Netphoria Message Board


Go Back   Netphoria Message Board > Smashing Pumpkins Boards > Smashing Pumpkins/Billy Corgan Discussion
Register Netphoria's Amazon.com Link Members List Photo Album Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-09-2015, 06:39 PM   #1
Grox
Apocalyptic Poster
 
Grox's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,695
Default Chrysanthemum - a wish unwished, a hope unhoped

what an amazing song. i think this is one of the most clear-headed and optimistic songs Bill's ever written. the pumpkins break up and end at the metro with a funereal final concert that ends with one of the most brutal and anguished Silverfucks they ever performed. His heart is broken and he cries on stage but is too embarrassed to show it and doesn't allow himself the catharsis of letting his behemoth band and his entire life up to that point die. Instead of carrying on with Jimmy and other players, he killed the band out of a misplaced loyalty in James as a brother in arms, that once he lost interest and didn't want to be there, he had a duty to retire what they had started. And then the guy leaves the Metro that night without saying goodbye to Billy or Jimmy.

I'm not surprised Billy still says shit like "James Iha is one of the worst human beings I've ever met." that must've been incredibly traumatic - to realize you just drove your life's work into the dirt out of loyalty and respect for a man you thought was a comrade, a lifelong friend, however delusional that might've been in 2000, and then to have him dip out without saying goodbye. That is the single event that will never bring Billy and James together again. it's really sad.

So less than a year later, Billy and Jimmy are back with a new band, and Chrysanthemum is the first post-Pumpkins song. It's not bitter, pissed off, or at all concerned with dwelling on the past (Bill's forté). it's a beautifully simple and transcendent song and lyric that has a lot of similarities with Muzzle - totally open, honest, reflective, with no excuses or blame laid. "yesterday" was great, but it's time to move on, and here we are. it's one of the few times post-Pumpkins, before Oceania, when he writes a riff in 'classic pumpkins' style and doesn't qualify it like "untitled" with some bullshit "see i can still do it nananana." such a shame that Zwan is a footnote joke in rock history now.

yesterday you still seemed all right
you'd still hold me tight and whisper me my name
now the time has come to let this go

there i go walking straight but backwards
there i go talking upside down
there i go
there i go singing slow but faster
there i go dragging love around
there i go

staying up to find the way you'll always let me bloom
i am a part of everything you've loved and hated so
you know i'd pay a lot to cry, to try to understand
a flower's still a flower crushed to dust inside my hand

we were going somewhere
we were going somewhere

yesterday you still seemed so bold
you'd still draw the road i'd always walk upon

now i've paid for mistakes i've made
for the way i've strayed and never taken pause
now the time has come to let this show

there i go walking straight but backwards
there i go talking upside down
there i go
there i go singing slow but faster
there i go dragging love around
there i go

there i go singing slow but faster sometimes
up inside my youth, to wear a troubled crown
you know i'd pay a lot to cry, to try to understand
a flower's still a flower crushed to dust inside my hand

we were going somewhere
we were going somewhere
we were going somewhere

yesterday
yesterday
yesterday
yesterday we were going somewhere
we were going somewhere


 
Grox is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2015, 06:45 PM   #2
slunken
Virgo
 
slunken's Avatar
 
Posts: 39,289
Default



idk about anyone else, but most of the (early at least) songs seemed really confessional/autobiographical - like i was taking the lyrics as serious fucking business. i mean this song was the very first thing you heard of zwan - it was such a rush. like really packed to the brim and bursting.

that said, pure energy aside - there are much better zwan songs.

 
slunken is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2015, 06:58 PM   #3
Ram27
Minion of Satan
 
Ram27's Avatar
 
Location: Iha: All right! I can't fucking hear you! (laughs) I'm just kidding. Stop your enthusiasm.
Posts: 6,942
Default

fucking yes.

JC kills on the drums for this too.

I do really enjoy the fact that the first word he sang post-pumpkins was 'yesterday'


There are so many good Zwan songs...like all these 2001 rock shows, then those acoustic shows in Indy that were comprised of entirely different songs. There are two damn good albums there! And then MSOTS happened.

 
Ram27 is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2015, 06:59 PM   #4
redbull
Immortal
 
redbull's Avatar
 
Location: like liutenant dan i'm rollin'
Posts: 21,033
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ram27 View Post
There are so many good Zwan songs...like all these 2001 rock shows, then those acoustic shows in Indy that were comprised of entirely different songs. There are two damn good albums there! And then MSOTS happened.
post-sp1 in a nutshell right here

 
redbull is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2015, 08:22 PM   #5
toase
Apocalyptic Poster
 
toase's Avatar
 
Location: AA meetings
Posts: 3,711
Default

I was listened to this today, I love spilled milk too, the guitar parts

I didn't read your text though, sorry

 
toase is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2015, 09:52 PM   #6
Butt Pope
Apocalyptic Poster
 
Posts: 1,606
Default

Zwan was fun

 
Butt Pope is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2015, 10:11 PM   #7
bunny
Demi-God
 
Location: NY, NY, USA
Posts: 345
Default

ruined in the studio. typical bald cunt.
the pre-album material might not have been as pop or condensed concise song writing, but it was honest and full of life.
billy blames the band, but the clown is too blind (even in hindsight) that he disrespected them treating them like children and making them do as he wanted.
fuck that cunt.

 
bunny is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2015, 10:23 PM   #8
toase
Apocalyptic Poster
 
toase's Avatar
 
Location: AA meetings
Posts: 3,711
Default

in a nutshell [2]

 
toase is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2015, 10:28 PM   #9
slunken
Virgo
 
slunken's Avatar
 
Posts: 39,289
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bunny View Post
ruined in the studio.
fuck that cunt.
typical telephone history.

in the grand scheme of things - the album is shaping up to be an unheralded classic.

 
slunken is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2015, 06:03 AM   #10
cardiac
Apocalyptic Poster
 
cardiac's Avatar
 
Location: Finland
Posts: 1,408
Default



These Maide Vale UK sessions still sound fantastic to me. They could've pulled off a fantastic album had they only recorded an album that's essentially polished studio live recordings.

 
cardiac is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2015, 12:45 PM   #11
Grox
Apocalyptic Poster
 
Grox's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,695
Default

the ending riff is really similar to Jellybelly, maybe "we were going somewhere" is a reference to "we're nowhere to be"

 
Grox is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2015, 10:11 PM   #12
wounded
Apocalyptic Poster
 
wounded's Avatar
 
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 3,775
Default

Man people were still stoked for corgan back then. He really had something there with that first batch of songs and then it all went to shit.

 
wounded is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2015, 10:51 PM   #13
dreams of glass
Apocalyptic Poster
 
dreams of glass's Avatar
 
Location: The Bay Area, CA
Posts: 2,222
Default

Live Zwan really does sound better than the album

https://youtu.be/F9PWQpMrku8?t=14m

 
dreams of glass is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2015, 11:30 PM   #14
warewolf95
Pledge
 
warewolf95's Avatar
 
Posts: 74
Default

What's the best sounding version of Chrysanthemum available?

 
warewolf95 is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2015, 11:46 PM   #15
Grox
Apocalyptic Poster
 
Grox's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,695
Default

the first show. second performance is really messy, jimmy must've been railed or something

 
Grox is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2015, 12:22 AM   #16
dreams of glass
Apocalyptic Poster
 
dreams of glass's Avatar
 
Location: The Bay Area, CA
Posts: 2,222
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by slunken View Post


idk about anyone else, but most of the (early at least) songs seemed really confessional/autobiographical - like i was taking the lyrics as serious fucking business. i mean this song was the very first thing you heard of zwan - it was such a rush. like really packed to the brim and bursting.

that said, pure energy aside - there are much better zwan songs.
such as...?

 
dreams of glass is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2015, 12:44 AM   #17
Butt Pope
Apocalyptic Poster
 
Posts: 1,606
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by warewolf95 View Post
What's the best sounding version of Chrysanthemum available?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ

 
Butt Pope is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2015, 12:45 AM   #18
Butt Pope
Apocalyptic Poster
 
Posts: 1,606
Default

old school tom foolery on that one

 
Butt Pope is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2015, 01:36 AM   #19
cardiac
Apocalyptic Poster
 
cardiac's Avatar
 
Location: Finland
Posts: 1,408
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dreams of glass View Post
such as...?


Always felt like the obvious single from all their material. That's one catchy chorus right there.

 
cardiac is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2015, 01:44 AM   #20
Ram27
Minion of Satan
 
Ram27's Avatar
 
Location: Iha: All right! I can't fucking hear you! (laughs) I'm just kidding. Stop your enthusiasm.
Posts: 6,942
Default

It sounds like Learn to Fly

Quality song though


I think Never Give Up has very popular, catchy, radio-y lyrics and riffs. Good song

 
Ram27 is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2015, 01:29 PM   #21
warewolf95
Pledge
 
warewolf95's Avatar
 
Posts: 74
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grox View Post
the first show. second performance is really messy, jimmy must've been railed or something

Thanks for the heads up. I was meaning more in the realms of sound quality vs performance, but thanks anyway.

 
warewolf95 is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2015, 01:29 PM   #22
warewolf95
Pledge
 
warewolf95's Avatar
 
Posts: 74
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Butt Pope View Post
thanks mate

 
warewolf95 is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2015, 01:52 PM   #23
Rocket Launcher
Ownz
 
Rocket Launcher's Avatar
 
Location: europe of heterogeneity
Posts: 989
Default

I really hope a studio version of this magically appears someday

 
Rocket Launcher is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2015, 06:09 PM   #24
slunken
Virgo
 
slunken's Avatar
 
Posts: 39,289
Default

i would just like for the NO SBDS thing to be lifted from the zwan archive.

 
slunken is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2015, 06:10 PM   #25
slunken
Virgo
 
slunken's Avatar
 
Posts: 39,289
Default

somebody should start uploading them as AUDSBD

 
slunken is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2015, 06:12 PM   #26
bunny
Demi-God
 
Location: NY, NY, USA
Posts: 345
Default

didn't we trade those out on theHUB anyways?

 
bunny is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2015, 07:35 PM   #27
Rocket Launcher
Ownz
 
Rocket Launcher's Avatar
 
Location: europe of heterogeneity
Posts: 989
Default

ask the rat bastard maybe? what up with fogelsong?

 
Rocket Launcher is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2015, 01:54 PM   #28
IWishIWasBlank
Apocalyptic Poster
 
IWishIWasBlank's Avatar
 
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 4,407
Default

Good to see that Corganist returned under the guise of "Grox," toting the standard 'Billy is perfection.' attitude.

There was a shit ton of potential for post-Pumpkins. I don't recall what happened but for some reason I was offline when Zwan began to break, and when I came back, it was done, I had missed the boat and the pulse on something that could have been cool to get into. To this day, it's just not what it could have been for me.

 
IWishIWasBlank is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2015, 05:23 PM   #29
slunken
Virgo
 
slunken's Avatar
 
Posts: 39,289
Default

I havent done a fuck ton of research but i think the glass house dat-re-transfer is the best sounding early show

 
slunken is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2019, 07:39 PM   #30
Ram27
Minion of Satan
 
Ram27's Avatar
 
Location: Iha: All right! I can't fucking hear you! (laughs) I'm just kidding. Stop your enthusiasm.
Posts: 6,942
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grox View Post
That is the single event that will never bring Billy and James together again. it's really sad.
love your ode to Chrysanthemum so much but this part....


 
Ram27 is offline
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Google


Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
shit fuckers can type! sickbadthing General Chat Message Board 60 05-23-2019 12:18 PM
Star Wars Episode 7 MyOneAndOnly General Chat Message Board 1073 10-07-2016 11:54 AM
netphorian haikus Dogfighter28 General Chat Archive 93 08-04-2013 11:53 AM
Does anyone care about this BOARD ANYMORE? gpub General Chat Archive 30 09-27-2011 08:54 PM
My best friend's wife left him.... House of Bread General Chat Archive 72 05-11-2009 03:52 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:31 AM.




Smashing Pumpkins, Alternative Music
& General Discussion Message Board and Forums
www.netphoria.org - Copyright © 1998-2019