 07:06 PM   #47
Mals Marola
Minion of Satan
 
Mals Marola's Avatar
 
Location: https://twitter.com/fuzzyroes
Posts: 9,546
Default

to this day i still don't think i've consciously heard a twenty one pilots song

 
Mals Marola is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2018, 07:08 PM   #48
houseofglass11
Apocalyptic Poster
 
houseofglass11's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,731
Default

consider yourself lucky and continue to live blissfully, my friend.

 
houseofglass11 is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2018, 07:08 PM   #49
Mals Marola
Minion of Satan
 
Mals Marola's Avatar
 
Location: https://twitter.com/fuzzyroes
Posts: 9,546
Default

if i do it'll be a god damn miracle cos both my friend & girlfriend actively own their album & t-shirts

 
Mals Marola is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2018, 07:22 PM   #50
Shallowed
Braindead
 
Shallowed's Avatar
 
Location: A compostable condom made from 100% recycled materials
Posts: 17,176
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LaBelle View Post
People just like to get offended when something they like gets called out as being misogynistic because they think it reflects poorly on them as people.

Newsflash, it doesn't have to, you can even continue to enjoy something while recognizing how some aspects of it are shitty or don't hold up over time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by redbreegull View Post
LaBelle hit the nail on the head though– people get upset when others point shit like this out because they see it as an indictment against themselves. It's just kind of dumb and a really uncritical way to approach art, from my perspective.
This is called the Angry Jack Effect


 
Shallowed is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2018, 07:33 PM   #51
FoolofaTook
Just Hook it to My Veins!
 
FoolofaTook's Avatar
 
Location: The Everlasting Blaze (420)
Posts: 30,537
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlamingGlobes View Post
There's this really lazy trend of taking things from the past out back and shooting them because they aren't woke enough by today's metric. Rarely is the proper context even taken into consideration and at the end of the day, all it does is whitewash.
I disagree. The past and history are just fictions. As we progress, we should constantly be challenging past assumptions and prejudices, finding more and more wrong shit, more ways in which we have failed.

Wrong is wrong, whether in the stone or space age, whether the wrongdoer is aware of it or not.


I HAVE SPOKEN.

 
FoolofaTook is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2018, 07:37 PM   #52
LaBelle
Socialphobic
 
LaBelle's Avatar
 
Location: Away
Posts: 10,228
Default

actually nvm, I don't mean to further derail this thread.

Last edited by LaBelle : 12-17-2018 at 07:44 PM.

 
LaBelle is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2018, 08:19 PM   #53
redbreegull
Just Hook it to My Veins!
 
redbreegull's Avatar
 
Location: WILD BOY
Posts: 30,971
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlamingGlobes View Post
I dunno. I mean, is it really fair to dismiss Weezer entirely just because of some problematic lyrics from years back when we should really be dismissing them for covering Toto and sounding like a(n even more) neutered version of Twenty One Pilots these days?
I think part of her point though was that you don't have to dismiss art or an artist because of "problematic" elements (sorry, I hate this use of this word but it applies here), and it's fine to recognize elements which are objectionable and still enjoy the music.

 
redbreegull is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2018, 08:32 PM   #54
fuzzyroes
Immortal
 
fuzzyroes's Avatar
 
Posts: 20,954
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LaBelle View Post
Lol of course you'd say that.

And of course you identify with it, it's incelcore at it's finest.
That's the thing. When I listen to a song like "No One Else" I don't think it glorifies misogyny at all. It's more of an anthem regarding Rivers' pathetic insecurity. They're whole shtick is being a "nerd-rock" band, so they have to come from a mindset of a nerd and I think they make that rather obvious. If anything a song like No One Else really makes it obvious why misogyny ISN'T cool.

 
fuzzyroes is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2018, 08:39 PM   #55
fuzzyroes
Immortal
 
fuzzyroes's Avatar
 
Posts: 20,954
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mals Marola View Post
i don't really listen to Weezer much but Green Album was good, peeps can fuck off w/ this "nothing was good post-Pinkerton" shit
There's been a lot of great music littered across even they're shittiest of albums. Weezer still always manages to be fun and quirky and you have to appreciate them for that.


 
fuzzyroes is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2018, 09:34 PM   #56
johncg
Apocalyptic Poster
 
johncg's Avatar
 
Location: Corgan drove here today in his white Cadillac Escalade.
Posts: 1,174
Default

I dunno. I’ll still take post-MACHINA Billy over post-Green Album Weezer. At least Billy is trying to be on the cutting edge. Rivers just settled into the 90’s alt equivalent of butt rock.

 
johncg is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2018, 09:45 PM   #57
FoolofaTook
Just Hook it to My Veins!
 
FoolofaTook's Avatar
 
Location: The Everlasting Blaze (420)
Posts: 30,537
Default

you guys know you could always just listen to neither

?

 
FoolofaTook is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2018, 09:56 PM   #58
johncg
Apocalyptic Poster
 
johncg's Avatar
 
Location: Corgan drove here today in his white Cadillac Escalade.
Posts: 1,174
Default

It’s like listening to Rush Limbaugh or Alex Jones. The sociological train wreck is fascinating.

 
johncg is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2018, 10:06 PM   #59
fuzzyroes
Immortal
 
fuzzyroes's Avatar
 
Posts: 20,954
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by johncg View Post
I dunno. I’ll still take post-MACHINA Billy over post-Green Album Weezer. At least Billy is trying to be on the cutting edge.
I STRONGLY disagree.

For example, there's nothing close to the quality of a track like this on the new Pumpkins album


 
fuzzyroes is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2018, 10:09 PM   #60
houseofglass11
Apocalyptic Poster
 
houseofglass11's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,731
Default

This track was as good as anything on the 1st two albums:

 
houseofglass11 is offline
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Google


Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Posting on Netphoria in 2015 DiscoJon General Chat Message Board 38 09-12-2019 10:28 PM
So when is Jimmy coming back? Elphenor Smashing Pumpkins/Billy Corgan Discussion 36 03-09-2018 12:35 AM
Official Netphoria Multi-Level Marketing Membership Recruiting Thread Disco King General Chat Message Board 13 01-23-2018 05:29 PM
in this thread, we LOL at how netphoria was mentioned in pitchfork's top story today Boycott Graceland General Chat Archive 76 05-10-2007 12:34 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:49 PM.




Smashing Pumpkins, Alternative Music
& General Discussion Message Board and Forums
www.netphoria.org - Copyright © 1998-2019