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Old 08-25-2017, 10:15 PM   #181
pavementtune
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Originally Posted by amoergosum View Post

congrats, this demand is indeed overwhelming. Bolly sold out three gigs and they had to add a fourth!
the venue holds 150 people.

 
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Old 08-25-2017, 10:16 PM   #182
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Originally Posted by Jelly Blossom View Post
If anything, a good singer live is gonna sound even better in the studio due to having a controlled environment and the ability to edit/comp vocal performances.

The 'defense' here by reprise85 (and others have tried to give) that Billy sounds bad in the studio but good live is probably the most backasswards argument ever.
well one big difference is that live his voice reverberates and has "space" to it. In the studio he produces himself so it sounds like he's singing in a closest with pillows on the walls

 
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Old 08-25-2017, 10:20 PM   #183
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Originally Posted by pavementtune View Post
congrats, this demand is indeed overwhelming. Bolly sold out three gigs and they had to add a fourth!
the venue holds 150 people.
Wow... he was able to pull 600 ppl from the country's second largest market...

I mean, getting 600 ppl combined to consecutive shows is impressive if you're an amateur, but not so much for a guy who's received as much exposure and publicity as Billy.

 
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Old 08-25-2017, 10:23 PM   #184
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well one big difference is that live his voice reverberates and has "space" to it. In the studio he produces himself so it sounds like he's singing in a closest with pillows on the walls
Rick Ruben produced this Ogilala, not Billy.

There's also a thing called echo and reverb that can be added to recordings now. If Billy has indeed been singing in a closest with pillows on the walls subtle effects can be added to color his vocal performances.

 
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Old 08-25-2017, 11:22 PM   #185
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SHIT JELLIES GETTIN "THERES ALSO A THING NOW" SALTY WATCH OUT

 
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Old 08-25-2017, 11:26 PM   #186
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Originally Posted by Jelly Blossom View Post
Rick Ruben produced this Ogilala, not Billy.

There's also a thing called echo and reverb that can be added to recordings now. If Billy has indeed been singing in a closest with pillows on the walls subtle effects can be added to color his vocal performances.
yeah but he didn't add them, showing that he likes how it sounds without it

 
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Old 08-25-2017, 11:26 PM   #187
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Dudes did u know this guy jellie knows fuckton of about music?? Subtle effects even

 
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Old 08-26-2017, 01:24 AM   #188
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Gonna be the milquetoast moderate and suggest it's a mix of a few factors. When I saw him on the Plainsong tour in Toronto he had moments where the old voice crept through here and there, and I remember being kind of pleasantly surprised but there were dropped consonants throughout the night. He can't and won't ever sing the way he used to again.

This is also the guy who's got a history of doing multiple vocal takes, taking preferred snippets of syllables and blending them together to create the sound he wants. I don't doubt that what we hear on LPs is what he wants us to hear.

He could sound a bit closer to what we'd define as the classic voice. But he won't, partly because that's not what he wants to sound like and partially because he can't pull it off anymore.

 
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Old 08-26-2017, 04:36 AM   #189
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This is also the guy who's got a history of doing multiple vocal takes, taking preferred snippets of syllables and blending them together to create the sound he wants. I don't doubt that what we hear on LPs is what he wants us to hear.
Either that or he realizes that you can only polish a turd so much before you realize it's a turd.

 
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Old 08-26-2017, 05:39 AM   #190
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Originally Posted by Shadaloo View Post
When I saw him on the Plainsong tour in Toronto he had moments where the old voice crept through here and there, and I remember being kind of pleasantly surprised but there were dropped consonants throughout the night. He can't and won't ever sing the way he used to again.


This vocal performance was pretty nice:

[best moment: 0:36]






Flashback:



Last edited by amoergosum : 08-26-2017 at 05:47 AM.

 
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Old 08-26-2017, 06:38 AM   #191
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stop whining you fucks

 
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Old 08-26-2017, 10:11 AM   #192
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I think it's a good point made about him now being more confident ibis vocal skills as opposed to the past when he did a lot more vocal comping and double tracking because he thought his vocals sucked back in the old days. The irony is all that work he used to do on his vocals is what made us love his voice and now that he's had vocal lessons and thinks he knows how to sing properly he does a lot more whole takes of vocals and then he pushes them to the front of the mix without any effects and it just sounds like shit. He needs to get back with butch vig and make Siamese Dream 2 or else he can just fuck off in my opinion.

 
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Old 08-26-2017, 10:27 AM   #193
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I think James Iha should produce the next album

 
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Old 08-26-2017, 10:48 AM   #194
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Originally Posted by pinballzero View Post
LMAO
What's funny is, if you go back and read Corgan's Confessions, he talks about Rubin getting bored with the band doing endless take of "Let Me Give the World to You" and falling asleep on the sofa.

 
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Old 08-26-2017, 06:16 PM   #195
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Let's dissect Billy's vocals on Pennies. Well, just the last line.

"Pennies for sale"

The "Pen-" is forced out of him, showcasing true emotion. Billy then uses his vibrato on "sale", but his voice is coming out harder and it's not so noticeable (plus the vocals are a lot lower in the mix).

This line is repeated and please note the lack of "lover". Billy will never sing like this again.

 
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Old 08-26-2017, 07:58 PM   #196
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Originally Posted by Jelly Blossom View Post
The 'defense' here by reprise85 (and others have tried to give) that Billy sounds bad in the studio but good live is probably the most backasswards argument ever.
BINGO. When you hear shit live it's extremely loud and it's mixed in with the other sound sensations... Even the most washed-up singers could make for an enjoyable time in a live setting... Where the real talent shows up is on a recording and Billy just croaks away with the most grating vibrato ridden whines these days.


With that said..... I also hated the first lead single off the last album. I couldn't stand Worlds On Fire but actually came to like quite a few songs off of 'Monuments' (despite the poor vocal showing)... So I'm trying to stay positive... But I'm really not expecting much.

Last edited by fuzzyroes : 08-26-2017 at 08:12 PM.

 
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Old 08-26-2017, 08:06 PM   #197
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yeah but he didn't add them, showing that he likes how it sounds without it
Good grief Reprise... He doesn't "like" how it sounds.... It's simply the best that he can fucking offer at his age.... Of course Billy Corgan is gonna whine and moan in the media about how he's "trying to sound like that" and that he thinks "it sounds great"...

Billy's never gonna come forward rationally to simply admit that he's struggling vocally due to his old age... Haven't you ever paid attention to Billy Corgan?

 
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Old 08-27-2017, 12:04 AM   #198
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He didn't add effects to his voice that would make it sound better. So he was happy without them. I'm not saying he "thinks it sounds great" (although he might), just that he clearly prefers it to be dry like that because he clearly could have made it less dry but decided not to.

I don't know how much clearer I can explain myself

 
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Old 08-27-2017, 01:19 AM   #199
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Originally Posted by fuzzyroes View Post
Good grief Reprise... He doesn't "like" how it sounds.... It's simply the best that he can fucking offer at his age.... Of course Billy Corgan is gonna whine and moan in the media about how he's "trying to sound like that" and that he thinks "it sounds great"...
Billy's been trying to "make peace" with his voice since at least Adore.

Starting @ 5:18, these are Billy's words, not mine:

Quote:
Originally Posted by William Patrick Corgan
I think I'm trying to make peace with a lot of things, you know, one of which is my voice. I don't sing as well as I would like to...


The sad thing is, despite how bad Billy's voice sounded in the 90s it sounded golden then compared to how it sounds now. :/

 
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Old 08-27-2017, 07:40 AM   #200
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It didn't sound bad in the 90s though. Even though it wasn't technically proper, it conveyed tons of emotion, which is really the goal for an alt rock shoegaze band

it's the James Iha of voices

 
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Old 08-27-2017, 12:10 PM   #201
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It didn't sound bad in the 90s though. Even though it wasn't technically proper, it conveyed tons of emotion, which is really the goal for an alt rock shoegaze band

it's the James Iha of voices
The lack of quality of Billy's voice was sticking point in the 90s too. I remember knowing people from that era who felt and/or agreed that the Pumpkins would've been a stronger act if the group had a front man who could sing and Billy focused on just playing guitar/writing music (a la Pete Townshend or Tom Scholz).

Unfortunately his voice has only gotten worse over the years. I'm sure it's from a factor of age, sheer laziness, overconfidence and ego/surrounding himself with yes-men.

Billy and Dave Mustaine are really examples of how a guy doesn't need to be even a decent singer to front an amazingly successful rock band. It's really amazing how much success they've had as singers despite each lacking the ability to sing well.

 
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Old 08-27-2017, 06:20 PM   #202
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Corgan's vocals were one of the best parts of the band. His voice was unique and when recorded well it was very powerful and moving. He can't sit there and belt it like Sinatra or someone but he had his own thing going. Why he now insists that he is Sinatra and pushes the dry vocals way up front is beyond me.

 
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Old 08-28-2017, 03:42 PM   #203
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Originally Posted by Jelly Blossom View Post
The lack of quality of Billy's voice was sticking point in the 90s too. I remember knowing people from that era who felt and/or agreed that the Pumpkins would've been a stronger act if the group had a front man who could sing and Billy focused on just playing guitar/writing music (a la Pete Townshend or Tom Scholz).
this is fucking stupid, tbh. Billy was the best vocalist for those songs and frankly the only one who should be singing them.

He had a mastery of "swapping roles" on stuff like Bullet or even Soma that few other big names from that period could have done. and even if they could have, they wouldn't have the personally-driven angst that drove those songs when Bill sang them anyway

these days though, i'd be more than happy to hear him write for another (preferrably female) singer. A full album of like, Natalie Imbruglia singing Corgan songs as some 20-years-later follow-up to Identify or something would probably be pretty sweet

 
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Old 08-28-2017, 05:17 PM   #204
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To sort out his vocal performances Billy needs a producer who cares enough to be in tune with everything that made the 90s performances great.

Adore is a pretty stunningly performed record, huge conviction, accurate but emotive diction and use of the palette. But you listen to those performances and often he's barely rising above a whisper, there are lots of breaks, particularly in the lower register and lots of rough pronunciations but net effect is compelling. Which really was always his trick, heaps of air or lots of snarl and very little in-between.

Unfortunately, Rubin doesn't appear interesting in pushing Billy on this and Billy is clearly not interesting on pushing himself on it.

Age has nothing to do with it. He hasn't lost his voice. He isn't singing challenging parts (at least not on this new track) he's just not going for that tone. It's in there if he wants to access it but that's 99% of the trick.

 
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Old 08-28-2017, 05:49 PM   #205
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Unfortunately, Rubin doesn't appear interesting in pushing Billy on this and Billy is clearly not interesting on pushing himself on it.


 
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Old 08-28-2017, 07:19 PM   #206
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I've read somewhere the Rubin wanted Billy to kind of sit down, play and sing his new songs with a "live" approach. I can't see how that could be a bad thing having in mind that almost every album Billy's recorded since Machina were destroyed by overproduction.

 
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Old 08-28-2017, 09:02 PM   #207
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this is fucking stupid, tbh. Billy was the best vocalist for those songs and frankly the only one who should be singing them.
A powerful, inflammatory statement followed by an interesting theory that ultimately holds no water.

Was Pete Townshend 'fucking stupid', as you put it, to have Roger Daltry sing a vast majority of his songs? Or Tom Scholtz? Was he 'fucking stupid' for having Brad Delp sing his songs?

I'm sure there are people out there who might thing they were 'fucking stupid' for doing so, but I'm also sure that there are a vast majority of people who feel that Townshend and Scholtz made the right choices.

Just think how amazing "Bullet with Butterfly Wings", "Muzzle" or "The Everlasting Gaze" would have sounded with a good vocalist... instead, we got Billy, with his whiny, weak and nasally voice and for some strange reason people want to celebrate that.

 
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Old 08-28-2017, 09:58 PM   #208
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Billy was a good vocalist for those songs though. Music is not about technical ability so much as conveying emotion, and Billy did that incredibly

 
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Old 08-28-2017, 10:24 PM   #209
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Just think how amazing "Bullet with Butterfly Wings", "Muzzle" or "The Everlasting Gaze" would have sounded with a good vocalist... instead, we got Billy, with his whiny, weak and nasally voice and for some strange reason people want to celebrate that.
Bruh....

 
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Old 08-28-2017, 10:34 PM   #210
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Billy was a good vocalist for those songs though.
Dude, in what fucking universe?

 
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