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Old 05-26-2020, 02:48 PM   #31
MyOneAndOnly
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Who could have guessed that our version of Hitler would turn out to be so eloquent

 
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Old 05-27-2020, 12:17 PM   #32
MplsTaper
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When you feel the need to quote the full article.

Quote:
The human cost of virus misinformation

A BBC team tracking coronavirus misinformation has found links to assaults, arsons and deaths. And experts say the potential for indirect harm caused by rumours, conspiracy theories and bad health information could be much bigger.

"We thought the government was using it to distract us," says Brian Lee Hitchens, "or it was to do with 5G. So we didn't follow the rules or seek help sooner."

Brian, 46, is talking by phone from his hospital bed in Florida. His wife is critically ill - sedated, on a ventilator in an adjacent ward.

"The battle that they've been having is with her lungs," he says, voice wobbling. "They're inflamed. Her body just is not responding."

After reading online conspiracy theories, they thought the disease was a hoax - or, at the very least, no worse than flu. But then in early May, the couple caught Covid-19.

"And now I realise that coronavirus is definitely not fake," he says, running out of breath. "It's out there and it's spreading."

Dangerous misinformation

A BBC team has been tracking the human toll of coronavirus misinformation. We've investigated dozens of cases - some previously unreported - speaking to the people affected and medical authorities in an attempt to verify the stories.

The effects have spread all around the world.

Online rumours led to mob attacks in India and mass poisonings in Iran. Telecommunications engineers have been threatened and attacked and phone masts have been set alight in the UK and other countries - all because of conspiracy theories.

And in Arizona, a couple mistakenly thought a bottle of fish tank cleaner contained a preventative medicine.

Poisoned by cleaning products

It was late March when Wanda and Gary Lenius started to hear about hydroxychloroquine.

The couple noticed a similar-sounding ingredient on the label of an old bottle that was lying around their house in Phoenix.

Hydroxychloroquine may have potential to fight the virus - but as research continues, it remains unproven. On Monday, the World Health Organisation halted its use in trials after a recent study suggested it could actually increase the risk of patients dying from Covid-19.

Speculation about its effectiveness started circulating online in China in late January. Media organisations, including Chinese state outlets, tweeted out old studies where it was tested as an anti-viral medicine.

Then a French doctor claimed encouraging results. Although doubt was later cast on that study, interest in hydroxychloroquine surged. It was mentioned, with various degrees of scepticism, by a variety of media outlets and influential people including Tesla chief executive Elon Musk and Brazilian President Jair Bolsonaro.

It also found its way into White House press briefings - and President Trump's Twitter feed.

Donald J. Trump

@realDonaldTrump
HYDROXYCHLOROQUINE & AZITHROMYCIN, taken together, have a real chance to be one of the biggest game changers in the history of medicine. The FDA has moved mountains - Thank You! Hopefully they will BOTH (H works better with A, International Journal of Antimicrobial Agents).....

384K
9:13 AM - Mar 21, 2020

"What do you have to lose?" he said on 3 April. "Take it." In mid-May, he went further - saying that he'd been following his own advice. Each comment resulted in big spikes in social media chatter about the drug, according to data from online monitoring tool CrowdTangle.

Overdoses of the drug are rare, but the anxiety produced by the pandemic has driven people to extreme measures.

In Nigeria, hospital admissions from hydroxychloroquine poisoning provoked Lagos state health officials to warn people against using the drug.

And in early March, a 43-year-old Vietnamese man was admitted to a poison control clinic in Hanoi after taking a large dose of chloroquine. He was red, trembling and unable to see straight. The clinic's director, Dr Nguyen Trung Nguyen, said the man was lucky he received treatment quickly - or else he might have died.

Gary Lenius was not so fortunate. The cleaner he and Wanda gulped down contained a different chemical, and was poisonous.

Within minutes, both started feeling dizzy and hot. They vomited and struggled to breathe. Gary died, and Wanda was hospitalised.

Wanda later explained why the couple drank the concoction.

"Trump kept saying it was pretty much a cure," she said.

Alcohol poisoning

In Iran, authorities say hundreds have died from alcohol poisoning after viral rumours about its curative effects.

The total was put at 796 by the end of April by Kambiz Soltaninejad, an official from Iran's Legal Medicine Organisation, who said it was the result of "fake news on social media."

The truth behind the number is murky in a country where alcohol is banned in Iran and bootleg moonshine is routinely contaminated.

However in this case, BBC journalists did see rumours of the supposed "cure" spreading on the messaging app Telegram before the official announcement.

Shayan Sardarizadeh of BBC Monitoring's disinformation team notes that the announcement was potentially embarrassing to the Iranian authorities and, if anything, the number could be an underestimate.

In one case we verified, a 5-year-old boy went blind after his parents plied him with illegal booze in an attempt to fight the disease.

"We know that bad information can ruin lives," says Clare Milne, deputy editor of UK fact-checking organisation Full Fact. "There's such great potential for harm."

'My friend ate soap'

President Trump has speculated on a number of other cures beside hydroxychloroquine. In late April, he opined that ultraviolet rays could neutralise the virus.

"And then I see the disinfectant where it knocks it out in a minute. One minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning?"

Trump later said his comments were sarcastic. But some Americans didn't see it that way, and poison control hotlines received calls asking about the advice. Officials at one in Kansas said they heard from someone who said his friend swallowed disinfectant soap after the president's briefing.

Dr Duncan Maru, a doctor at Elmhurst Hospital in New York, says his colleagues have treated patients who have become acutely ill after ingesting disinfectant.

"These ingestions also can have long-term consequences, like cancers and gastrointestinal bleeding," he says.

Arsons, assaults and conspiracies

Social networks have also been fertile ground for conspiracy theories. One particular coronavirus-related one - there are many circulating online - has resulted in arsons and assaults.

Across the UK, more than 70 phone masts have been vandalised because of false rumours that 5G mobile phone technology is somehow to blame for the virus.

In April, Dylan Farrell, an engineer for Openreach, was driving his van in Thurmaston near Leicester. It had been a long day and he was thinking about what he might have for tea as he pulled up to a roundabout. That's when he started to hear shouting.

At first, he thought it was directed at someone else. But when he heard "5G!" being screamed through his passenger side window, he realised the shouting was meant for him.

"You've got no morals!" a man shouted. "5G is killing us all!"

"I have no doubt he would have tried to get inside and physically attack me had I not locked the doors straight away," Dylan says. "It was so frightening."

He drove away quickly. There have been no arrests in connection with the incident.

"We've seen a lot of conspiracies which have been online for a long time now about 5G," says Claire Milne of Full Fact. "Those have evolved to be connected to the new coronavirus."

Racial tensions and violent attacks

In March, WHO Director General Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus warned that the pandemic would lead to a flare up of a "dangerous enemy".

World Health Organization (WHO)

@WHO
When talking about #COVID19, certain words & language may have a negative meaning for people and fuel stigmatizing attitudes
14.3K
4:50 PM - Mar 2, 2020

He was referring to racism against people from Asia and China, but the virus has exacerbated tensions in several countries.

In April, three Muslim men were violently attacked in separate incidents in Delhi. They were beaten up after rumours circulated that Muslims were spreading the virus.

In Sisai, a small village in eastern India, rival gangs clashed. It came after an attack on a Muslim boy, again linked to false rumours suggesting Muslims were spreading disease. One young man lost his life and another was seriously injured.

False reports have circulated within ethnic communities as well. In Bradford, England, rumours circulated that non-white patients were being left to die.

And in Indore, a city in west-central India, doctors on a mission to track down someone who might have been exposed to the virus were attacked with stones. Misleading WhatsApp videos claimed that healthy Muslims were being taken away by health care workers and injected with the virus.

Two doctors were left with serious injuries after the incident in early April.

Critically ill from conspiracies

Online disinformation can have direct consequences, and social media platforms such as Facebook said they'll remove coronavirus posts that pose an immediate threat.

But it can also have indirect or delayed effects.

"I hope she pulls through," says Brian Lee Hitchens, the patient in Florida who got sucked in by coronavirus conspiracy theories. "But if I do lose her, she'll be in a better place."

Brian and his wife didn't have one firm belief about the disease - instead they oscillated between thinking that the virus was a hoax, linked to 5G, or a real but mild ailment.

So they carried on as normal despite official warnings. Brian went to work as a taxi driver in his hometown of Jupiter. He went shopping and picked up his wife's medications. Despite his wife's sleep apnoea and asthma, he didn't bother with social distancing or wearing a mask.

Catching the virus brought Brian back to reality. He turned to social media, this time to warn people off of misinformation and conspiracy theories.

Brian Lee Hitchens
about 2 weeks ago
Many people still think that the Coronavirus is a fake crisis which at one time I did too and not that I thought it wasn't a real virus going around but at one time I felt that it was blown out of proportion and it wasn't that serious. We kept on watching the news and kept on hearing about the spreading of the Coronavirus and to be honest I didn't really think nothing of it I still thought it was being blown out of proportion until about 4 and 1/2 weeks ago when I started to feel sick and once I started to feel sick I stopped working and stayed home yes I came down with the Coronavirus and a couple days later after I started to not feel good my wife started to not feel good and we stayed at home quarantined and my wife did go to the hospital to get tested and they told her yeah you probably have the coronavirus so go home and quarantine yourself well a few days went by and we both started feeling worse and worse and worse to the point where we barely had any energy left to do anything and all we want to do is sleep. So three weeks ago Sunday we decided not to play around with this anymore and I had just enough energy to drive us to the hospital Palm Beach Gardens Medical Center and we both got confirmed that we had the Coronavirus. They admitted us right away and we both went to ICU. I started feeling better within a few days but my wife got worse to the point where they sedated her and put her on the ventilator...

'We lose so many lives because of misinformation'

Brian's may be an extreme case, but with the sheer amount of information circulating - the WHO has called it an "infodemic" - many other people have been misled by what they read online.

They're not killing themselves by taking fake cures. Instead, they're lowering their chances of survival by not thinking coronavirus is real or serious.

On an unusually cold Friday in May, two men in their forties arrived at an emergency hospital in the New York borough of Queens. They were roommates, working long shifts and sharing a single bed, and both were seriously ill.

Within hours, Dr Rajeev Fernando saw one die in front of his eyes. The other was put on a ventilator.

Dr Fernando asked the men why they hadn't come to hospital sooner. They explained to him that they read somewhere online that the virus wasn't very serious.

"They try alternative therapies," Dr Fernando says. "They think this is just like the flu."

The men were in at-risk groups - but Dr Fernando believes they would have fared better if they had ignored the misleading advice and sought help sooner.

Professor Martin Marshall, chair of the Royal College of General Practitioners, says he and his colleagues in the UK have seen patients taking tips from posts they see online - including holding their breath in an attempt to "diagnose" themselves or thinking that drinking hot drinks will fight off the virus. Some have cited President Trump's statements about disinfectant.

Dr Maru, the doctor at New York's Elmhurst Hospital, calls the numbers who have potentially delayed treatment "staggering."

He knows of neighbours who have caught the disease and died because they believed that social distancing is ineffective or that coronavirus is a hoax. And he says that he and his colleagues spend precious time trying to debunk misinformation when they could be treating patients.

But as he spoke on the phone, exhausted and preparing to return to Elmhurst for another shift, Dr Maru was also quick to shift the blame away from the patients themselves.

"Misinformation is a structural problem," he says. "Blaming somebody for ingesting bleach or for staying at home and dying is akin to blaming somebody who is walking down the street and gets hit by a drunk driver."

In response to the wave of misinformation, social media companies have drawn up new rules. In a statement, Facebook said: "We don't allow harmful misinformation and have removed hundreds of thousands of posts including false cures, claims that coronavirus doesn't exist, that it's caused by 5G or that social distancing is ineffective." The company also says it has put warning labels on 90 million pieces of content.

YouTube says it does not allow content promoting dangerous so-called cures and has a range of policies against Covid-19 misinformation, including disputing the existence of the disease or suggesting that it is caused by 5G.

What lies ahead

But as research continues into a coronavirus vaccine, many anti-vaccination and conspiracy-minded groups and accounts have seen their numbers swell. They pose a potential health threat - albeit not an immediate risk.

What some doctors we spoke to fear the most is that the development of a coronavirus vaccine - something that would be a human achievement for the ages - could be completely undermined by misinformation.

The future is scary, medical professionals say, because of what they're seeing right now.

"We lose so many lives. They come in very late," says Dr Fernando in New York. He's just finished a night shift, and as we talk on Skype, a protective mask dangles from his ears. "And we just watch them die in front of our eyes."

Brian, the coronavirus patient in Florida, has a message for the people who still believe in the conspiracy theories he endorsed just a few days ago.

"Don't be foolish like I was," he says, "and the same thing won't happen to you like it happened to me and my wife."
https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-52731624

 
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Old 05-27-2020, 01:31 PM   #33
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Dangerous Idiot Elected Second Time

 
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Old 05-27-2020, 03:36 PM   #34
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I'm just so tired of it all- the idiocy, the dread, the minutia. Everything sucks and will for quite a while.

 
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Old 05-28-2020, 12:32 PM   #35
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https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ity-inequality

Cornel West, the Harvard philosopher, activist and writer, argues that you have to dig deeper to find the source of such disproportionate fatalities. “The virus encounters deeply racist structures and institutions already in place, against the backdrop of wealth inequality, a militarized state and a commodified culture in which everybody and everything is for sale,” he said.

For West, the pandemic has revealed nothing less than the country’s demise. “America has become a failed social experiment, a decayed empire that is unable to meet the basic needs of its people.”

 
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Old 05-28-2020, 08:11 PM   #36
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I hope that the coming global dominance of China at least leads to better movies and music for our future generations.

Their equivalent to The X Factor and so on appear to have the contestants perform entire songs and not just slivers of them that sit neatly amongst self-promoting celebrity banter and a commercial advertising structure so that may actually bode well for us.

 
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Old 05-28-2020, 09:07 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FoolofaTook View Post
“America has become a failed social experiment, a decayed empire that is unable to meet the basic needs of its people.”
people have been saying versions of this for hundreds of years. in some ways it has been true, but to call the richest country in the history of the world "decayed" isn't really accurate.

 
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Old 05-28-2020, 09:17 PM   #38
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What other reasons might you give to counter this description beyond America's wealth by comparison to historically dominant economies and the fact that iterations of the phrase have been uttered previously?

I would have thought that one could use the term "decayed" to describe anything in decline.

 
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Old 05-28-2020, 09:27 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovary View Post
people have been saying versions of this for hundreds of years. in some ways it has been true, but to call the richest country in the history of the world "decayed" isn't really accurate.

This is not the richest country in the world. This country has a few of the richest people into the world. The "riches" don't trickle down. We don't even get healthcare or schools.

Fuck off

 
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Old 05-28-2020, 09:32 PM   #40
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I'd sooner invite some sort of clarification than a fucking of the off, but the below represents how that exchange reads to my eyes.

CLAIM: As a society, America is in decline and people are falling through the cracks.

COUNTERCLAIM: That's inaccurate because America still has the most money than anybody ever.

 
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Old 05-28-2020, 11:02 PM   #41
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sounds like we need to define some of these terms

 
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Old 05-28-2020, 11:29 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MyOneAndOnly View Post
AMERICA IS NOW GREAT

Fake tweet is fake.

 
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Old 05-28-2020, 11:36 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovary View Post
they also don't research what the whole ocean will look like in 5 years, but if i wanted an answer to that question i would trust a marine biologist over other voices.

either way the economy is fucked. as someone generally in favor of degrowth tho, hard to get too upset abt it. i have been thinking degrowth is inevitable, and since there is zero chance of policy makers moving that direction thoughtfully/deliberately, itll have to be a painful process.
I don't think growth in itself is the problem. Economic growth refers to the increase of value in an economy. You can increase value without necessarily increasing resource inputs or pollution. For example, new technologies or practices that increase efficiency.

It's the difference between intensive and extensive growth.

 
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Old 05-29-2020, 07:12 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard View Post
What other reasons might you give to counter this description beyond America's wealth by comparison to historically dominant economies and the fact that iterations of the phrase have been uttered previously?

I would have thought that one could use the term "decayed" to describe anything in decline.
I don't like the term decayed because it misstates the reality of America's injustices, history, and place in the world to support a broader "America is a terrible irredeemable racist shithole country" narrative that is popular on the left and, in my opinion, factually questionable and politically counterproductive. MyOneAndOnly participates in this same kind of rhetoric when she says "This is not the richest country in the world. This country has a few of the richest people into the world. The "riches" don't trickle down. We don't even get healthcare or schools." That just is not true. Poor people in America DO get healthcare and schools--they're unaffordable and sometimes shitty, but many poor people across the world literally DON'T have those things at all. For Corona America's poor people got a check for 1200; in India they are starving to death.

And also I do not think we are in a period of decline/decay. Obviously Trump is bad news but if you're talking about "national decline" you need to take a historical perspective. If you name various social problems in the US--racism, health-care, poverty, whatever--things on most those fronts are getting better, not worse. One exception is income inequality, but that has ebbed and flowed pretty regularly through American history and we're at a high ebb right now--the tide will turn again. I think that the left will win elections when it tells a story of ascendance and progress (Obama, Biden) rather than decline and decay (Sanders). I'm not trying to argue that healthcare and poverty and racism etc are not huge problems--just that they're not as big of problems as they used to be, largely due to moderate democratic policies.

What are your examples of arenas in which America is in "decline?" And it can't be things like climate change or pollution that are negatively effecting all countries.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Disco King View Post
I don't think growth in itself is the problem. Economic growth refers to the increase of value in an economy. You can increase value without necessarily increasing resource inputs or pollution. For example, new technologies or practices that increase efficiency.

It's the difference between intensive and extensive growth.
Yes, but most economic growth is achieved by increasing throughputs. And new technological efficiencies usually also rely, at their base, on increasing throughputs. Facebook, for instance, has created this platform that can create "value" for people that didn't exist before all online, that perhaps produces no more pollution than the carbon their servers put out. But all their revenue comes from advertising for actual goods services that do require resource inputs and pollution. And all their profits get invested back in the "real economy" as well. What is an example of a growth in economic value that doesn't require growth in resource inputs or pollution?

 
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Old 05-29-2020, 08:16 AM   #45
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if you need people on the internet to explain what is going wrong in this country right now you are part of the problem

 
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Old 05-29-2020, 08:17 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovary View Post
If you name various social problems in the US--racism, health-care, poverty, whatever--things on most those fronts are getting better, not worse.
lol u trippin in your mind bruh

 
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Old 05-29-2020, 08:28 AM   #47
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please tell me how racism, health-care, and poverty are worse now than they were in 1800, 1850, 1900, 1950, and 2000. again, i'll give you income inequality--that one is particularly bad right now and has been getting worse.

 
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Old 05-29-2020, 09:01 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovary View Post
i'll give you income inequality
thank you for your generosity!

 
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Old 05-29-2020, 09:08 AM   #49
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ovary, please.


 
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Old 05-29-2020, 09:50 AM   #50
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"Everything is awesome!" - Ovary

 
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Old 05-29-2020, 11:18 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovary View Post
What are your examples of arenas in which America is in "decline?" And it can't be things like climate change or pollution that are negatively effecting all countries.
First of all, I'm not convinced that the unfortunate connotations you've personally derived from the word "decline" just magically become a legitimate reason as to why it should not be applied to American society within this thread or in articles written elsewhere. The leap from your fairly strongly implied view of this left as a political other to effectively describing their use of the word as factually inaccurate was a bit far for me, I'm afraid, especially where your main drive on that amounted to stating that healthcare does exist and pointing out famine in a country that celebrated its classification as a developed nation by Trump as recently as February. MyOneAndOnly hadn't even posted when I questioned your vocabulary-based protest.

While you'll acknowledge the "bad news" represented by Donald Trump from NBC's The Apprentice and his powerful grip upon the actual government of your country, I'm not really seeing where you've explained why four to eight years of that couldn't possibly be construed as any sort of a decline in the society most affected by it. It's also worth pointing out that we're having this conversation in:
a) a thread about the pandemic the United States has put up an abysmal response to not befitting of a world leader;
b) the lead up to an election characterized more by partisan divide than anything else;
c) while the news talks of violent rioting sparked by police brutality that has killed yet another black man.

In any case, the decline I'd more specifically been referring to in posts leading up to this one relates to global dominance and the rise of China but cheers for setting some convenient boundaries for my response that would prevent the same kind of comparison you had relied upon above with India. Has using words according to their dictionary definitions always been politically counterproductive in America, by the way?

 
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Old 05-29-2020, 11:37 AM   #52
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children in cages, black men killed every fucking week by the cops, a rampaging thug in the white house and this dipshit asks how we are in decline



EAT A DICK OVARY




EAT


A



DICK

 
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Old 05-29-2020, 11:37 AM   #53
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Did I mention he can eat a dick?

 
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Old 05-29-2020, 11:39 AM   #54
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He should really look into doing public relations work for the Maduro government, directing the voters' attention to how much harder life in Venezuela was at the dawn of civilization.

 
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Old 05-29-2020, 12:17 PM   #55
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Ovary's favorite t shirt


 
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Old 05-29-2020, 12:52 PM   #56
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Since when is arguing whether American is in decline or not equated with "Optimism! Everything is awesome! No problems here" ?

 
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Old 05-29-2020, 01:10 PM   #57
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This argument seems to be more about semantics and lack of defined terms than actual disagreement tbh.

I don't think ovary is making the case at all that things aren't really fucked right now. My interpretation is that he's saying historically speaking, saying America is decaying or in decline at this current moment seems dubious when you consider this is a country founded on genocide, slavery, racial caste systems, colonialism and imperial wars, a country which had a civil war over the right of one human to own another, a great depression, etc etc etc etc. So what exactly are we "decaying" from? If anything what is happening right now seems more like a reversion to the mean.

And I feel like the objections to this are actually more saying, "things are really bad right now so it's not right to point out that things have been really bad before." And then also digging into what "rich country" means, like does it mean a country with a lot of concentrated wealth or does it mean a country where wealth is used to take care of its citizens

*shrug* I'm just not actually sure what everyone is arguing over

 
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Old 05-29-2020, 01:13 PM   #58
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is it ok to shoot K9 officers?

like you have a phat sack of some dank kushage in your sock. and there's a K9 coming straight at you and you just happen to have an elven crossbow.

what do you do?

 
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Old 05-29-2020, 01:14 PM   #59
redbreegull
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Did the Elves have crossbows?

 
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Old 05-29-2020, 01:19 PM   #60
LaBelle
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centrism.netphoria.org

 
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