Machina reissue a go

[MonumentsRocks]

Originally Posted by BurtSampson

Why is he such a prick about the soniclovenoize tracklisting? He says it’s self important bullshit, which makes no sense

A lot of people are saying it's an asshole remark, and that's not untrue, but I think the bigger issue is just how self destructive it is to any business to treat their customers that way, and if we drop the pretense, he's a business and we're his customers. I think he behavior shows that he should be talking to a mental health professional about issues probably relating to anger management and a lack of self confidence, the former in relation to the latter, and that's a sincere observation, not meant to be an insult.

People with such problems often take the view that it's only a problem if it impacts your life, like you don't have a problem with rock collecting unless your rock collection somehow negatively impacts you or the people around you, I don't think anyone can argue at this point that Billy's abnormal reactions to various situations has caused serious damage to his career.

[amoergosum]

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#MACHINA: the good news is that the archive on Machina is easily the most documented of the first 5 SP LP’s, the bad news is there is simply so much to go through that it’s hard to keep track. Given the high interest, I will endeavor to parse out the process. The media (digital tapes, home demos, 24 track reels, 2 track masters, and whatever safety backups exist of each) have to be gone through systemically; with a painstaking eye towards things easily missed; like a massive library stacked with books and their copies. Thus far, I’ve gone through about 80 pct of the DAT’s (digital audio cassettes, which were transferred to hard drives years ago). Sold as an economical form of storage in the 90’s, DAT’s have proven to be unreliable, as they degrade with age; and there are certainly instances here where good media has been ruined pre-transfer. And by ruined I mean you’ll be listening to a perfectly good take when there is a glitch or digital spike (essentially a computer-like ‘error’), for which there is no repair. So thankfully I went out of my way, and at great expense, to transfer these tapes 10 years or so ago. So back to the hunt, hard drive after hard drive of sessions, rough mixes, home demos made on the fly, live rehearsals, home sketches, picking anything with relevance and placing them into a pile so that I can compare and contrast what is the best ‘source’. For example, a rough mix of say ‘Try, Try, Try’ may have 5 iterations; with a mix made when all the guitars were finished with a quick vocal thrown on that is not the final vocal. Perhaps the lyrics are different, etc? And even if you have something listenable, there may be a backup that is the ‘same’ (IE an exact duplicate) that for whatever reason sounds better/clearer. So all round 2 music would need to be compared and contrasted for optimal audio. Then (and this is yet to come) you’d look to see if you had the original tapes, tapes that could be mixed anew; which if you chosen to go that route would need to be transferred digitally (figure 24-48 individual parts: vocals, guitars, bass, drums, keys). For often times something done in the moment can have more vibe but not as much fidelity.

Ein Beitrag geteilt von WilliamPatrickCorgan (@williampcorgan) am Okt 27, 2018 um 6:04 PDT

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#MACHINA-part 2: So, once all the DAT’s are gone through (the next, as yet untouched, DAT pile being live board tapes from 99-00) that leaves me with sourcing final 2-track masters; which is what you’d recognize as the familiar versions on Machina 1 and 2. But note, as yet we have little documentation what exact mix was used for any given song, so in some cases we might have to make an educated guess. For many songs might have 15-20 separate mixes (vocal up, vocal down, guitar up but with vocal down, etc). As well, I’d like to remix many songs for the final, resequenced and definitive Machina album. So after sourcing what 24 track masters we do have in storage, we are attempting to access the EMI database, with most of those tapes stored out of state. For Universal owns Machina 1 while we own Machina 2. But that does not mean a/ we have all of Machina 2 or b/ they have all of Machina 1. As well, some reels were stolen a few years ago (long story) from a local, Chicago studio. Assuming all can be ‘found’, for there are safety copies of all reels and even the stolen ones may have stored backups, all those would need to be transferred after being baked in a special oven (as the tapes tend to stick together over time, so care must be taken). Upon which I’d hire a mixer and dive in to recreate and mix fresh some 30-40 songs. This I spell out for those asking every day ‘when is this box set coming out?’ As of now, there is no easy answer.

Ein Beitrag geteilt von WilliamPatrickCorgan (@williampcorgan) am Okt 27, 2018 um 6:27 PDT

[johncg]

Originally Posted by Forgotten Child

I hope it was monte

Monte getting sued by Billy.

[MonumentsRocks]

OK I found out later Billy was referencing this http://albumsthatneverwere.blogspot....glass-and.html I can see what that would piss off Billy. The guy acts like he knows what Billy is thinking before he even thinks it. Self-important was a fitting adjective.

[pavementtune]

why do these updates on the machina reissue sound like nobody had lifted a finger before now. this was announced for 2013, talked about it back then, then "on hold due to legal issues" - now it sounds like he discovers the machina archive for the first time.

[Forgotten Child]

View this post on Instagram

#MACHINA

A post shared by Smashing Pumpkins (@smashingpumpkins) on Oct 29, 2018 at 11:37am PDT

[Mals Marola]

Originally Posted by smashingjj

Yeah fuck you a million times, Corgan. This was done by someone actually admiring your work and if i made it not clear enough, Machina fucking sucks.

Self-important, unlike something you would do right, Billy Christ?

Yeah of all the shit he's posted so far, this response was probably the most out of line

[Mals Marola]

Originally Posted by pavementtune

why do these updates on the machina reissue sound like nobody had lifted a finger before now. this was announced for 2013, talked about it back then, then "on hold due to legal issues" - now it sounds like he discovers the machina archive for the first time.

“I was lying,” he grunts.

Is he lying now?

“What do you think?”

[Oklahoma Sexual]

Originally Posted by amoergosum

he seems to forget a bunch of shit regarding this era. it's at least plausible he is the source of the leak and simply forgot. can someone DM him his own name?

[Zer0 Hour]

Originally Posted by Forgotten Child

View this post on Instagram

#MACHINA

A post shared by Smashing Pumpkins (@smashingpumpkins) on Oct 29, 2018 at 11:37am PDT

What song is this? Sounds pretty cool.

[topleybird]

Originally Posted by MonumentsRocks

The guy acts like he knows what Billy is thinking before he even thinks it. Self-important was a fitting adjective.

"The guy" posts here as soniclovenoize and I don't see how you can find that project anything other than a labor of love

[topleybird]

Originally Posted by Zer0 Hour

What song is this? Sounds pretty cool.

Wound, yeah? I hear the verse riff pretty clearly

[FoolofaTook]

Originally Posted by topleybird

"The guy" posts here as soniclovenoize and I don't see how you can find that project anything other than a labor of love

luvin' u is a labor

[Forgotten Child]

Yes, it sounds like wound

[FoolofaTook]

good job guys. i was going to stay up all night agonizing over what song that is but you have given me peace.

[Zer0 Hour]

Huh. Yeah, that might be Wound. Wow, what a difference it makes when you remove Billy's awful vocals.

[Forgotten Child]

There you are

[MonumentsRocks]

Originally Posted by topleybird

"The guy" posts here as soniclovenoize and I don't see how you can find that project anything other than a labor of love

http://albumsthatneverwere.blogspot....glass-and.html

"Reconstructing Glass and The Machines of God is no easy task. Corgan has been extremely vague and cryptic about how it would have been constructed, in as much as leaking false numerical codes allegedly forming track sequences. Point of fact, of the 30-or-so songs recording during the sessions, Corgan has only divulged the narrative context of “Blue Skies Bring Tears”, “Speed Kills” and “With Every Light”. Luckily Corgan has leaked a blueprint of the song cycle itself with a list of 17 of the cycle’s songs, all offering varying ways the songs could fit into the cycle. Using this map, as well as song lyric interpretation matched with the synopsis of the album’s story written in Corgan’s typical superfluous prose, we are able to chart out a track sequence."

Aside from the numerous unnecessary insults towards Billy sprinkled all throughout the post, this paragraph here plainly states the intent to complete something Billy left unfinished, in Billy's place.

Imagine if a famous painter died before completing a painting, it would presumptuous and preposterous to think an art historian could finish the painting for on the artist's behalf by merely analyzing that artist's style, and applying their own interpretation of that style, and then further, try to imply they've somehow "mapped out" the artists intent through that subjective process. If I'm Billy and I see this, I'd think this guy didn't like that I chose to leave some piece of art unfinished, and so he presumed to finish it for me. To an artist, that must be very offensive.

[smashingjj]

sure, or flattering, that someone would put all that time into it. If you're any artist except Billy Corgan, that is

[tweedyburd]

Originally Posted by pavementtune

why do these updates on the machina reissue sound like nobody had lifted a finger before now. this was announced for 2013, talked about it back then, then "on hold due to legal issues" - now it sounds like he discovers the machina archive for the first time.

This.

I seem to recall he made several posts/updates about diving into this reissue before he hit a legal snag, then shelved it.

[MyKeyZ]

Yeah, Billy is a bit of a cunt with his reaction. I didn't see anything wrong with the guy who tried to connection Machina. He did it out of love and it is not the definitive order. It amazes me what pisses Billy off and it's usual such a benign thing. Some of his responses on Instagram really makes him look like a douche.

[MonumentsRocks]

Originally Posted by smashingjj

sure, or flattering, that someone would put all that time into it. If you're any artist except Billy Corgan, that is

There's nothing wrong with someone arranging the songs in a way that they believe tells a narrative, and even going so far as to justify their arrangement at length, but to act as though you're interpreting the intentions of the artist himself is offensive to an artist, who values their independence extremely highly. It's the same general reason Tracy Chapman sued Nicki Minaj, Minaj violated Chapman's control over her own artistic work. To an artist, their art is like their children, especially if they feel the art is revealing about them as people, and not just some impersonal commissioned work.

[smashingjj]

Originally Posted by MonumentsRocks

Imagine if a famous painter died before completing a painting, it would presumptuous and preposterous to think an art historian could finish the painting for on the artist's behalf by merely analyzing that artist's style, and applying their own interpretation of that style, and then further, try to imply they've somehow "mapped out" the artists intent through that subjective process. If I'm Billy and I see this, I'd think this guy didn't like that I chose to leave some piece of art unfinished, and so he presumed to finish it for me. To an artist, that must be very offensive.

you're not seriously this silly right? Corgan did not die and said dude never 'finished' machina as Corgan left it unfinished somewhere. it was finished, released, but apparently not in the way Corgan wanted and the dude just posted his ideal track list

don't trick yourself into believing Corgan is the Van Gogh of music

[smashingjj]

Originally Posted by MonumentsRocks

There's nothing wrong with someone arranging the songs in a way that they believe tells a narrative, and even going so far as to justify their arrangement at length, but to act as though you're interpreting the intentions of the artist himself is offensive to an artist, who values their independence extremely highly. It's the same general reason Tracy Chapman sued Nicki Minaj, Minaj violated Chapman's control over her own artistic work.

well ok lol I can't wait for the Corgan vs soniclovenoize trial

[soniclovenoize]

Originally Posted by MonumentsRocks

bla bla bla

lol Who the fuck is this guy?

[FoolofaTook]

HE

IS

A

TROLL

[MonumentsRocks]

Originally Posted by smashingjj

you're not seriously this silly right? Corgan did not die and said dude never 'finished' machina as Corgan left it unfinished somewhere. it was finished, released, but apparently not in the way Corgan wanted and the dude just posted his ideal track list

If what you're saying were true, Corgan would not have felt insulted by it.

Originally Posted by smashingjj

don't trick yourself into believing Corgan is the Van Gogh of music

The fact that I used paintings as an example doesn't mean I'm comparing Corgan to Van Gogh.

[FoolofaTook]

you also used nicky nimaj as an example

[topleybird]

Originally Posted by MonumentsRocks

If what you're saying were true, Corgan would not have felt insulted by it.

That famously level-headed and secure singer we all know and love, Billy, Corgan,,

[MonumentsRocks]

Originally Posted by topleybird

That famously level-headed and secure singer we all know and love, Billy, Corgan,,

Stoic exemplar of reasoned judgement and emotional maturity Billy Corgan didn't become upset because, quote "the dude just posted his ideal track list".