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Old 04-07-2020, 08:42 PM   #91
redbreegull
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538 – Did Sanders Blow It Or Was the Nomination Always Out Of Reach?

some pretty good points in here. spoiler: Perry Bacon doesn't think the left ever had a very good shot. One big reason he cites is that... well the establishment has moved a lot to the left since 2016.

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Old 04-07-2020, 08:53 PM   #92
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it's not their espoused values. I agree with the progressive values of Sanders and Warren as well. it's the club members

What's your problem with Stein? I can find far worse people in the Democratic party. Trump was a Democrat until recently.

 
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Old 04-07-2020, 10:11 PM   #93
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and no, it is not a respectable position. more people are going to suffer if Trump is re-elected.

you wanna be a real socialist, a real fabian? Do what JS Mill says, and help the greatest number of people. keep the greater evil out.
I don't think it's a given that incremental utilitarianism is the best path to socialism

you may have to crack a few omelettes or suffer a Trump or two

 
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Old 04-07-2020, 10:17 PM   #94
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we also don't so much have the luxury of waiting?

environmental catastrophe looms

 
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Old 04-07-2020, 10:52 PM   #95
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I don't think it's a given that incremental utilitarianism is the best path to socialism
and yet it is the underpinning ideology behind democratic socialism

 
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Old 04-07-2020, 10:52 PM   #96
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What's your problem with Stein?
oof. someone else can take this one I'm tired

 
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Old 04-08-2020, 12:01 AM   #97
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and yet it is the underpinning ideology behind democratic socialism
I think it's one of the underpinning ideologies

but freedom and self-determination for workers are others

 
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Old 04-08-2020, 12:25 AM   #98
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perhaps but the fabians borrowed more from mill than anyone and they were the ancestors of democratic socialism

 
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Old 04-08-2020, 12:43 AM   #99
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when you consider Bernie Sanders to be just a common sense centrist while you're much further left it's hard to see different shades of red

I don't disagree with you that it's morally right to go out and vote against Trump but meh

plus Biden particularly sucks as a human being, he's not Hillary Clinton, he's worse

 
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Old 04-08-2020, 12:48 AM   #100
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the mistake was thinking the US would be anything but enemy occupied territory for leftists

 
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Old 04-08-2020, 12:51 AM   #101
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even on racial issues it's pick the pretty racist candidate over the overtly racist candidate

pshhh I guess whatever

 
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Old 04-08-2020, 12:59 AM   #102
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when you consider Bernie Sanders to be just a common sense centrist while you're much further left it's hard to see different shades of red
lmfao ok beto o'rourke guy

 
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Old 04-08-2020, 01:17 AM   #103
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don't get me wrong, I support any Dem running against a Republican. But pretending you are "much further left" than Bernie Sanders is clownish. beto o'rourke is one step to the left of joe biden

 
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Old 04-08-2020, 01:18 AM   #104
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he came out p strong for universal healthcare at least

central to his campaign was rejecting Corporate PAC money

I was enthusiastic about that campaign

his presidential pivot was revealing of his actual character I suppose

 
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Old 04-08-2020, 02:03 AM   #105
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he was always center left, he just looked amazing compared to Cruz. I still like him. Shit is contextual. Too much of the Democratic party is still center left to disown all center leftists. Again, the far left lives in an internet bubble

more than half of the seats gained in the 2018 congressional cleanup by Dems were by moderates. it's still a big tent party. that's what makes it powerful. fuck I am just so done with "progressives" today I want to punch someone in the face

 
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Old 04-08-2020, 04:32 AM   #106
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when you consider Bernie Sanders to be just a common sense centrist while you're much further left it's hard to see different shades of red

 
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Old 04-08-2020, 06:28 AM   #107
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he was always center left, he just looked amazing compared to Cruz. I still like him. Shit is contextual. Too much of the Democratic party is still center left to disown all center leftists. Again, the far left lives in an internet bubble

more than half of the seats gained in the 2018 congressional cleanup by Dems were by moderates. it's still a big tent party. that's what makes it powerful. fuck I am just so done with "progressives" today I want to punch someone in the face
wheres the space in this tent for actual progressives?

+The fuck you lose to Donald Trump if your party is powerful

 
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Old 04-08-2020, 10:32 AM   #108
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Bernie isn't running anymore!

 
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Old 04-08-2020, 10:41 AM   #109
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Damn, breeg's gonna be even more steamed now when I vote for Sanders in the general

 
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Old 04-08-2020, 11:17 AM   #110
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Well, absolutely fuck this country. Imagine voting against M4A I mean jesus fuck. I’m writing him in anyway. Indiana’s going red anyway.

jesus fucking christ

 
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Old 04-08-2020, 11:20 AM   #111
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just ban 'em all, RamForever27. ban the whole fucking lot of 'em!

 
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Old 04-08-2020, 11:20 AM   #112
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I'm voting Machina this election, & I don't care who knows it

 
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Old 04-08-2020, 11:20 AM   #113
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when we are finally actually allowed to vote in 2021, that is

jk

 
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Old 04-08-2020, 11:22 AM   #114
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I would like to find someone who really likes Biden's hazily defined policies and can articulate why, but I have been unable to so far

His entire support base seems to like him because he's not Trump and we somehow all collectively decided he's the most electable despite him not standing out in any way shape or form

 
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Old 04-08-2020, 11:23 AM   #115
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I'm happy I don't have to choose between trump and biden, Jesus Christ

 
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Old 04-08-2020, 11:23 AM   #116
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I would like to find someone who really likes Biden's hazily defined policies and can articulate why, but I have been unable to so far

His entire support base seems to like him because he's not Trump and we somehow all collectively decided he's the most electable despite him not standing out in any way shape or form
exactly. he's gonna lose, yes? 4 more years of grump

 
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Old 04-08-2020, 11:25 AM   #117
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I read on a graffitti once that Jesus was right.

Not a good alternative either, it seems.

 
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Old 04-08-2020, 11:27 AM   #118
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exactly. he's gonna lose, yes? 4 more years of grump


Absolutely

Trump probably has around 50% of the country anyway. And now a sizable amount of democrats are pissed off

Not to mention the whole 'being a president thru a crisis helps your numbers'

 
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Old 04-08-2020, 11:33 AM   #119
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I read on a graffitti once that Jesus was right.

Not a good alternative either, it seems.
Was the graffiti artist kind enough to provide an answer to the question about what Jesus exactly was right though? I'd like to know.

 
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Old 04-08-2020, 11:33 AM   #120
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i'm not a conspiracy fuzzyroes but it is peculiar how the most recent two notably-bad presidencies have incurred such a crisis

 
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