Netphoria Message Board


Go Back   Netphoria Message Board > Archives > General Chat Archive
Register Netphoria's Amazon.com Link Members List Mark Forums Read

 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-03-2002, 07:03 PM   #1
Black jellie bean
 
Posts: n/a
Thumbs down Racism, Probably a repeat

I hate when people play it like a trump card,
while in tight jams,
also I hate how because they're the minority, they get to be racist, giving them more initial rights than everyone else
example?
puff daddy or p diddy (or what ever the fuck he is) does a concert to support the african americans who died on 9-11,
If someone tried to pull a concert for the white people who died the fucking race flag would be up and that would be the end of it.
we're all fucking human
I don't see the point of this shit
*I know that I'm half being hipicritical

------------------
See through yourself
http://205.251.253.175:666/GuitarAge/images/dop.jpg

 
Old 02-03-2002, 07:07 PM   #2
nevermind
 
Posts: n/a
Post

http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/rolleyes.gif

yea blacks are idiots i know. shut up already. christ.

 
Old 02-03-2002, 08:44 PM   #3
theonemofo
 
Posts: n/a
Red face

if you take the definition of racism to be the practice of systematically disadvantaging people based on their race, then a minority cannot be racist. or conversely, you could state it as a practice that systematically benefits people of the majority. whether you know it or not, white people are privy to benefits that they don't even perceive as benefits.

when you say the word "person" to an american, the standard is that that person is a white, anglo-saxon protestant.

in a study, white and black people were evaluated (by whites) for working potential based on appearance alone. when given the option of bad or good, the two races were evaluated roughly the same.

then, the evaluation was repeated with the inclusion of the choice of "okay". black people were systematically ranked lower than whites.

this kind of stuff is ingrained in us. it's not something we do out of malice. it's just what we've been taught.

and as white people, we might take offense to the fact that p diddy did a concert in tribute to the blacks who died on september eleventh. it seems as if they're disenfranchising us, lessening our importance.

but take a look at our television shows, our colleges, our suburbias. now who's doing the disenfranchising?

 
Old 02-03-2002, 09:12 PM   #4
carter
 
Posts: n/a
Post

Why have a problem with Puffy donating money to the blacks that died in September? It is his money. I'm sure everyone at the concert knew who the money was going to and supported the cause.

Quote:
Originally posted by theonemofo:
this kind of stuff is ingrained in us. it's not something we do out of malice. it's just what we've been taught.?
I disagree. While stereotypes and prejudices are behaviors learned to lower transaction cost, racism, as you defined, is attributable to inherent human nature.
Quote:
but take a look at our television shows, our colleges, our suburbias. now who's doing the disenfranchising?
I do not understand this quote. Do you mean television, colleges, and suburbia are not representing ethnic culture? Non-whites are grossly over-represented in entertainment and when all other variables are held constant, they are over-represented in American colleges. Now if you mean that ethnic groups are being "disenfranchised" by majority groups borrowing aspects of their culture for entertainment purposes, then I fully agree.

Chris Carter


 
Old 02-03-2002, 09:26 PM   #5
shutterbugg
 
Posts: n/a
Question

ethnocentrism?

 
Old 02-03-2002, 11:34 PM   #6
Mayfuck
 
Posts: n/a
Post

Quote:
Originally posted by Black jellie bean:
I don't see the point of this shit

Yeah, it's okay, most bigots don't.

[This message has been edited by Mayfuck (edited 02-03-2002).]

 
Old 02-03-2002, 11:35 PM   #7
bonsor
 
Posts: n/a
Post

Quote:
Originally posted by Mayfuck:
Yeah, it's okay, most bigots don't.
Elaborate, please.


 
Old 02-03-2002, 11:43 PM   #8
melancholia
 
Posts: n/a
Post

for the record, i am a liberal.

...and i believe that all races should be treated 100% equally... and they're not...

i live in NY, one of the most diverse places in the world, one of the places in the world where you can make it, no matter who you are, as long as you work hard...

but you can not walk around anywhere in this city without hearing some minority screaming about his or her opression... maybe i'm blind, but i don't see any opression.

i went to public school, i worked hard, my (black) friend is in Yale right now, I'm not. He worked harder. THAT- is equality.

Which is why I don't believe we need affirmative action anymore, we have virtually achieved pure equality, but finding racial categories to put people into, just divides the lines.

My friends father (a white NYFD) died in the trade center... I was down there digging for people I knew... why do minorites have their own fund? Did they not all bleed and die together that day? Every family deserves retrobution, none more than another. Everyone has suffered. Regardless of color. It *is* racist on the part of some minority figures to isolate "their" people...

that's one of the biggest problems in america... no one sees us as actually being one, united people... which is what this country is founded on... one united people. but no, we see ourselves as colors, and nationalities...we set ourselves against one another because we're too afraid to lose face and get the fuck along.

excuse the rant... saw my history prof. today.

 
Old 02-03-2002, 11:47 PM   #9
nevermind
 
Posts: n/a
Thumbs down

Quote:
Originally posted by melancholia:
for the record, i am a liberal.

...and i believe that all races should be treated 100% equally... and they're not...

i live in NY, one of the most diverse places in the world, one of the places in the world where you can make it, no matter who you are, as long as you work hard...

but you can not walk around anywhere in this city without hearing some minority screaming about his or her opression... maybe i'm blind, but i don't see any opression.

i went to public school, i worked hard, my (black) friend is in Yale right now, I'm not. He worked harder. THAT- is equality.

Which is why I don't believe we need affirmative action anymore, we have virtually achieved pure equality, but finding racial categories to put people into, just divides the lines.

My friends father (a white NYFD) died in the trade center... I was down there digging for people I knew... why do minorites have their own fund? Did they not all bleed and die together that day? Every family deserves retrobution, none more than another. Everyone has suffered. Regardless of color. It *is* racist on the part of some minority figures to isolate "their" people...

that's one of the biggest problems in america... no one sees us as actually being one, united people... which is what this country is founded on... one united people. but no, we see ourselves as colors, and nationalities...we set ourselves against one another because we're too afraid to lose face and get the fuck along.

excuse the rant... saw my history prof. today.

and you asked ME when i would shut up. http://www.netphoria.org/wwwboard/rolleyes.gif lmfao.
what an idiot, wow.

 
Old 02-03-2002, 11:47 PM   #10
Mayfuck
 
Posts: n/a
Post

Quote:
Originally posted by melancholia:
Regardless of color. It *is* racist on the part of some minority figures to isolate "their" people...
It's called cultural identity, nitwit. And it should be embraced.

Quote:
Originally posted by ******:
Elaborate, please.

To you of all people? Maybe another time, David Duke.

 
Old 02-03-2002, 11:58 PM   #11
melancholia
 
Posts: n/a
Post

cultural identity is fine... removing yourself from the rest of society...isn't.

 
Old 02-04-2002, 12:00 AM   #12
bonsor
 
Posts: n/a
Post

Quote:
Originally posted by melancholia:
that's one of the biggest problems in america... no one sees us as actually being one, united people... which is what this country is founded on... one united people. but no, we see ourselves as colors, and nationalities...we set ourselves against one another because we're too afraid to lose face and get the fuck along.
I disagree with everything but this. Opression does exist in America. How much actually exists cannot be accurately determined due to the number of people who milk the fact that they're a minority for all it's worth, but I'm a firm believer that it still exists.

I live in a part of the nation where I come across hardcore racists on a weekly basis. And I don't think it's any coincidence that a lot of people in higher power are white males. Theoretically, if all races were equal and treated equally, the percentage of minorities in each social class should be perfectly proportional the total population. Is that so? Hardly. Racial oppression is a reality, and everything you said (except the paragraph I quoted, which I'll get to in a second) reeks of complete ignorance. A true liberal would at least recognize the fact that people are being oppressed.

Being an American isn't necessarily about being colorblind. That would be boring. If everyone made our racial differences taboo, we would grow farther apart. People need to learn to embrace the differences between our races. Embrace is too strong. Recognize and respect. Recognition and respect of other people's cultures.

Although, that could very quickly turn into intolerance, because once you make the differences more apparent, people shy away from them, because people are afraid of what is different.

I suggest you all read Native Son by Richard Wright. It tackles the situation perfectly. It's a nice read, too.

 
Old 02-04-2002, 12:00 AM   #13
Mayfuck
 
Posts: n/a
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally posted by melancholia:
cultural identity is fine... removing yourself from the rest of society...isn't.
In other words, 'cultural identiy is fine, not allowing yourself to be assimilated into white institutions isn't.'

 
Old 02-04-2002, 12:02 AM   #14
melancholia
 
Posts: n/a
Post

I will read that book as soon as I get around to it.

I'm sure there is racism in this country, but I also think that very few people (minorites included) are doing much to stop it.

I really am colorblind...I don't *have* a people, other than other Americans... which is why all of the division pisses me off.

 
Old 02-04-2002, 12:03 AM   #15
melancholia
 
Posts: n/a
Post

what is a "white institution"?


 
Old 02-04-2002, 12:10 AM   #16
Mayfuck
 
Posts: n/a
Post

Quote:
Originally posted by melancholia:
what is a "white institution"?

Read onemofos post.

 
Old 02-04-2002, 12:16 AM   #17
melancholia
 
Posts: n/a
Post

i still don't get it...there is nothing in there about being white
his point is that we're all human, and nothing is ever going to be accomplished in terms of equality unless we begin to see it that way...in ALL aspects.

and I agree.

 
Old 02-04-2002, 12:33 AM   #18
Smack Me In My Mouth
 
Posts: n/a
Post

I get tired of arguing the same points to people again and again, but it would be a disservice to stop.

I live in New Hampshire. My hometown, Laconia, is like the set of a sitcom: middle-class white guys, with the occasional token "ethnic" now and then. The rhetoric of people like Black Jellie Bean and Melancholia sounds eerily like the bullshit the locals spout when confronted with the same sort of situation--"Who cares? We're all Americans."

The problem is, when someone says "American" they think of a white person wearing a tie and carrying a breifcase to his corporate job. If you try to substitute a black person, or an Asian person, or a hispanic person into the vision, they're invariable just a white guy with different-colored skin. The only reason a lot of Americans know anything about other cultures is because our own pop-culture has assimilated it, making it briefly fashionable for suburban adolescents to consume until their appetite for the product has been sated.

I don't know nearly as much about the world as I'd like to, and if someone wants me to learn about it I'm not going to stop them. Whether this means having a month devoted to black history, or the guy who runs the local Thai market (if there was one around here--there's not) wearing his culutral garb, or whatever, I think that's fine. No one's making you learn anything. You can ignore minorities if you want; your established social order would probably work better without them anyway.

I can see I'm losing focus here, so I'll try to draw out my main point: I don't think there should be one American people. America is the melting pot because there are people here from all walks of life and parts of the world, and it would be a shame and a mistake if we forgot and cast off our origins.

White people already control our society; we're bombarded by "white propoganda" every day, as Theonemofo and Mayfuck pointed out, but white people still get uncomfortable when minorities exert and support their cultures. To me, that's still racism--you might not be lynching or persecuting anyone, but just because the symptoms are more subtle doesn't mean the disease has vanished.

 
Old 02-04-2002, 12:38 AM   #19
melancholia
 
Posts: n/a
Post

when i think about an "American" the first thing that comes to mind isn't a white guy... i think about a group of people... all different. and that's not propaganda.

and you're reading into what i said, i have no problem with culture, i have no problem with people supporting their culture... i play harp and have red hair... i am showing my culture right there...

but, what i do object to, is how it's OK for minorities to display their "culture" but if a white person does it...they're automatically a member of the KKK.


 
Old 02-04-2002, 12:40 AM   #20
nevermind
 
Posts: n/a
Post

Quote:
Originally posted by melancholia:
when i think about an "American" the first thing that comes to mind isn't a white guy... i think about a group of people... all different. and that's not propaganda.

and you're reading into what i said, i have no problem with culture, i have no problem with people supporting their culture... i play harp and have red hair... i am showing my culture right there...

but, what i do object to, is how it's OK for minorities to display their "culture" but if a white person does it...they're automatically a member of the KKK.

bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch.

stupid whore, geeze.


 
Old 02-04-2002, 12:46 AM   #21
Smack Me In My Mouth
 
Posts: n/a
Post

Quote:
Originally posted by melancholia:
when i think about an "American" the first thing that comes to mind isn't a white guy... i think about a group of people... all different. and that's not propaganda.
Well, that's a good first step, I suppose.

Quote:
but, what i do object to, is how it's OK for minorities to display their "culture" but if a white person does it...they're automatically a member of the KKK.
No, you're still wrong. Have you been out lately? All those people wearing Gap pants and Abercrombie shirts are displaying white culture. People who listen to any number of pop musicians are displaying their culture. Corporate America never stops shoving white culture up our asses.

Don't try to tell me you can't display white culture--it's almost impossible to avoid.

 
Old 02-04-2002, 12:50 AM   #22
melancholia
 
Posts: n/a
Post

Um... so...now stores are segregated?

So...when I feel like acting "white" I have to go to the gap...right? and listen to some pop music...

fuck the fact that my paternal grandfathers line is Spanish... I guess I'm too white for that.

I guess I can't listen to bob marley anymore...he's too "black culture" for me...

jesus...

 
Old 02-04-2002, 01:01 AM   #23
Smack Me In My Mouth
 
Posts: n/a
Post

Quote:
Originally posted by melancholia:
Um... so...now stores are segregated?

So...when I feel like acting "white" I have to go to the gap...right? and listen to some pop music...

fuck the fact that my paternal grandfathers line is Spanish... I guess I'm too white for that.

I guess I can't listen to bob marley anymore...he's too "black culture" for me...

jesus...
Jesus is right--you seem pretty fucking dense.

Yes, I obviously mean that everyone should give up what they like and focus on things that they're supposed to like, based on their ethnic origin. That's exactly what I'm trying to say! I'm glad my message wasn't too clouded for you to pick up, you arrogant fuck.

No, stores aren't segregated. In fact, minorities are encouraged to shop there--that way, they'll appear more white. If a black man goes into a job interview dressed as some crazy-ass tribal African, even if his dress is culturally appropriate and of very high quality, no one's going to take him seriously. But if he's dressed "correctly", in a nice Gucci suit perhaps, his chances are significantly higher for him to get the job.

I can see I'm not going to win any sort of arguement with you, or even make a dent, so I'll conclude now:

There is no racism in the United States of America. Minorities should learn their place and accept that fact.

 
Old 02-04-2002, 01:03 AM   #24
Mayfuck
 
Posts: n/a
Post

Quote:
Originally posted by melancholia:
but, what i do object to, is how it's OK for minorities to display their "culture" but if a white person does it...they're automatically a member of the KKK.

And this is where you stumble. First off, why did you put culture in quotation marks? Are you somehow trying to invalidate it? And second...if a white person does it...they're automatically a member of the KKK Here is my problem with this thread. You're being too technical about this racial issue. This country has had too far a complex history regarding racial matters to simply see things in black and white (no pun intended!!1) which is what you're doing with your we're-all-Americans rhetoric. You complained that it's not okay for white people to display their culture, when actually it is okay as long as it's done under an ethnic guise i.e. Russian pride, Scottish pride. Go wear a kilt to school. Or whatever it is that your ethnic predecessors do.

Second of all, you also disapproved of Black History Month and funds for minorities. I bet you also disapprove of BET. Once again the concept of minority is lost on you. In a country where the white male dominates and acting white is the norm (C'mon, you see it in sitcoms, business, everywhere. Do you see the president speaking ebonics in a wop accent?) So it's normal for minorities to feel isolated and "different" than the cultural norm. This is why we have things like Black History Month and Cesar Chavez Day. Furthermore they are accepted on an official and national basis to ease that cultural isolation. Plus, throw in about 200 years of oppression and it also serves as a form of reperation. But most of all it's recognition, because minorities aren't found easily in mainstream American culture.

 
Old 02-04-2002, 01:07 AM   #25
Etienne
 
Posts: n/a
Post

ome
Quote:
Originally posted by Black jellie bean:
I hate when people play it like a trump card,
while in tight jams,
also I hate how because they're the minority, they get to be racist, giving them more initial rights than everyone else
example?
puff daddy or p diddy (or what ever the fuck he is) does a concert to support the african americans who died on 9-11,
If someone tried to pull a concert for the white people who died the fucking race flag would be up and that would be the end of it.
we're all fucking human
I don't see the point of this shit
*I know that I'm half being hipicritical


by saying this your just propagating racism evn more, just by saying that thing about having a concert for the whites who died in 911 is stupid, for on whites arent a minority, for another thing, rasicm is like a bad haircut, if you ignore it it will go away.


------------------
i'm trying not to move
it's just your ghost passing through

 
Old 02-04-2002, 01:08 AM   #26
Smack Me In My Mouth
 
Posts: n/a
Post

Thank you, Mayfuck--he touched on the subjects that I didn't make clear in my own responses.

It's too bad we don't really like each other. We'd probably get along pretty well.

 
Old 02-04-2002, 01:10 AM   #27
Mayfuck
 
Posts: n/a
Post

I like you, silly

 
Old 02-04-2002, 01:12 AM   #28
Smack Me In My Mouth
 
Posts: n/a
Post

I don't dislike you.

How touching. This whole thread is like an episode of Family Matters.

 
Old 02-04-2002, 01:12 AM   #29
Black jellie bean
 
Posts: n/a
Post

Quote:
Originally posted by Mayfuck:
Yeah, it's okay, most bigots don't.
I think this is one of the things we don't agree on,
A: People of a different Race or religion are not better than any other, therefore why segregate yourself?Black, mexican, german whatever, being proud to be different is one thing, rasing money for Black people is another.*specifically in this example* when People from EVERY race Die pretty much equally or whatever, it is the Hight of bigotry
B:I'm not racist or a bigot
I hate everyone equally
C:What I mean is by "I don't understand this shit" is that well all have different roots, different lives, different problems, different skin colors, different taste,ect. I'm just wondering when people are going to understand the ways we're the same instead of the difference, it would make things alot easier.


regarding that fucking concert,
I still think it is bullshit,
the point is that PEOPLE died
not only Black people



------------------
See through yourself
http://205.251.253.175:666/GuitarAge/images/dop.jpg

 
Old 02-04-2002, 01:16 AM   #30
Black jellie bean
 
Posts: n/a
Post

in regards to me waving my culture/displying it
thats fine?
i don't go around saying i'm fucking white and proud
I could care less if I were African or somthingstill doesn't give me the right to segregate myself from the rest of humanity

does anyone understand/agree with what i'm trying to say here
god i wish i were a better writer

 
 


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is On
Google


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:26 AM.




Smashing Pumpkins, Alternative Music
& General Discussion Message Board and Forums
www.netphoria.org - Copyright © 1998-2022