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Old 11-23-2015, 05:03 PM   #1
redbreegull
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Default Judas O appreciation thread

I've been meaning to make this thread for a few weeks and since people started shitting on J0 in the skipped tracks thread, I figured this was the correct time. Judas 0 is a cold weather album to me. Not sure why, but every year when winter comes around I feel like spinning Judas 0. Admittedly, it is an extremely flawed collection. It had the potential to be the Pisces Iscariot of the Adore and Machina eras, but including songs from TAFH and MII was a serious mistake. TAFH already stood as the MCIS era companion to PI, and Machina II was free, so there was no reason to release those songs in comparable quality.

Having said that, there is a lot of brilliance that shines through on some of the other tracks. My Mistake is a great little number, I sometimes think of it as a companion to Soothe. Here's to the Atom Bomb is the superior version for sure. Although the one on the end of MII is good also and fits better there, the snarly fuzzy energy of this one is supreme. Sparrow is reminiscent of earlier Pumpkins, and has a Tonight single vibe. The way his voice breaks a bit as he switches into the falsetto in the choruses is sublime. Saturnine is also the superior version, feeling much tighter and more focused than what it evolved into on MII. I know people hate Rock On but it's such a great example of the power of the band live. The drums are killer and the whole thing has this fast and loose feel. The last three songs also receive so much hate but I don't get it either. They sort of have this quiet, reflective quality... an acceptance of grief and loss maybe. Blissed and Gone seems to actually be about the band breaking up and sits perfectly at the end of the album.

The real winner here though is Waiting, which is one of the most underrated SP songs.

 
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Old 11-23-2015, 05:45 PM   #2
T&T
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Judas isn't a real album to me like Pieces... just a salad of extra tracks. TAFH songs should NOT be on here. some of them are great tracks, but I don't get the flow. M2 isn't even a year old so I don't need to hear them dig up those songs like deep tracks so soon.


UNNECESSARY
that's 4 TAFH songs that are out of era. (# 2,5,7 & 13)
I love these songs, but they don't belong in this era.
MCIS and TAFH is such a complete mass of time (95-97), they're out of place here.

THE BORING
4 home demo tracks that should have never gotten an official release... (#6,9,14&15).
if he cut out two of them or worked them out properly I'd be more appreciative.
sure Soot and starts is drenched in delay and reverb, but it's the same thing for he whole track...
I love sooth and stumbeline, but these acoustic tracks pale in comparison.


MEH
#3, 11. too similar. lets go with one or the other...

THE GOOD
#4 & 8


THE GREAT
# 1,10,12 &16
I love Blissed and Waiting..
Rock On is a great rocking addition, and Lucky 13 is an outlier from M2 that I enjoy in all forms...


Quote:
1 "Lucky 13" -
2 "Aeroplane Flies High"
3 "Because You Are"
4 "Slow Dawn"
5 "Believe"
6 "My Mistake"
7 "Marquis in Spades"
8 "Here's to the Atom Bomb"
9 "Sparrow"
10 "Waiting"
11 "Saturnine"
12 "Rock On"
13 "Set the Ray to Jerry"
14 "Winterlong"
15 "Soot and Stars"
16 "Blissed and Gone"

Last edited by T&T : 11-23-2015 at 05:51 PM.

 
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Old 11-23-2015, 07:03 PM   #3
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Waiting has such a surprisingly weak outro for such a good song. Even today, listening to the song close out, I'm like... is that it?

 
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Old 11-23-2015, 07:59 PM   #4
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Wasn't the consensus among fans that the tracklisting was uneven and repetative because we figured Billy needed to balance what casual fans would like and what diehards wanted?

Remember this was less than a year after the breakup and a Pumpkins Singles Collection was definitely something I can see gathering interest. So for Joe Public, who wants Today and Rat in a Cage (and has no idea about anything post Mcis), what other songs could appeal to him? But also diehards need something, thus crap demos like soot n stars.

 
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Old 11-23-2015, 08:01 PM   #5
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Rock and a hard place n all that

 
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Old 11-23-2015, 08:44 PM   #6
Order 66
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should've been a bigger, standalone album but because of Virgin legalese there was no way around it

I think it's great for what it is but I'm nostalgic about that whole era. obvs bias

 
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Old 11-23-2015, 09:00 PM   #7
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It was also notable for me as the beginning of an era in which I would have to try to convince myself that BC's songs were good. I mean, of course "Because you are" was not listenable b/c I was approaching it wrong, right? Little did I know that this would be the perpetual state of the 21st century SP fan.

 
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Old 11-23-2015, 10:22 PM   #8
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i just realized it's "judas zero" and not "judas o" (like oh)

how dumb am i on a scale of dumb to super dumb

 
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Old 11-23-2015, 11:12 PM   #9
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it's judas o, like baba o

 
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Old 11-23-2015, 11:14 PM   #10
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jackie o
karen o

 
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Old 11-23-2015, 11:38 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reprise85 View Post
i just realized it's "judas zero" and not "judas o" (like oh)

how dumb am i on a scale of dumb to super dumb
I'm betting most people thought it was oh

 
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Old 11-23-2015, 11:39 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Order 66 View Post
should've been a bigger, standalone album but because of Virgin legalese there was no way around it

I think it's great for what it is but I'm nostalgic about that whole era. obvs bias
I remember going to best buy the day of! Didn't the dvd come out the same day? Grabbed that too.

 
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Old 11-24-2015, 12:07 AM   #13
Ram27
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Don't think I've ever heard Judas 0 formally

Just from the thread I think Drain would fit nicely into the album. Very cool, wintery, yet warm acoustic demo from the era



_________________________________

Rock On is awesome cause Jimmy and live SBDs are always very exciting to me for some reason

Quote:
Originally Posted by NovaFritz View Post
It was also notable for me as the beginning of an era in which I would have to try to convince myself that BC's songs were good. I mean, of course "Because you are" was not listenable b/c I was approaching it wrong, right? Little did I know that this would be the perpetual state of the 21st century SP fan.
miss u d'arcy

 
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Old 11-24-2015, 12:09 AM   #14
T&T
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reprise85 View Post
i just realized it's "judas zero" and not "judas o" (like oh)

how dumb am i on a scale of dumb to super dumb
don't worry, it's ok.

 
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Old 11-24-2015, 12:10 AM   #15
Shadaloo
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At the time Judas came out, I somehow hadn't managed yet to find a copy of TAFH so those songs were kind of a revelation to me. Easy to see in retrospect how it was rehash. I enjoy most of the Adore outtakes though, and prefer that version of Atom Bomb to the MII.

Agreed that it's a good winter listen. I pretty much listened to it through the whole of that season, still remember trying to keep my discman level so it wouldn't skip on cold walks up the street to my friend's.

Do we really feel in these troubling, post-Monuments times that Because You Are is still the worst thing Billy ever wrote? Really?

 
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Old 11-24-2015, 12:39 AM   #16
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it makes no attempt to be a pleasant listen

at least he's trying with drum and fife and stuff

 
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Old 11-24-2015, 12:39 AM   #17
teh b0lly!!1
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remember when bill wrote the line "i'm just a simple silent humble human being" in sparrow

lol

 
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Old 11-24-2015, 02:40 AM   #18
christian zombie vampires
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every time i've listened to rock on i am transported to an alternate universe where billy doubled down and went full nWo and scooped up james and melissa replacements from the breakup of methods of mayhem and smashing pumpkins has been a mainstay headliner at gathering of the juggalos since 2004

 
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Old 11-24-2015, 04:13 AM   #19
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its a weird album but keeping in mind it was a bonus disc for rotten apples, lots of people buying that would not have heard TAFH or M2 songs.

the thing is just overlong and a couple tracks are highly skippable (Waiting, Because You Are, Sparrow)...

but it gave us a brilliant gift in "Soot and Stars". Yeah, feels more like a Billy Corgan song than a Smashing Pumpkins track. Still one of the best.

 
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Old 11-24-2015, 09:45 AM   #20
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Time makes everyone forget.

 
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Old 11-24-2015, 11:34 AM   #21
D.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadaloo View Post
Do we really feel in these troubling, post-Monuments times that Because You Are is still the worst thing Billy ever wrote? Really?
This is for 1987-2000. 2007-present does not exist. Because You Are is unforgivable.

 
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Old 11-24-2015, 12:20 PM   #22
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It is meant to be pronounced "Judas Oh", because the "O" stands for Baba O'Reilly. Judas O'Reilly, you see. He betrayed rock. Or rock betrayed him.

Billy actually said this.

 
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Old 11-24-2015, 01:30 PM   #23
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i thought it was just an inverse of Pisces Iscariot

isn't the o with a line through it some sort of fish-related "bees wax"

 
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Old 11-24-2015, 05:46 PM   #24
myosis
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casual fans probably all bought the single disk version of Rotten Apples with just the singles. and they probably skip a bunch of tracks even on that one.

 
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Old 11-24-2015, 08:05 PM   #25
NovaFritz
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because you are
because you are
because you are
because you are
because you are

i've got the trauma to stay
because you are
i scar the stranger betray
all of my senses ashamed
i will deny all that i'm afraid
lies will disguise
rules of time and endgames

because you are
because you are
because you are
because you are
because you are

i chew the rust off my face
because you are
i wipe the stain off my haze
because you are
i am released, born of age
because you are
i stare inside empty faith

i will deny all that i'm afraid
lies will disguise
rules of time and endgames
because you are

because you are
because you are
because you are
because you are
rinse the scars off my skin
because you are
i touch the scars of your skin
because you are
i let the travel begin
because you are
i let the travel begin
because you are
i let the travel begin

because you are
because you are
because you are
because you are
because you are

i've got the trauma to stay
because you are
i scar the stranger betray
all of my senses ashamed
i will deny all that i'm afraid
lies will disguise
rules of time and endgames

because you are
because you are
because you are
because you are
because you are

i chew the rust off my face
because you are
i wipe the stain off my haze
because you are
i am released, born of age
because you are
i stare inside empty faith

i will deny all that i'm afraid
lies will disguise
rules of time and endgames
because you are

because you are
because you are
because you are
because you are
rinse the scars off my skin
because you are
i touch the scars of your skin
because you are
i let the travel begin
because you are
i let the travel begin
because you are
i let the travel begin

because you are
because you are
because you are
because you are
because you are

i've got the trauma to stay
because you are
i scar the stranger betray
all of my senses ashamed
i will deny all that i'm afraid
lies will disguise
rules of time and endgames

because you are
because you are
because you are
because you are
because you are

i chew the rust off my face
because you are
i wipe the stain off my haze
because you are
i am released, born of age
because you are
i stare inside empty faith

i will deny all that i'm afraid
lies will disguise
rules of time and endgames
because you are

because you are
because you are
because you are
because you are
rinse the scars off my skin
because you are
i touch the scars of your skin
because you are
i let the travel begin
because you are
i let the travel begin
because you are
i let the travel begin

my love is strange
because you are
because you are
because you are
because you are
because you are

i've got the trauma to stay
because you are
i scar the stranger betray
all of my senses ashamed
i will deny all that i'm afraid
lies will disguise
rules of time and endgames

because you are
because you are
because you are
because you are
because you are

i chew the rust off my face
because you are
i wipe the stain off my haze
because you are
i am released, born of age
because you are
i stare inside empty faith

i will deny all that i'm afraid
lies will disguise
rules of time and endgames
because you are

because you are
because you are
because you are
because you are
rinse the scars off my skin
because you are
i touch the scars of your skin
because you are
i let the travel begin
because you are
i let the travel begin
because you are
i let the travel begin

because you are
because you are
because you are
because you are
because you are

i've got the trauma to stay
because you are
i scar the stranger betray
all of my senses ashamed
i will deny all that i'm afraid
lies will disguise
rules of time and endgames

because you are
because you are
because you are
because you are
because you are

i chew the rust off my face
because you are
i wipe the stain off my haze
because you are
i am released, born of age
because you are
i stare inside empty faith

i will deny all that i'm afraid
lies will disguise
rules of time and endgames
because you are

because you are
because you are
because you are
because you are
rinse the scars off my skin
because you are
i touch the scars of your skin
because you are
i let the travel begin
because you are
i let the travel begin
because you are
i let the travel begin

 
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Old 11-24-2015, 08:16 PM   #26
redbreegull
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Because You Are sounds a bit like Raindrops and Sunshowers but is somehow even more repetitive, boring, and unrewarding. I do like the little melody that comes in after the mantra like BECAUSE YOU ARE part.

 
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Old 11-24-2015, 08:17 PM   #27
redbreegull
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It's interesting that everyone agrees that Judas 0 is a mixed bag with about half good songs and half bad/unnecessary songs, but the way each of us has broken down that dichotomy is totally different.

 
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Old 11-24-2015, 08:35 PM   #28
Order 66
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Oh yeah I forgot because you are is on this

talk about bottom of the barrel yeesh

 
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Old 11-24-2015, 09:14 PM   #29
Grox
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soot and stars is fucking brilliant gtfo haters

 
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Old 11-24-2015, 09:40 PM   #30
Shadaloo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NovaFritz View Post
because you are
because you are
because you are
because you are
because you are

i've got the trauma to stay
because you are
i scar the stranger betray
all of my senses ashamed
i will deny all that i'm afraid
lies will disguise
rules of time and endgames

because you are
because you are
because you are
because you are
because you are

i chew the rust off my face
because you are
i wipe the stain off my haze
because you are
i am released, born of age
because you are
i stare inside empty faith

i will deny all that i'm afraid
lies will disguise
rules of time and endgames
because you are

because you are
because you are
because you are
because you are
rinse the scars off my skin
because you are
i touch the scars of your skin
because you are
i let the travel begin
because you are
i let the travel begin
because you are
i let the travel begin

because you are
because you are
because you are
because you are
because you are

i've got the trauma to stay
because you are
i scar the stranger betray
all of my senses ashamed
i will deny all that i'm afraid
lies will disguise
rules of time and endgames

because you are
because you are
because you are
because you are
because you are

i chew the rust off my face
because you are
i wipe the stain off my haze
because you are
i am released, born of age
because you are
i stare inside empty faith

i will deny all that i'm afraid
lies will disguise
rules of time and endgames
because you are

because you are
because you are
because you are
because you are
rinse the scars off my skin
because you are
i touch the scars of your skin
because you are
i let the travel begin
because you are
i let the travel begin
because you are
i let the travel begin

because you are
because you are
because you are
because you are
because you are

i've got the trauma to stay
because you are
i scar the stranger betray
all of my senses ashamed
i will deny all that i'm afraid
lies will disguise
rules of time and endgames

because you are
because you are
because you are
because you are
because you are

i chew the rust off my face
because you are
i wipe the stain off my haze
because you are
i am released, born of age
because you are
i stare inside empty faith

i will deny all that i'm afraid
lies will disguise
rules of time and endgames
because you are

because you are
because you are
because you are
because you are
rinse the scars off my skin
because you are
i touch the scars of your skin
because you are
i let the travel begin
because you are
i let the travel begin
because you are
i let the travel begin

my love is strange
because you are
because you are
because you are
because you are
because you are

i've got the trauma to stay
because you are
i scar the stranger betray
all of my senses ashamed
i will deny all that i'm afraid
lies will disguise
rules of time and endgames

because you are
because you are
because you are
because you are
because you are

i chew the rust off my face
because you are
i wipe the stain off my haze
because you are
i am released, born of age
because you are
i stare inside empty faith

i will deny all that i'm afraid
lies will disguise
rules of time and endgames
because you are

because you are
because you are
because you are
because you are
rinse the scars off my skin
because you are
i touch the scars of your skin
because you are
i let the travel begin
because you are
i let the travel begin
because you are
i let the travel begin

because you are
because you are
because you are
because you are
because you are

i've got the trauma to stay
because you are
i scar the stranger betray
all of my senses ashamed
i will deny all that i'm afraid
lies will disguise
rules of time and endgames

because you are
because you are
because you are
because you are
because you are

i chew the rust off my face
because you are
i wipe the stain off my haze
because you are
i am released, born of age
because you are
i stare inside empty faith

i will deny all that i'm afraid
lies will disguise
rules of time and endgames
because you are

because you are
because you are
because you are
because you are
rinse the scars off my skin
because you are
i touch the scars of your skin
because you are
i let the travel begin
because you are
i let the travel begin
because you are
i let the travel begin
WAAAAAAAIT A MINUTE

 
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