Netphoria Message Board


Go Back   Netphoria Message Board > Archives > General Chat Archive
Register Netphoria's Amazon.com Link Members List Mark Forums Read

 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-17-2010, 05:42 PM   #1
Catherine Wheel
Banned
 
Location: Washington, D.C.
Posts: 6,321
Default positive universe and negative universe

A friend at work has this theory that there is a so called positive universe and so called negative universe that exist. The positive universe is what is tangible / physical. The negative universe is invisible. It is ideas, concepts, and thoughts. He also believes that everything from the negative universe manifests itself in some way in the positive universe. So the negative universe casts a shadow in the positive universe. I disagreed with him because I dont' think the subconscious mind always manifests itself at all in a physical or tangible way. What do you think?

 
Catherine Wheel is offline
Old 11-17-2010, 05:47 PM   #2
bahnzah
Apocalyptic Poster
 
bahnzah's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,308
Default

that's not a theory. it's a hypothesis.

 
bahnzah is offline
Old 11-17-2010, 05:58 PM   #3
Caine Walker
Braindead
 
Caine Walker's Avatar
 
Posts: 15,479
Default

hey catherine wheel's back

 
Caine Walker is offline
Old 11-17-2010, 06:14 PM   #4
soniclovenoize
Minion of Satan
 
soniclovenoize's Avatar
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 5,507
Default

http://doubleoduck2.tripod.com/fraz1.png

 
soniclovenoize is offline
Old 11-17-2010, 06:25 PM   #5
EyesOfAJackal
Apocalyptic Poster
 
EyesOfAJackal's Avatar
 
Location: Sarasota, FL; San Antonio, TX
Posts: 1,139
Default

Sounds like Plato's concept of Forms

 
EyesOfAJackal is offline
Old 11-17-2010, 06:31 PM   #6
Mooney
Socialphobic
 
Mooney's Avatar
 
Location: halifax
Posts: 14,821
Default

i believe current quantum theory postulates a 'multiverse', where every possible history of the universe is existing simultaneously. i just bought hawking and mlodinow's 'the grand design' today, coincidentally. i'll get back to you.
__________________

 
Mooney is offline
Old 11-17-2010, 06:38 PM   #7
dean_r_koontz
Apocalyptic Poster
 
Posts: 12,657
Default

the multiverse theory is an interpretation of quantum mechanical events, if that's what you mean by postulation then it's correct but there are other interpretations as well.

 
dean_r_koontz is offline
Old 11-17-2010, 06:40 PM   #8
dean_r_koontz
Apocalyptic Poster
 
Posts: 12,657
Default

also that book is supposed to be full of hype and garbage. if you want to REALLY impress people and avoid smartasses like me you're going to have to do better brosef.

 
dean_r_koontz is offline
Old 11-17-2010, 06:48 PM   #9
Mooney
Socialphobic
 
Mooney's Avatar
 
Location: halifax
Posts: 14,821
Default

i'll never be able to impress people by my intellect. any non-fiction i read has to be written in the vein of '____ for dummies'.
__________________

 
Mooney is offline
Old 11-17-2010, 07:01 PM   #10
dean_r_koontz
Apocalyptic Poster
 
Posts: 12,657
Default

i suppose it's a good overview of different theories but maybe not so great at giving a clear, logically consistent image in ones mind about the basics of theoretical physics. that's what i found to be frustrating with one of Hawkins earlier books when i tried to understand more about the subject.

 
dean_r_koontz is offline
Old 11-17-2010, 07:02 PM   #11
dean_r_koontz
Apocalyptic Poster
 
Posts: 12,657
Default

not that i understand much about the basics of theoretical physics or even know what that would be but you know...

 
dean_r_koontz is offline
Old 11-17-2010, 07:25 PM   #12
ATS
Apocalyptic Poster
 
ATS's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,324
Default

i have a theory that the universe is shaped like a tear drop falling through space

i dont have any numbers to back it up but i know im right about this

 
ATS is offline
Old 11-17-2010, 07:28 PM   #13
EyesOfAJackal
Apocalyptic Poster
 
EyesOfAJackal's Avatar
 
Location: Sarasota, FL; San Antonio, TX
Posts: 1,139
Default

I don't think what Catherine is describing sounds like those physics theories. Which, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Richard Dawkins promote some 'multiverse' theory to try and explain how all the physical constants of our universe seem fine-tuned to support human life?

Anyway, what Catherine is talking about doesn't sound like physics so much as philosophy and psychology.

Plato said that abstract "Forms" existed (maybe in heaven? or at least not on earth, somewhere that I seem to remember seemed like a 'negative universe') and that these were the perfection or ideal of various objects and concepts of which things in our tangible universe were mere (poor) reflections. For example, there was the Form of 'beauty', of which all beautiful things in our world, no matter how grand, are mere reflections of that ultimate beauty; there was a Form of 'chair', of which objects in this universe imitated, of 'humanity' or 'fellowship' and so on. I think later Christians interpreted this in light of God reflecting the Form of love and so on.

 
EyesOfAJackal is offline
Old 11-17-2010, 09:06 PM   #14
28if
Apocalyptic Poster
 
28if's Avatar
 
Location: yeah seriously i think we've more than established a consensus on reality, it's not that abstract.
Posts: 3,454
Default

as Jackal said, that's almost exactly Plato's theory of forms. Which only really sortof makes sense when you think about it linguistically.

 
28if is offline
Old 11-17-2010, 09:19 PM   #15
redbreegull
Just Hook it to My Veins!
 
redbreegull's Avatar
 
Location: WILD BOY
Posts: 31,976
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catherine Wheel View Post
A friend at work has this theory that there is a so called positive universe and so called negative universe that exist. The positive universe is what is tangible / physical. The negative universe is invisible. It is ideas, concepts, and thoughts. He also believes that everything from the negative universe manifests itself in some way in the positive universe. So the negative universe casts a shadow in the positive universe. I disagreed with him because I dont' think the subconscious mind always manifests itself at all in a physical or tangible way. What do you think?
indeed this is quasi-Platonic. Also seems a bit like the idea of entelechy, since he thinks the shadow universe affects the one we live in.

Yeah, and this doesn't really sound like physics. Both you and your friend's idea posit that there is some reality beyond the material (whether they cross over or not).

edit: well maybe not entelechy specifically. Apparently that is a biological idea only.

 
redbreegull is offline
Old 11-17-2010, 09:32 PM   #16
duovamp
Brazilian Blouselord
 
duovamp's Avatar
 
Location: heavy metal pool party
Posts: 35,643
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mooney View Post
i believe current quantum theory postulates a 'multiverse', where every possible history of the universe is existing simultaneously. i just bought hawking and mlodinow's 'the grand design' today, coincidentally. i'll get back to you.
Been reading it at work. He re-used one of my favorite examples from A Brief History of Time though, which kind of pissed me off - it's about the man kicking a stone.

 
duovamp is offline
Old 11-18-2010, 01:56 AM   #17
Starla
*****
 
Starla's Avatar
 
Posts: 15,778
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catherine Wheel View Post
I disagreed with him because I dont' think the subconscious mind always manifests itself at all in a physical or tangible way. What do you think?
It manifests itself subconsciously in our behaviors.

 
Starla is offline
Old 11-18-2010, 01:58 AM   #18
Trotskilicious
Banned
 
Trotskilicious's Avatar
 
Location: I believe in the transcendental qualities of friendship.
Posts: 39,602
Default

are the reptilians from the positive or negative universe

 
Trotskilicious is offline
Old 11-18-2010, 02:03 AM   #19
Starla
*****
 
Starla's Avatar
 
Posts: 15,778
Default

It would be both since they have the ability to travel between the two dimensions.

 
Starla is offline
Old 11-18-2010, 02:04 AM   #20
Trotskilicious
Banned
 
Trotskilicious's Avatar
 
Location: I believe in the transcendental qualities of friendship.
Posts: 39,602
Default

oh of course

 
Trotskilicious is offline
Old 11-18-2010, 02:05 AM   #21
redbreegull
Just Hook it to My Veins!
 
redbreegull's Avatar
 
Location: WILD BOY
Posts: 31,976
Default

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2530/...69d77e3eb2.jpg

 
redbreegull is offline
Old 11-18-2010, 02:07 AM   #22
Trotskilicious
Banned
 
Trotskilicious's Avatar
 
Location: I believe in the transcendental qualities of friendship.
Posts: 39,602
Default

BIZZARO BIZARRO

 
Trotskilicious is offline
Old 11-18-2010, 09:01 AM   #23
Mooney
Socialphobic
 
Mooney's Avatar
 
Location: halifax
Posts: 14,821
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by duovamp View Post
Been reading it at work. He re-used one of my favorite examples from A Brief History of Time though, which kind of pissed me off - it's about the man kicking a stone.
Ouch, I refute it thus!

 
Mooney is offline
Old 11-18-2010, 03:30 PM   #24
Mooney
Socialphobic
 
Mooney's Avatar
 
Location: halifax
Posts: 14,821
Arrow

Quote:
Originally Posted by duovamp View Post
A Brief History of Time
i'm sure you've realized by now that 'the grand design' is essentially 'an even briefer history of time' - fifty pages less on black holes, and a page and a half added on M theory. this wouldn't have been a big deal had i not read both previous versions fairly recently.

i polished off this book in less than a day which is a big feat for me - generally it takes me a week or two to get through a book.

 
Mooney is offline
Old 11-18-2010, 06:14 PM   #25
ilikeplanets
Socialphobic
 
ilikeplanets's Avatar
 
Location: Ignore List
Posts: 14,094
Default

I don't think there would be another universe for this..perhaps just a simple next dimension. A universe is a bit involved..

 
ilikeplanets is offline
Old 11-18-2010, 06:15 PM   #26
ilikeplanets
Socialphobic
 
ilikeplanets's Avatar
 
Location: Ignore List
Posts: 14,094
Default

Btw strangely enough I just picked up A Brief History of Time. Maybe I will be swayed away from all my existing opinions upon finishing it.

 
ilikeplanets is offline
Old 11-18-2010, 08:14 PM   #27
Mooney
Socialphobic
 
Mooney's Avatar
 
Location: halifax
Posts: 14,821
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ilikeplanets View Post
I don't think there would be another universe for this..perhaps just a simple next dimension. A universe is a bit involved..
from what i gather, the theory suggests there are an infinite amount of other universes co-existing - few or none of which have any semblance or similar laws to our own.

considering that theologians' only remaining argument for intelligent design is the 'fine-tuned universe' theory, hawkin's anthropic multiverse seems like it was spawned out of trying to dismiss this.

give a million monkeys a million typewriters and eventually out pops our universe.

 
Mooney is offline
Old 11-18-2010, 08:23 PM   #28
Mooney
Socialphobic
 
Mooney's Avatar
 
Location: halifax
Posts: 14,821
Default

just saying that if it took religious folk almost two thousand years to accept the first notion that the earth wasn't the center of the universe we're going to have to do better.
__________________

 
Mooney is offline
Old 11-18-2010, 10:33 PM   #29
ilikeplanets
Socialphobic
 
ilikeplanets's Avatar
 
Location: Ignore List
Posts: 14,094
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mooney View Post
from what i gather, the theory suggests there are an infinite amount of other universes co-existing - few or none of which have any semblance or similar laws to our own.

considering that theologians' only remaining argument for intelligent design is the 'fine-tuned universe' theory, hawkin's anthropic multiverse seems like it was spawned out of trying to dismiss this.

give a million monkeys a million typewriters and eventually out pops our universe.
What theory are you talking about? Catherine Wheel's?

I am completely unsold on the idea of a separate universe, as I conceive the universe to be so encompassing that there can be nothing outside of it. As far as dimensions, however, I am convinced that there are a great many of them, each with their own laws of physics, among other properties of which we can't even begin to define since we are hopelessly trapped our own. I think we are agreeing about the concepts here, but not on the word used to define them.

As far as the possibility of a dimension/universe containing the opposite/negative of our own personal feelings, I think that is a bit too selfish to believe. There is so much excess out there that human beings cannot measure, but I don't feel that each conscious being has that type of shadow urging them to misbehave. That actually sounds more religious than scientific to me.

I'm more prone to believing in a dimension where the opposite of every outcome is true..to me that would be more of a "negative" or "anti" universe. I have not read Hawkings' book yet, but to be sure most information on this topic is speculative anyway...to my dismay.

 
ilikeplanets is offline
Old 11-18-2010, 11:21 PM   #30
Catherine Wheel
Banned
 
Location: Washington, D.C.
Posts: 6,321
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Starla View Post
It manifests itself subconsciously in our behaviors.
What if a person is able to suppress their subconscious so nothing comes to the surface? Doesn't that sometimes occur?

 
Catherine Wheel is offline
 


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is On
Google


Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2012 I'm Hardcore General Chat Archive 134 09-20-2012 05:06 PM
The Happy Thoughts Thread theFoulLasagna General Chat Archive 25 10-12-2007 08:43 PM
The problem with aging stars 7shadesofblack Pumpkins Archive 75 09-17-2007 07:14 PM
skipgo is a moderately attractive female neopryn General Chat Archive 169 08-08-2007 02:16 PM
This is an ask me thread KrazeeStacee General Chat Archive 81 05-18-2007 12:11 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:29 PM.




Smashing Pumpkins, Alternative Music
& General Discussion Message Board and Forums
www.netphoria.org - Copyright 1998-2020