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Old 09-11-2017, 02:54 AM   #1
Jelly Blossom
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Default Can William Get His Groove Back?

I'm not the biggest Billy/SP fan. I've always felt he was a terrible singer, over-rated as a songwriter and in general just a malcontent who's over exaggerated many elements of his life in order to sell himself to the record buying public.

I got into the Pumpkins in the late 90s, around the Adore era, right at the end of what many would consider the "golden age" of the group's popularity. Admittedly I got into the group a little late, partially due to my age and partially due to my disliking Corgan's voice and how weird and awkward he came across in his interviews and appearances.

That being said, there was a period of time in the late 90s-early 2000s where his level of proficiency didn't affect the quality of material he was producing. IMO that period was between 1997-2000 (though I'm sure many would incIude the Siamese Dream and Mellon Collie periods in that, which is fair I suppose), but there's a lot of material from this period that's impressive, such as "Ava Adore", "Crestfallen", "Stand Inside Your Love", "Slow Dawn", "Untitled", "Pug", "Speed Kills", etc..

I personally like Zeitgeist, though I know that's not a popular sentiment with SP fans. And while there definitely were some questionable compositions ("(Come On) Let's Go!", "United States") by and large the quality of material on the album isn't as bad as people seem to want to think it is.

For me, Billy lost any magic he had after Jimmy left in early 2009. I don't say that meaning he lost it specifically because Jimmy left, but more in a cause and effect was as I think Jimmy leaving led Billy to officially start defining himself as The Smashing Pumpkins.

With this mindset he went full force in the direction of the failed Teargarden project and his attempt to find a backing band, and he got overconfident in his songwriting abilities during the time when he lost his ability to write any significant amount of quality material. His overconfidence wouldn't allow himself to see that glaring fact despite the Teargarden material not gaining much critical praise (or that many downloads despite being free). So in usual Billy fashion he over-reacted, fired everybody (except Jeff) and put a hault to the Teargarden project with little fanfare.

After that we got Monuments which is easily the worst Pumpkins record, and now we're getting RadioGaGa or whatever the new album's called. Which, after listening to "Aeronaut" a whole whoppin' two times I have no interest in listening to the album, much less buying it when it comes out.

So when do you think that Billy lost his groove? As stated above I personally think it was in 2009 when Jimmy quite working with him which was followed by a server drop in quality from Billy.

Do you think he could get it back, or do you think he's past his prime and should be put down like an old dog or racing horse?

 
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Old 09-11-2017, 03:25 AM   #2
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Old 09-11-2017, 05:24 AM   #3
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wait, united states is questionable? it's one of the best songs on the record

when? sometime around 2003 when MSTOS came out without any of the great earlier zwan stuff

get it back? if there's a proper reunion, some of the magic will be back, everyone will be excited. it'll be...better, at least

 
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Old 09-11-2017, 06:16 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jelly Blossom View Post
I'm not the biggest Billy/SP fan. I've always felt he was a terrible singer, over-rated as a songwriter and in general just a malcontent who's over exaggerated many elements of his life in order to sell himself to the record buying public.

I got into the Pumpkins in the late 90s, around the Adore era, right at the end of what many would consider the "golden age" of the group's popularity. Admittedly I got into the group a little late, partially due to my age and partially due to my disliking Corgan's voice and how weird and awkward he came across in his interviews and appearances.

That being said, there was a period of time in the late 90s-early 2000s where his level of proficiency didn't affect the quality of material he was producing. IMO that period was between 1997-2000 (though I'm sure many would incIude the Siamese Dream and Mellon Collie periods in that, which is fair I suppose), but there's a lot of material from this period that's impressive, such as "Ava Adore", "Crestfallen", "Stand Inside Your Love", "Slow Dawn", "Untitled", "Pug", "Speed Kills", etc..

I personally like Zeitgeist, though I know that's not a popular sentiment with SP fans. And while there definitely were some questionable compositions ("(Come On) Let's Go!", "United States") by and large the quality of material on the album isn't as bad as people seem to want to think it is.

For me, Billy lost any magic he had after Jimmy left in early 2009. I don't say that meaning he lost it specifically because Jimmy left, but more in a cause and effect was as I think Jimmy leaving led Billy to officially start defining himself as The Smashing Pumpkins.

With this mindset he went full force in the direction of the failed Teargarden project and his attempt to find a backing band, and he got overconfident in his songwriting abilities during the time when he lost his ability to write any significant amount of quality material. His overconfidence wouldn't allow himself to see that glaring fact despite the Teargarden material not gaining much critical praise (or that many downloads despite being free). So in usual Billy fashion he over-reacted, fired everybody (except Jeff) and put a hault to the Teargarden project with little fanfare.

After that we got Monuments which is easily the worst Pumpkins record, and now we're getting RadioGaGa or whatever the new album's called. Which, after listening to "Aeronaut" a whole whoppin' two times I have no interest in listening to the album, much less buying it when it comes out.

So when do you think that Billy lost his groove? As stated above I personally think it was in 2009 when Jimmy quite working with him which was followed by a server drop in quality from Billy.

Do you think he could get it back, or do you think he's past his prime and should be put down like an old dog or racing horse?
It is happy to see your posting. Yes really informative points. I will tell this information again to my friend thank you?

 
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Old 09-11-2017, 08:19 AM   #5
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MADRE DE DIOS

 
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Old 09-11-2017, 08:20 AM   #6
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ASPIRADORA

 
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Old 09-11-2017, 02:26 PM   #7
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Billy Corgan melted faces, shredded souls, rocked silver pants, screamed and and acted every bit the young hungry rockstar he was.

William Patrick Corgan is a millionaire who wears healing crystals, owns a tea shop, sings with vibrato oozing over everything and braids prayers (whatever the fuck Jessica Simpson meant by that).

The full fire will never return without him magically de-aging 20 years. The best one can hope for is he stops surrounding himself with yes-men and gets people who can challenge him to write something with a bit of bite. I don't think age is the end-all be-all deciding factor, plenty of older artists can create poignant works, but the anger ain't coming back. Something that sounds inspired is about the best one can hope for.

 
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Old 09-11-2017, 04:16 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ram27 View Post
when? sometime around 2003 when MSTOS came out without any of the great earlier zwan stuff
Bingo. This is exactly it. I still liked MSOTS, but it was far removed from what made Glass House so exciting, and alongside the bands implosion, marked a turning point in Billy's song-writing. I haven't truly enjoyed an album he's put out since.

 
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Old 09-11-2017, 04:57 PM   #9
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Stellar showed that he still had it. Some glimpses on Oceania too. But I would agree that the Machina era is the last time where I can really pinpoint any cohesive groove.

 
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Old 09-11-2017, 06:04 PM   #10
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I really love Aeronaut, not sure many others do. I listened to it about 900 times which is very rare for me. Best thing bobo has done since Bleeding the Orchid.

I think he still has it, he just needs a decent fucking band.

 
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Old 09-11-2017, 10:08 PM   #11
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Have you ever considered self murder?

 
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Old 09-11-2017, 10:37 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brisk View Post
I really love Aeronaut, not sure many others do. I listened to it about 900 times which is very rare for me. Best thing bobo has done since Bleeding the Orchid.

I think he still has it, he just needs a decent fucking band.
How many bots post here on the reg? It has to be a ratio of seven bots to one human poster.

 
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Old 09-11-2017, 10:40 PM   #13
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some part of him may still have it: you can't play guitar at that level, write songs on that level, then just become complete shit

but you need a band, human beings with equal standing to tell you your ideas are shit

 
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Old 09-12-2017, 03:11 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ram27 View Post
but you need a band, human beings with equal standing to tell you your ideas are shit

Billy Corgan on D'arcy:

"As I've often said, no one had better musical discernment in our band than she."

 
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Old 09-12-2017, 01:48 PM   #15
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Organic Blue Cornflakes with Billy. #rockstarbreakfast #goodmorning #dadlife #ogilala @williampcorgan #billy #WPC

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Old 09-12-2017, 02:00 PM   #16
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he looks like he wants to blow his brains out quite frankly

 
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Old 09-12-2017, 02:02 PM   #17
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she's like three layer of douche

1. takes pic of normal food
2. describes said normal food
3. has to point out it's organic

billy is eating cereal, congratulations

 
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Old 09-12-2017, 02:17 PM   #18
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Old 09-12-2017, 03:06 PM   #19
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Quote:
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billy is eating cereal, congratulations
Lol but in all fairness without the caption it looks like he's spooning some nasty ass bargain bin chili-con-queso dip into that sad sad melon of his

 
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Old 09-12-2017, 03:08 PM   #20
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Fucken love bill's jammies, been waiting since it all goes wrong for another naughty shot of that bill in some bitchin night night duds

 
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Old 09-12-2017, 03:33 PM   #21
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Just food for thought:

When Siamese Dream and Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness came out, the Billy, D'arcy, James, and Jimmy lineup had been together for five and seven years respectively. Since then, the band has not had one lineup that lasted longer than three years. Additionally, Oceania - the Smashing Pumpkins release with the strongest reviews since 2000 (arguably 1995) - was made with the lineup that made it the longest after the "classic lineup."

Point is, maybe Billy's groove comes from actually playing with the people for more than it takes for him to get bored of them. GASP


 
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Old 09-12-2017, 07:23 PM   #22
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Am I the only one brave or racist enough to note the fact that bElli looks oriental in that pic.

 
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Old 09-12-2017, 07:24 PM   #23
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Also if he is a rockstar then I am Pallas Athena born full fledged with armor and shit from the brow of Olympian Zeus.

 
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